Conference rocks::weight_control

    Donna,
    
    You made so many good points I don't know where to begin to respond,
    but I must ask you a question:  how did you manage to get "inside
    my head" when we have never met???
    
    Seriously, I have the same mixed feelings about my weight.  I hate
    being "fat" and not liking what I look like and feel like.  I am
    having marital problems right now (and I have only been married
    for 15 months) and the other day I found myself saying to myself
    (although not out loud--I truly applaud you for having the guts
    to do that, it must have felt good) I might be leaving my husband,
    my parents are retiring and moving away, I feel so alone and I am
    even "losing" myself--as soon as the thought was in my head I wondered
    what I was thinking about, whether or not I was crazy.  I have been
    dieting since the end of October and have lost 31 pounds.  I have
    at least 34 more to go.  I have always been fat and for all of the
    pain I guess it was comfortable dealing (or NOT dealing) with the
    world that way.
    
    Hang in there, maybe the more friends we make, the less we will
    have to use fat as a protection.  Let me know what you think, and
    how you are doing.  I have also tried to make other people and
    situations take the "blame/credit" for my fat.  Wouldn't it serve
    my husband right if I went off my diet because I am angry at him?
    I'll show them--I'll eat myself to death and then they will be sorry.
     Of course, I also want to get thin to spite them but unfortunately
    getting thin takes so much longer and eating gives immediate
    gratification.  
    
    Good luck.  I have never exercised in my life but I have an exercise
    bicycle and I have been riding 4 miles a day and trying to stick
    to this diet.  Let's hope we can both do it this time...
    
    Fondly,
    
    Sylvia
    

Donna, Sylvia,

would you two mind if I'd join you?

I have exact the same problems as you, although it never came to my mind that
I might think I might loose "protection" if I lost some weight. I just know
that there is some kind of "schizophreny" (sp.?) in my mind. (Pls see my
66.28 for more details).

It's so bad if you look at yourself and see that you have to loose and while
thinking about it you just eat and eat and .... Yesterday I thought, maybe I
have to *tell* it to somebody so that it's kind of official, so I told my
fiance that I started dieting and wanna loose at least 22 pounds. He said,
good idea because he saw some picture of me (about 6 years old) where I weighted
44 (!) pounds less, but he stated that it would be also fine with him if I 
stayed the way I am. Good motivation, one should think!

And five min. ago, I just had another pice of chocolate and I'm already
thinking about the next one at home this afternoon. Thinking about this
while another part of my mind thinks about loosing weight!!! Isn't that
schizophren? (sp)

So, maybe it'll help if we exchange thoughts and experiences or try to 
motivate each other? 

Hoping to hear from you,
Billie

    I don't think it's schizophrenia -- that is a lot more complicated
    disease involving many other factors.
    
    I think what you're describing is a disease I have, and it's called
    compulsive overeating.  The only way I can be in remission from it is
    to choose each day to eat in a way that does not further my disease.
    
    For me, the good news is that once I got sugar out of my system, and
    made a decision to live without it one day at a time, I started to have
    reasonably sane responses to most other foods.  Sugar is a drug for me. 
    When I eat it, it runs my life for me and keeps my compulsive
    overeating going all by itself.
    
    Most alcoholics can't have just one drink, or they are off and running
    with their disease.  I can't have occasional sugar, or the same is true
    for me.  And up until a year ago, I would have sworn that life wasn't
    worth living without sugar -- the truth is, for me, it's so much better
    without sugar I can't believe it, but that's how addiction works.  You
    become a slave to your drug.
    
    Holly
    

    I too am in the same boat as the rest of you.  I have about 70 lbs to
    lose (I have recently lost 10) and have been trying it seems like
    forever to lose it.  I've joined Weight Watchers time and time again
    and can never seem to "stick" to it.  I've about decided not to go "on
    a diet" per say, but to try to start eating healthy and start a DAILY
    exercise program.  I can't exercise 3 or 4 times a week, it's got to be
    6 or 7 times a week or it doesn't seem to get my metabolism going at a
    good speed.  I'm trying to make good food choices in everything I
    chose.  I'm going to lunch with one of my "thin" friends today and I've
    already decided to have a chef salad.  My big problem is not sugar
    (candy, cakes, etc.) it's meat and potatoes.  I could eat a 10 oz.
    steak and a 8 oz. baked potato with all the toppings, daily.  I have
    been trying to incorporate more fish and chicken and turkey into my
    diet and leave the fatty stuff (butter, sour cream, cheese) alone. 
    I've been using Weight Watchers margarine and cheese and trying to
    limit myself on that.  I know I can do it, but for some reason, I don't
    really want to or I would.  We bought a house in December with a hot
    tub and I've been wearing shorts and a t-shirt when I get in it because
    I'm too embarassed to be seen in a bathing suit (not to mention my old
    bathing suits no longer fit!!)  I won't go to the Water Parks (with the
    water slides and swimming pools, etc) in the summer, although I love
    the water, because I'm too embarassed to be seen.  My motivation is
    high for about a week or two and then it's gone.  I can't figure out
    what the problem is.  I've been waiting on day light savings time
    (which starts this weekend) so I could start walking EVERY night after
    work.  I hope I can keep it up.  Maybe we can all help each other.
    
