Conference rocks::weight_control

    Complex carbs used to be known in common language as "starch".
    
    Complex carbohydrates are found in grains and vegetables.  So bread,
    pasta, cereal, rice, pototoes, beans, peas, corn etc are all high in
    complex carbohydrates.
    
    Simple carbohydrates are sugars, and are found in large quanities in 
    fruits and, of course, sugar.
    
    Diana

    SOunds simple. Thanks
    
    Now to "Why eating more complex carbs (within limits I am sure) is
    better for weight loss?". Not sure "more" compared to what but I have
    seen this reference in more than 1 articles. 
    
    The number of starches/breads in a WW plan are never enough for me - I
    am starch-lover :-)
    
    Shaila

    I was jsut browsing for the 1st time in the FLEX notesfile and saw
    references to complex carbs, lo-fat. Since flour is considered simple
    carbs (right?) white bread is not complex carb? Sorry for being so
    ignorant but I GOTTA KNOW!
    
    Shaila

    No, white flour, as all flours, is primarily complex carbohydrates. 
    But it isn't nutritionally as good as whole wheat flour (and all whole
    grains) because it has less nutrients, less fiber and less protein. 
    But, calorically and carbohydrately it is more or less the same.
    
    One reason a diet high in complex carbohydrates is good is that
    carbohydrates (both simple and complex) as well as protein have 4
    calories/gram, whereas fat has 9 calories/gram - so the same amount of
    food provides fewer calories if you eat less fat.  A good way to eat
    less fat is to replace high fat foods with high carb foods - and high
    complex carb foods tend to be more filling and substantial and
    nutritious.  Complex carbs are digested more slowly than simples carbs,
    so they provide a more steady stream of energy, instead of the high-low
    cycle that can happen with sugars (mostly with processed sucrose [ie:
    table sugar] but also fructose [fruit sugars] and other simple carbs.)
    So if you eat more complex carbs you have more energy and are hungry
    less often.
    
    The figures I have heard say that 55-60% of your calorie intake should
    come from carbs, 12-15% from protein and 25-30% (max) from fats.
    
    D!

    Thanks a buzzzzzzzzilion :-)

    It's not just calories.
    
    New evidence suggest that it may be next to impossible for carbohy-
    drates (both simple and complex) to be converted into fats in the human
    body.
    
    If that turns out to be the case (and it may be, chemically, fats and
    carbs are failry dissimilar)  then, only dietary fat can cause you to
    ever gain body fat.

	Interesting, Mike.

	What I just read (and was taught in a course two weeks later) 
	was that carbohydrate intake that is in excess of your body's needs 
	would be converted to body fat, but that it requires energy for your 
	body to do the conversion.  So, your body actually uses calories to store
	the excess carbohydrates as fat.  (You may actually use some calories
	to store excess ingested fat as body fat, but I think the carbo 
	conversion used some 30% more calories).

	I'd like a pointer to the "new research" if you have one.  I'll
	try to remember where I read the above.

	D!, your guidelines for daily intake are pretty close, although	
	I believe ADA recommendation is 10-12% protein, not 12-15%.

	Karen

    I finally visited the local library and got some books on nutrition to
    better understand this debate about low-this, high-that diets. I did
    read that excess complex carbs (excess = f(intake versus output in
    terms of energy expensed in exercise)) are converted to fat and that
    doing this some calories are used up.
    
    Shaila

    Mike, if you have any information on the carb->fat research you
    mentioned, I also would appreciate reading about it.
    
    Seems to me (and I'm no nutritional scientist, for sure) that even if
    carbs can't be converted in to fat, it's still not a good idea to eat
    more carb calories than your body consumes, because if there are excees
    carb-calories then fat-calories (which every diet must contain in
    *some* quantities) will *all* be "in excess" and converted in to fat. 
    
    Maybe the impossibility of carb->fat is only "useful" if you eat a
    virtually fat free diet...which has it's own dangers.
    
    D!

.7> I'd like a pointer to the "new research" if you have one.
    
    Oh boy, that might be next to impossible.  It was probably from the
    Harvard Medical School or Edell or COnsumer Reports Health Letters.
    It was in that format, not a magazine.
    
    Problem is, I saw it maybe 8 or 9 months ago, so it's long gone.
    
    These things usually appear in one place and then all over the place 
    when they're proven (or they disappear forever without a peep when
    disproven).
    
    I'll keep my eyes open.

    
    I have a complex carb question.  Actually two.  The first is, why
    aren't there any breakdowns of %simple and %complex carbohydrates? 
    It's not even in the nutrition almanac, and if not there, where?
    
    Second question is: I've read that fruits contain a
    significant amount of complex carbos in addition to the fructose that
    makes them taste so sweet.  E.g. apples and banannas are supposed to
    have a fair amount of complex carbos despite the sweetness.  Does
    anyone here have the facts about this? 
    
       /jim

    Please don't be offended at a guess, but my guess is that if there is
    more than one process to metabolize a carbo it is complex. Sugars have
    one process, starches have at least two (the first being into sugar).
    Perhaps the two types of fiber add more processes. 
    
    Along those lines, it's feasible to assume apples and bananas have a 
    starch and/or fiber content.
    
    Sound right?
    
    Amy

    
    yes, that sounds right to me.  That's what I figure also.  I just wish
    I could find a source that lists how much simple vs complex carbos
    foods contain.  I recently noticed, e.g., that raisins are very carbo-
    rich.  But then I wondered if this was mostly simple sugar; is it a
    good source of carbos or not?  I don't know and none of my reference
    books or calorie counters offer any information about this.
    
    I happened to notice that Total cereal now puts #grams simple carbos,
    #grams fiber, and total #grams carbos on their label.  Maybe they have
    for some time.  I wish more products were labelled that way.
    
    /jim

    Another source of the information is in the ingredients list.
    Ingredients are listed in order of the amount in the food (highest to
    lowest). This is probably based on volume. Look to see if sugars are
    high on the list. This is not always reliable because there could be
    many forms of sugars in small doses (corn syrup, fructose, even
    sorbital which metabolizes like sugar, only slower). But if you see
    one or several of these sugars before or directly after any grains or
    other complex carbs are listed, it's best to avoid. One of the more
    confusing packages may be tomato products (sauce, paste), which are 
    naturally high in carbos; there could be extra sugar snuck into the
    recipe. I would think that with the program you're on, your main goal
    would be to avoid those fat supporting sugars.
    
    I'm kind of lucky where I live, there's not a lot of packaged food like
    I'm used to back home. I buy fresh food and I know what's in it. I sure
    miss the convenience of Healthy Choice dinners, though.
    
    As for the raisins, since they are only grapes without the water, treat
    them as you would fruit. I learned in Weight Watchers that 20 small
    grapes is one portion of fruit, as is two small plums and one small
    apple. So a tablespoon of raisins is probably 20 grapes. If it helps at
    all, Weight Watchers recommends about half the amount of fruit to the
    amount of breads. They seem to be keeping up with the latest nutrition
    trends and adjust their program each year with the newest information.
    
    Hope that helps!
    
    Amy

    check the barnes and noble nutrition section.  i remembered seeing at
    least one food-value books that contained that info...
    
    Diana