[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference rusure::math

Title:Mathematics at DEC
Moderator:RUSURE::EDP
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2083
Total number of notes:14613

1351.0. "7 come 11" by HANNAH::OSMAN (see HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240) Fri Dec 07 1990 11:11

Start with any real number n.  Perform:

	7 - 11/n

Repeat with the result, that is, dividing it into 11 and subtracting from 7.

The questions:

o	Is the result approaching a particular limit ?

o	What if you start with a different n ?  Can it approach a different
	limit ?

o	Maybe some n's don't produce limits at all ?


T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1351.1Hyperbolic Mobius transformationALLVAX::JROTHSaturday alley up to Sunday streetFri Dec 07 1990 12:5811
    This is a hyperbolic fractional linear transformation of the complex
    plane with fixed points at (7 +/- sqrt(5))/2, about 2.38197 and 4.61803.

    By a suitable transformation, these can be sent to zero and infinity
    respectively, when the action of the transformation is a simple
    scaling by a real number larger than 1.

    Thus, any point not equal to 2.38197... will be attracted to the
    other fixed point.

    - Jim
1351.2Keeps him off the streets and away from shoppersVMSDEV::HALLYBThe Smart Money was on GoliathFri Dec 07 1990 14:571
    Eric playing with his calculator again...
1351.3why the assymetry of the other rootHANNAH::OSMANsee HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240Fri Dec 07 1990 16:5114
If I understand your "thus" sentence, you're saying that

	7 - 11/n

is associated with the TWO numbers (7�sqrt(5))/2, and that any number we
choose for n other than (7-sqrt(5))/2 will produce values which when plugged
back in produce values migrating towards (7+sqrt(5))/2.

Why such assymetry ?  I would expect that some n's would tend towards one
number, and some towards the other.  Why do most numbers migrate only to
the LARGER value ?

/Eric-using-math-as-his-drug-of-choice
1351.4TRACE::GILBERTOwnership ObligatesFri Dec 07 1990 17:015
>    Thus, any point not equal to 2.38197... will be attracted to the
>    other fixed point.

Well, points like 0, 11/7, 77/38, 418/189, ... may be "attracted" to
that fixed point, but there's an obstacle in the way.  :^)
1351.5No exceptional points (except the repeller)ALLVAX::JROTHSaturday alley up to Sunday streetFri Dec 07 1990 18:1915
           <<< Note 1351.4 by TRACE::GILBERT "Ownership Obligates" >>>

>    Thus, any point not equal to 2.38197... will be attracted to the
>    other fixed point.

>Well, points like 0, 11/7, 77/38, 418/189, ... may be "attracted" to
>that fixed point, but there's an obstacle in the way.  :^)

    Nice try, but you're wrong.  Where does that "obstacle" get mapped to
    the next iteration?

    Remember that the point at infinity is just as "nice" as any other
    point as far as fractional linear transformations are concerned.

    - Jim
1351.6clarificationALLVAX::JROTHSaturday alley up to Sunday streetFri Dec 07 1990 18:4756
    Re .3

    In general, consider the conformal automorphisms of the Riemann sphere

	    a z + b
	w = -------
	    c z + d

    This will have one or two fixed points by solving the quadratic

	    a z + b
	z = -------
	    c z + d

    Suppose the fixed points are distinct, say p and q.

    Then by a change of variables we can send q to zero and p to infinity,
    where the transformation takes the simple form

	w' = k z'


	     w - q	     z - q
        w' = -----,	z' = -----
	     w - p	     z - p


    In your case, k is a real constant greater than zero.  Does the assymetry
    make sense now?

    If k is real the transformation is hyperbolic and the orbits flow from
    one pole to the other like longitude lines.  If k is complex with
    magnitude 1, the transformation is elliptic and the orbits are latitude
    circles.  Otherwise the orbits are loxodromic curves on the Riemann
    sphere (like the loxodromes from navigation.)

    If p = q, the transformation is parabolic; sending the fixed point to
    infinity the transformation is equivalent to a translation w' = z' + k.

    Another way to see this is to look at nonsingular 2 by 2 complex
    matrices modulo scalar multiples of the identity: the projective
    general linear group PGL(2,C).  Then the fixed points correspond to
    the eigenvectors.

    Yet another geometric point of view is to look at the projective
    transformations of 3 space that respect the unit sphere.  These are
    those 4 by 4 matrices common to 3D computer graphics that satisfy a kind
    of orthogonality, preserving the form x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - w^2 = 0,
    the homogenous equation of the sphere.

    These transformations send planes to planes, and planes cut the sphere in
    circles.  There is an isomorphism between this class of 4 by 4 real
    matrices and the 2 by 2 complex matrices above which you can establish
    by stereographic projection of the complex plane to the sphere.

    - Jim
1351.7A simple explaination for .1HPSTEK::XIAIn my beginning is my end.Wed Jan 09 1991 13:5113
    7 - 11/x = 7 - 11/(7-11/x) ==>
    
    1/x = x/(7x-11) ==>
    
    x^2 - 7x + 11 = 0 ==>
    
         7 + sqrt(5)            7 - sqrt(5)
    x = -------------   or x = ------------------
              2                      5
    
    Hence, the limits if they exist.
    
    Eugene