    Virginia

    .2--read .3--re: compulsive overeating and sugar addiction.  Your not
    crazy for goodness sakes.  Just addicted to food like the rest of us.  
    So don't be too hard on yourself.
    
    .2 -- re: telling someone that I'm on a diet--my problem is that that's
    what I ALWAYS do.  So this time I'm not telling anyone how serious I am
    (except in these notes files)  The only reason I'm telling God and
    everyone in this file is because I know that I'll get support if I need
    it.  Not sad looks of disappointment that make me feel like sh**t when
    I go off my diet.
    
    And speaking of cheating on my diet, I haven't so far, but I am going
    to allow one day per week to eat foods that I really like. (by the way,
    I've lost 1 #!!!!!)  The key point to that is to eat small amounts of
    the foods I like (ie. half a candy bar).  One day of controlled
    cheating will not put any more weight on me.  I wont lose a pound or
    what ever for that day, but at least I can enjoy myself and not feel so
    deprived.  Just SMALL amounts of these foods one day per week I feel
    will keep me sane (so to speak), and will keep me on my diet because I
    know that I will be able to have the particular food I'm craving.  I
    may have to wait 4 days , but I can have it.
    
    I guess what I'm saying re: telling people that your going on a diet is
    this:  Do the OPPOSITE of what you normally do. After all, what you've
    been doing in the past hasn't worked (at least for me) I personally 
    feel too much pressure when someone KNOWS I'm on a diet.  
    
    And also re: .2 comments on snacking on chocolate.  This week when you
    buy your groceries buy some fruit and veggies.  Prepare them on the
    weekend (cutting them up if needed)  Bring them to work to snack on.  I
    also try to keep busy.  I forget about concentrating on what I can't
    have if I'm busy doing something else.
    
    Only have a small amount of chocolate if you get to the point where you
    HAVE to have a piece.  I personally can't stop with just one or two
    bites so I've stopped eating it.  You know, I hadn't drank a regular
    Dr. Pepper in so long (been drinking diet soda's) that when I tried one
    the other day it nearly killed me.  I cant believe I hated the taste of
    all that sugar and carbonization (sp.)  I'm also getting to the point
    where I don't like the diet ones either.  (I guess that's good)
    
    Get rid of all your fattening foods.  Weight Watchers has a great line
    of desserts.  Chocolate cakes, etc.  They are great.
    
    I have tried fixing foods (even simple recipies) for myself on the
    weekends over and over and over and over.  My problem is that I love
    veggies and fruit and everything else too much.  I can eat a ton of it.
    So, this time around (at least for this week) I am buying the Weight
    Watchers frozen dinners and desserts, and of course a reasonable amount
    of fruits and veggies.  I am counting calories, and making sure that I
    get veggies, fruits, protein (meats), bread (not too much) every day so
    that my diet will be balanced. Also making sure that I drink plenty of
    water.
    
    Take one day at a time.  Thats what I'm doing.  If I need support I'll
    be sure to let everyone know. I try to get my mind on other things than
    eating (very hard to do sometimes). When I think about food all the
    time I'm more prone to cheat on my diet.
    
    re: .1 -- Hello!  You seam to have the same kinds of thoughts and
    situations that I have.  I guess we are mind readers when it comes to
    experiences.  Hope I'm not getting too personal, but re: breaking up
    with your husband.  I've been there.  That feeling came around after
    Mark and I had been married a little over a year.  Just stick it out. 
    Get a hobby (crafts).  The feeling will pass.  After all, marrage is
    effort.  Not giving up when emotions are high.  Try to work things out.
    
    And re: .3 -- thank you for your reply!  I was fixing to write the same
    things you said.  Thanks for caring enough to reply and help us.
    
    Well, talk to you later.  
    
    
    Donna
    
    

    Donna,
    
    You are not getting too personal, I brought the subject up because
    I was looking for input.  Thank you so much for your words of
    encouragement.  We are going to try to work it out and if we can't,
    we are going for counseling to try even harder to work it out. 
    
    Meanwhile, my other problems should be getting smaller.  My clothes
    are all getting loose except for those clothes in my closet I can't
    figure out when I bought because I don't ever remember being that
    thin!!!
    
    I will try a hobby, and I already feel like I have made a new friend.
    
    Thank you.
    
    Sylvia
    

    Like everybody else my problem with food came from fear.  Fear of ever
    being in a situation like my marriage again, fear of being with a man
    like my ex again, fear of looking attractive to men in case I got hurt
    again, fear of shining, etc - you get the picture.  At 41 I suddenly
    realised that this was the bod I was stuck with this time around and I
    had bl***y well better like it and apporove of it.  So I started
    accepting myself exactly the way I was - not trying to change anything,
    just purely accepting.  
    
    Funny things started happening.  I had worked through most of my fears,
    except this doozy, but after a few weeks of just liking me for me I
    found I wasn't interested in chocolate, sugar, take-away foods, and
    wanted, actually, was craving the good foods.  When I finally made the
    decision to start a proper program I was READY in every sense of the
    word, both with exercise and food.
    
    In 22 weeks I haven't looked back, it hasn't been hard, actually its been
    like a normal life.  I haven't wanted chocolate (except for a really bad
    week last week), but only that was only verbalised, and I certainly didn't
    *want* it, nor did I buy any.  I pack my lunch and breakfast and take
    them to work and my dinners are all ready when I get home.  After the
    gym I have a big bowl of pasta, and am so busy on the weekends I make
    do with two meals a day instead of three, but don't get me wrong, I
    eat, heaps, just don't have any fats.
    
    What I am doing now is a way of life.  I am so happy with myself and
    the way I have moved forward that I just can't see myself slipping back
    for any reason.  But, like Holly I recognised my problem and dealt with
    it.  It just took me longer than most people...(^'
    
    I know I've said this before, (But I do go on at the mouth!) Find out
    the reason you eat and deal with it.  The number of times I have held
    conversations with myself in the car is beyond count.  
    
    A much happier 
    
    ...dale

    Hello everyone!  I have now lost 2 pounds since starting this note. 
    I'm happy with the weight I've lost, but I'd like it to go a lot
    faster.  I'll just have to be patient.  After all, it took a long time
    to put on. (how many times have I heard that!)
    
    Anyway, I'm still eating some of the Weight Watchers stuff, but mainly
    just watching what I eat.  
    
    I don't feel real blabby this morning, so I'll talk to everyone
    tomorrow.
    
    
    Donna

    I do a peek in here from time to time (when I'm on my semi-annual diet
    for two weeks and then lose steam and next thing I know, no more diet).

    I've actually managed to stay on a diet -- started Februrary 1st and
    still going strong. I started at 220, am now at 206, and I'm going for
    175-180. I can empathize with the problems people have mentioned here.
    I've been through them all.

    Compulsive eating, sugar addiction! Yes, a box of Nabisco sugar wafers
    in one shot. Yes, sweetened condensed milk straight out of the can.
    Inhaling a whole bag of potato chips. In the past, I'd cut out all
    sweets, and it was only a matter of time before the wafers made it home
    from the supermarket. I now keep small cans of pineapple chunks cold in
    the fridge. If I have a sweet attack, I go through a can: 0 fat, less
    than 200 calories, attack taken care of for the rest of the evening.
    If I feel like chips, I have unbuttered air-popped popcorn. You can't
    succeed if you totally deny your cravings. Most people just don't have
    that kind of will power, especially not me.

    "It doesn't matter/not feeling good about how I look/etc." I've been
    through this too. I put on a bunch of pounds after moving out after 4
    years of marriage. That was two years ago. So, what changed this time
    around? The first thing I did was to stop looking like s**t: clothes too
    tight, stretched to the limit, love grab-bars sticking out over the
    waist. I've got to wear a suit every day here. Back in October, when I
    saw the old wardrobe had had it from the previous season of fitting a
    too-large body, I trashed every suit (actually, donated to charity) and
    bought 4 Burberry suits (about $2K with tax). I'm still paying them off,
    but it's the best investment I ever made in looking good: I looked good
    (though not thin!) -- and *felt* good -- as soon as wore my new
    wardrobe. I put in suspender buttons so if I did lose weight, everything
    wouldn't start falling down. It still took about 4 months to work up to
    being serious about dieting. Putting off looking the best you can "until
    you lose weight" is a sure fire way of loosing motivation in the
    meantime. You need to look your best -- at any weight -- so you can
    appreciate the parts of you that do look good and get to work on the
    rest. I can't emphasize how critical this is -- this is the part that
    gave me _real hope_.

    Sticking with it. I'm another King of the two-week crash diets. I've
    gone through more of those than I have fingers and toes. This time
    around I started with a goal and no schedule. I weigh myself every
    morning and record my weight. Weighing in every day helps me two ways:
    one, I see that I'm at least not (usually) gaining any weight, and gives
    me the motivation to put in that extra walk a day when I put on a little
    bit -- before it gets out of control. I don't "project" when I expect to
    be at my target weight, I just keep believing that I'll eventually get
    there. I don't get down when I indulged and put on a pound because I
    keep focused on the big picture. BTW, morning weighings tend to be the
    most consistent, at least for me.

    What's been the hardest? Giving up champagne! This is the one place
    where I've had to pretty much totally abstain with no substituations.
    Alcohol puts on more weight faster than anything else I've seen. I'll
    still have a glass of wine with dinner sometimes, but no more than once
    a week.

    Well, I've been rambling on enough. For me, the keys this time around
    (and I've _never_ stuck with a diet this long) have been:

      - patience -- it's a LOT easier than will-power; patience in the time
        it will take, patience in finding and allowing yourself effective
    	substitutes for your cravings, patience to not punish yourself when
        you lack the will-power to practice total denial of something in
        your diet

      - start with positives in your self image -- always look the best you
        can, including wearing clothes that fit you properly; it helps you
        see your own potential

    And in my case, a Cindy Crawford calendar, my reminder of "this is what
    a thin person looks like!" :-)

    Keep with it, folks!

    /Peters

    < You need to look your best -- at any weight -- so you can appreciate
    < the parts of you that do look good and get to work on the rest.....
      
    Didn't work for me! A few months ago I did the same - gave all that
    size 6/8 skirts, dresses etc. to some organization and bought me
    a few things that fit and look really nice. At least people say
    so. And what the also say is that I look like maybe five or eight
    lb too much but not more. So, those things really do their work.
    BUT .... They also make me think "Well, really not so bad, so what's
    that fuss about?" And then I go on eating .... (Just had another
    piece of cake after my fiance told me "Your really look pretty this
    morning, darling"!!!!) 
    
    It always needs the look in the mirror without any clothes to recognize
    what happens and to stop lying to myself.
    
    Btw: After writing my .2 last friday I went home, and just guess
    what I bought on the way? Two big slabs of chocolate! And I enjoyed
    them so much while reading a good book on my favorite sofa, listening
    to great music. Two hours later I was laying there and crying heavy
    tears. Then I had a serious talk to my father on the phone and he
    suggested that I might need some professionel help on this. I'm
    not sure (guess a little bit scared ...) - what do you think? Did
    any of you try? 
    
    Comments are very welcome!
    
    Billie
    

    Have you been checked out for hypoglycemia, by any chance?
    
    The euphoria associated with sugar/chocolate (feeling of peace and well
    being) follwed by a devastating crash when your blood sugar drops is
    one symptom of hypoglycemia (as well as some other diseases).
    Only a doctor can really evaluate this, it's not something you can
    diagnose without a blood test, preferably a glucose tolerance test.
    
    I suffer from this, and getting totally off sugar (a year without any)
    is the best thing I ever did for myself.
    
    Holly

    .9
    
    What a great attitude!  I have put off so many things (not limited
    to buying clothes) until I lose weight that it seems as though I
    have wasted so much time, time that I will never get back even WHEN
    (not if) I do get thin.  Your note was so full of self-love and
    acceptance that it made me think about the negative messages I give
    myself about dieting (how far I still have to go, how many times
    I have tried and failed before) instead of thinking about how difficult
    all of this is and how well I am doing.  By the way, who is Cindy
    Crawford?  I have never been a thin person so I'm not sure what
    I should look like.  Why do I have the feeling that what Cindy Crawford
    looks like is not going to be one of my choices even if I never
    eat again???  
    
    Thanks again for sharing your thoughts,
    
    Sylvia

    re last few:

    I mentioned a bunch of things I've tried to do differently this time
    around.  I need to do the "birthday suit" test regularly, since I "don't
    look like I need to lose weight" when fully dressed.  There's nothing
    like the naked truth to keep you honest. Just don't get depressed by the
    task you see in the mirror!

    I'm not sure that I've arrived at self-love and self-acceptance yet.
    Really, I just didn't want to do my (white) beluga whale imitation again
    when pool/beach weather came around.  I told my stepson, Michael, that if
    I didn't lose weight, I'd stop spelling my name on the phone as "V as in
    Victor, E, C, R, U, M as in Mary, B as in boy, A"  and start spelling it
    "V as in Victor, E, C, R, U, M as in mammoth, B as in beluga, A as in
    whAle."

>               ... it made me think about the negative messages I give
>   myself about dieting (how far I still have to go, how many times
>   I have tried and failed before) instead of thinking about how difficult
>   all of this is and how well I am doing. ...

    This is one of the real keys.  Every time before, when I slipped up and
    put on a few pounds, like after a weekend dinner and drinks with
    friends, I'd say, what the hell? Why not just enjoy myself? I finally
    realized that if I don't enjoy being fat, then the only time I'm actually
    enjoying myself (while fat) is while consuming, and the more I want to
    enjoy myself, the more I consume.  You just can't afford to stop thinking
    that you are going to make progress, no matter how slowly.

    That's the other key: patience.  I started February at 219 1/2, had
    dinner the first weekend with friends, up to 222; my low for the month
    was 210 1/2 and I ended at 213 1/2 (down 6). I didn't berate myself by
    thinking "if only I hadn't had that dinner" or "if only I hadn't gone for
    drinks that time", then -- the killer -- "... I would have weighed 6 1/2
    pounds less" -- the total of my "upswings." This time, I survived two
    dinners back-to-back (+3 1/2) and kept going.

    I just say, "Wow, losing 6 pounds is a lot better than gaining 6 pounds!"
    (Gee, that means I'm 12 pounds less than I would have been if I just kept
    eating! Something like buying a lot of things on sale and telling
    yourself how much money you're "saving." You may laugh, but it works!)

    BTW, I don't think you want to know who Cindy Crawford is. She's one of
    the top fashion models and has been on about every fashion magazine cover
    there is. Lethally thin (as thin as you can get and still have curves,
    and it's her swimwear calender, of course ;-)


    Best regards,

    Peters

    P.S. I also read the calories on EVERYTHING. For example, I like Wheat
    Thins, and I can eat twenty at only 175 calories. I used to have half a
    box at a crack (700 calories), now I just satisfy my craving. Well,
    actually, I'd have a whole *large* bag of potato chips (don't even ask!)

    You don't have to "give up everything" to lose weight!

    .13
    
    Thanks for the advice--looking on the bright side--it sounds trite
    but it's so profound.  And if you really can look at the big (sorry)
    picture instead of small setbacks you have enough confidence to
    keep going.  It's just so hard not to look to food for comfort for
    my marital problems, job frustrations and loneliness (my parents
    are retiring and moving away) but I haven't been doing that and
    I think I deserve kudos for that.  So do you for your excellent
    advice and to everyone who shared their experiences in this note.
    
    Donna, what do you think???
    
    Sylvia

    Hello everyone.  It's me.  Sorry I haven't written in a few days.  I've
    been very busy. re: .14 -- what do I think about what everyone is
    saying?  I think all the comments have been great, and they really keep
    me going.  I have eaten a couple of things that I should not have, but
    I'm not going to go into deep depression over it.  I just keep going,
    knowing that the final result will be great.  I have a confession to
    make.  I have not been exercising everyday.  "Too busy".  But when I
    get home I am going to do them, and from now on every day.  It helps me
    lose weight a little faster when I keep with a exercise program.  It
    also gives me more energy and makes me feel better about myself.  I
    don't want to cheat when I've just done something great like that.
    
    Anyway, I've basically been watching what I eat this week.  Counting
    calories and everything.  I'm going to have to get off the cola's all
    together I think.  I don't know if they have sodium or not, but it
    makes me feel funny like when I have too much salt.  I feel all cheeks-
    like my face is huge, and I feel like a chipmonk.  
    
    Well, I am going to the store after work today and am going to try to
    buy some foods that are good for me.  The Weight Watchers food is very
    good, but rather expensive when you buy two meals for each day plus one
    or two of their desserts for the week.  So I'm back to actually
    thinking about what I buy.  --that's always been hard for me.
    
    Anyway, I should have started writing when I was in a peppy mood.  I
    sound soooooo depressing.
    
    
    Talk to you (hopefully) on Monday
    
    
    donna
    

    re .15
    
    donna,
    
    Do you not like the diet cola's?  It's been so long since I drank a
    "real" cola that I couldn't tell you about the sodium content, but Diet
    Coke has 35 mg. of sodium.  I don't know if that's per can or per
    serving.  If it's per serving, then there is 70 mg. of sodium per can
    instead of 35.  I'm sure different types of cola's vary.  Try comparing
    the labels to see what is best.  Also, try to drink plenty of water.  I
    try to have at least 6  8 oz. glasses of water a day, but I try to
    follow each soda or glass of tea, etc. with a glass of water to keep my
    system flushed out.  I don't see very much water weight gain this way,
    but if I don't do it consistently, I do see a 3 to 4 lb. fluctation in
    the scale.  
    
    Also, on the exercise, don't beat yourself up over being "too busy".  I
    do that myself.  There are sometimes just not enough hours in the day
    to get everything done.  Even if you can only work out for 20 - 30
    minutes, it's better than not at all.  If you have an exercise bike,
    pull it up in front of the tv.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Virginia

    re: .16, thanks for the advice.  I sneak a reg. coke in every now and
    then, but when I wrote my last note I was drinking a diet one.  I'm
    getting tired of the taste of the diet drinks, so tonight I'm going to
    buy some Crystal Light Lemonade.  It's only 4 calories per glass and I
    like the taste.  
    
    As far as exercising goes, I am going to do the Jane Fonda Beginner's
    program (don't have the tape anymore but I do have the book).  I have
    not been walking this past week because the weather has been so bad. 
    Lots of rain, then today its been very cold because of our tornado
    storm last night.  So I figure with a indoor excercise I can at least
    do it when I feel like it.  And I'm trying not to get on my case too
    much about missing the exercise, I just get the guilts sometimes.
    
    later,
    
    donna
    

    RE: sodium...
    
    As I read this note, I am drinking a Diet Rite Cola a product of 
    Royal Crown Cola Co.  It has NO caffeine, NO sugar and NO sodium.
    They use Nutrasweet.  It was recommended by Jenny Craig.  ^^^^^^
    
    Jodi-
    

    Is sodium a big deal in losing weight??  Maybe that is why I am having
    a problem.  (I really love salt, but gave it up successfully last year)
    but I realize sodium is in a lot of things.  I need to lose 25lbs and
    would like to lose in by June. (which I guess is probably IMPOSSIBLE).
    Anyways, I would like to do the slimfast plan, but I have to be careful
    of the calcium because of a kidney stone I got last August.  I am
    already drinking at least 3 quarts of water a day because of the kidney
    stone.  I have been exercising regularly since Feb. (meaning at least 4
    times a week for one 45 mins - one hour each time==Aerobics/toning)
    This is the first time in my life I have been overweight, and even
    though it is not much to some people, I want to kick it before it gets
    to be a REAL problem.  
    
    RE: a few notes back.  I hate it too when people say I look fine and
    that I would be anorexic looking if I lost 20 lbs.  But of course, I
    dress to cover it!!  I use to be a size 3/5.  Now I've been wearing
    11/12!  (I am 5'2 1/2")  That is HUGE for me!
    
    When I go grocery shopping, I buy 'around' the store, like I've heard
    before.  Just fruits, veges, and chicken & fish.  Milk and deli stuff
    for my husband (who hasn't gained an ounce since he waas 16 -now 28). 
    The only reason I go to a center isle is for paper products, cat food
    and spring water!  I can't seem to shake this extra 20 lbs which have
    been with me since the summer!  I have to admit, I eat m&m's once in a
    while, but I no way eat the whole bag!  I do like white russians on the
    weekends, but when I weighed 100lbs (at age 24) I drank white russians
    like they were going out of style and did not put on an ounce!! I also
    use to eat a lot of take out and fried.  I figure it is age & not
    enough exercise..... (I hate exercise, but am making the effort!!)
    
    Any comments?
    
    Doreen

    One more thing I forgot to add to .19:
    
    Is it true that food catches up with you?
    
    	let me explain:
    
    I use to go crazy and eat a lot of cakes, candies etc chips.  Drink
    white russians (But I did dance a lot while at clubs - maybe it evened
    out) Fried foods, take out.... when I was a teen (but then I weighed
    85-90 lbs in high school).  People use to say "when you get older, all
    those calories you are eating now will catch up with you!"  Were they
    right?  I find it a little hard to believe, but I am 25 lbs over weight
    and I am 30 years old (January).  But I WAS always active, and slowed
    down a bit as I grew older.  I guess it that dam M word! metabolism.  I
    really need to get it higher I guess!

	Doreen,

	   I've got to beleive that sodium (salt) is a huge contributor
	to weight gain.  I have always loved my salt and I'm lucky, I
	don't appear to retain excess water.  My ankles, fingers, etc. 
	never look swollen.  

	    Three and a half weeks ago I went on the Jenny Craig program.
	Before that I tried for months to trim down.  I mostly tried to
	eat the low-cal frozen lunches.  Of course just about anything
	frozen is high in sodium.  But I was drinking three quarts of 
	water a day, no problem, so I figured I was flushing the salt out 
	of my system, no harm done.  Wrong!  Since I've been on Jenny Craig, 
	I've lost 10 pounds.  From what I can tell, JC is a low-sodium diet 
	and they ask that you DO NOT add any extra salt to your food.  

	    The curious thing now is...I have to work real hard to get 
	myself to drink 2-3 quarts of water a day. Without all that salt
	in my system, I have no cravings for water. Kind of a Catch 22.

	    
	Jodi- 

    The alchohol will do you in, plus White Russians have cream in them
    too, don't they, which adds mucho calories.  If you can change
    to White Wine (well, the "white" part is there, at least!) you would
    be much better off. 
    
    --Louise

    Alcohol is bad because it is all "wasted" calories (yes, I do believe
    that it matters where you get them from) and it also lowers your
    resistance so you eat things you wouldn't otherwise eat.  I stopped
    drinking all together about four years ago (not to lose weight just
    because there is alcoholism in my family) and although my eating
    habits were terrible at the time I found it easier not to gain weight.
     Now that I am dieting, I see that I can eat more than my friends
    who drink and still lose (and I have a very low metabolism, probably
    in part because I don't exercise enough).
    
    Good luck with your program, it must be very difficult to have to
    diet after being thin all of those years (I was always fat).  Keep
    us posted on your progress.
    
    Sylvia

re .20

	Salt should NOT interfere with weight (ie FAT) loss.

	Salt causes some people to retain water.

	And water is essential for metabolization of fat.

	Because of salt's water-retaining property, you may look and
    feel "bloated", but if salt consumption is constant throughout
    the diet (before/during/after) it is of no consequence in terms of
    fat loss.

	In fact, too little salt can cause you to fatigue early.

-mike z

.23>    Alcohol is bad because it is all "wasted" calories (yes, I do believe

	It also dehydrates your body and wreaks havoc with your blood
    sugar level.

      	Definitely try to avoid all alcohol while dieting.

-mike z

    I have a question.  If I were to eat about 500 cal. per day (with
    protein, fruits, etc.) and exercise a lot.--to lose the weight
    fast--would this cause a health risk?  I did a major crash diet years
    ago (how I dont know) and had no bad affects.  Any comments?
    
    
    Donna
    
    

.26>    I have a question.  If I were to eat about 500 cal. per day (with
.26>    protein, fruits, etc.) and exercise a lot.--to lose the weight

	Before you start that please read 7.49.

	Then read 190.9. 190.11, and 445.19.

	What you're describing is fasting, and, unsupervised, it could
    be hazardous to your health.

-mike z

    .26
    
    Not only is Mike (.27) correct, but you could slow your metabolism
    down so that when you go off the 500 calorie diet your body will
    put on weight faster (you actually need less calories to maintain
    the weight--it has something to do with the fact that we fat people
    are actually the fittest who could survive when the food supply
    thinned out thousands of years ago...)
    
    Donna, it is so frustrating to lose weight slowly (it has taken
    me seven months to lose 35 pounds) but I don't think there are any
    shortcuts.  I hope whatever plan you pick works out for you.
    
    Sylvia

    Thanks for the advice, and after lunch I will read the notes you
    suggested.  Actually, I guess if I keep my calories at 1000 per day and
    eat the right things (and exercise), maybe in 2 months time I can get a
    lot off.  I wont put "requirements" on myself.
    
    
    Donna
    

    Head tell that if you eat less than 800 Kcal. per day over a prolongued
    period without supervision, you can start loosing muscle tissue. Not
    recommended, paricularly since the heart is "muscle tissue".
    
    My 2�
    
    Nick

    Also, muscle tissue is "active" tissue, which takes energy to support,
    from what I've read.  Fat tissue, on the other hand, just sits there
    and stores fat, and does not need as great a blood supply or as much
    energy to support.  So, if you weigh 150 lbs and have only 15% fat,
    you are usually able to eat more than if you weigh 150 and have
    30% fat - some of the calories will go to maintaining your muscles
    in good condition. 
    
    Another thing to think of is the shape you'll have when you finish
    dieting.  Those nice curves in your calves, fellow ladies, are made
    of MUSCLE tissue.  You can shape muscle - fat just sits there in
    blobs.  So don't lose that muscle!
    
    --Louise

    I just found this notes file and I'm getting alot of encouragement.
     I think the reasons why we over eat are usually quite personal
    and as various as the number of people who do it.  I decided, being
    the sophisticated big city woman that I am, that I had to get to
    the root of the problem if I was ever going to really get to a weight
    I felt comfortable with and stay there.  (I decided this after I
    saw a woman with a great body and told myself that I would kill
    for a body like that.  Then a revelation !!!! I don't have to kill
    for a body like that.  Just eat right and excercise.)  
    
    I started therapy 3 years ago.  I lost 45 pounds in the first 4
    months.  There was very little effort involved.  Then I stopped
    with another 45 pounds to go.  I have since changed therapists,
    for the better, started group and gained 5 pounds.  I believe in
    the end this will all help but I am not enjoying the process at
    all.  I am finding out attitudes and motivations for my weight that
    I would never have even considered before.  The biggest problem
    is that I am an emotional eater.  Any emotion will do, happiness,
    sadness, boredom, joy.   The purpose of therapy is to bring up all
    these emotions.  I am very concerned that I will backslide on my
    way to recovery.
    
    I am trying to realize the limitations of being human and that I
    can't do everything at once (lose weight, quit smoking, take 17
    units at college, work 40 hours a week, therapy, friends, start
    a new relationship, etc).  
    
    I can relate to so much that everyone has said here.  These are
    conversations that I have had with myself over and over again. 
    I am not really afraid of much.  So when I find I am having as much
    trouble accomplishing something as I am this I know there is a good
    reason.  It sounds like we all seem to have found good reasons and
    are finding out they aren't as good as we once thought they were.
    
    Well here's to us and our climb to success and lifelong happiness.
    I think by coming in here from time to time I can make it.  It's
    the support from people who understand that I believe will get me
    through.
    
    Sadie
    

    
    Hello........out there.
    
    I found WEIGHT_CONTROL a week ago and have been browsing through the
    various topics, but non, absolutely NON, has affected me as this one
    topic.
    
    The first note.........Donna I believe, talking with herself well, I
    most certainly agree, it's ME too!
    
    It's MARCH 15, 1991.  The last time I was near goal was April of 1982. 
    I weighed 160 and wanted to be at least 145.  I now weight 244.  I
    still would like to weigh 145.  Since 1982, I haven't dealt with my
    problem, why I eat. Oh, I'm very educated in the nutrion area, I know
    reasons why I eat ----> Emotional, mostly stress-related.  The
    situation is all too familiar with me in this NOTE.  I am a very
    serious chocoholic and I do believe my system requires sugar if I don't
    get the chocolate.
    
    I went shopping for the week last nite.  Our budget is real tight, but
    I was determine to buy foods back to normalcy.  Fruits, rice cakes,
    cukes, celery, juices, etc.  My husband has a bad heart and we know all
    to well about sodium, cholestrol, fats.
    
    So, why doesn't this just straighten me right out?  I guess for at
    least the last 3 - 4 years, I've just accepted that I will remain this
    way.  I'm not bad looking, my husband never and I'm very fortunate,
    complains of my weight, even though I need to loose 100 lbs.  He is
    always very supportive and really feels bad cause I just can't pull it
    all together.
    
    I am so mad at myself.  I physically feel lousey for the first time and
    I'm at a point where I'm nervous for my health.  So..........this
    weekend, with the foods I bought, I plan on creating a cut-back diet,
    walking exercise, I do have Sweatin with the Oldies Video, will put
    that in my regimin, eventually.
    
    In reading all your notes, I too have discovered various things that
    I've done to myself in the past, and will not now:
    
    _ I won't limit the time to loose
    _ Will make small goals of 20 - 25 lbs, at a time
    _ Will not punish myself for slipping off and the binge
    _ Will seek added support of "a" friend and future support groups
    _ "WILL NOT TELL ANYONE I'M DIETING..........."
    
    The last one has been, and always been, a big mistake.  I tend to diet
    for everyone else's expectations..........and feel I let them down.
    
    I know the last note here, was in December of 1990.  I'm interested in
    the originator, sorry, bad memory with names even in a short time, to
    see if you could of lated in handling getting yourself, motivated and
    kept going to loose what you wanted and needed.
    
    Even though, I'm ready, I just had a cup of coffee here at work and a
    .......donut!  
    
    But...........I have not, anymore, resign myself to the fait of
    getting bigger and bigger.  At this weight, for the very first time in
    my life, it is in the way, the poundage.  I have been a various
    weights, and never had it really affect me and things I do and personal
    life.  So more than ever, it has to come off.
    
    Well, thanks for the space, will talk with you...........hopefully.
    
    Carol
    
    

    Re:  -1, 
    
    Carol,
    
    I hope you are doing well.  Update us on your progress.  I have had my
    ups and downs but am on my way to accepting myself as a normal sized
    person.  I still have about 20 pounds to lose, and I have been at the
    same weight for about nine months now.  I guess I am not ready to make
    the next step.  But, I feel very much in control, because I have never
    been at one weight for any length of time, I have spent my life either
    losing or gaining (mostly gaining) weight.
    
    I weigh 143.5 pounds and, since I am only 5'3", I should probably weigh
    about 115-120, but I don't think that is realistic for me.  I am aiming
    for 125 or even 130.  I work out every day and I wear a size 8.  Pretty
    amazing since my wedding gown in November of 1988 was a size 18.  I was
    so humiliated that it cost an extra $75 since it was larger than a 16
    and had to be ordered special (as if the other wedding gowns are
    off-the-rack, the indignities we fat people must suffer in this world)
    
    I have a healthy lifestyle and hope to get on track to lose those extra
    20 or so pounds to be at a weight which will work for me for the rest
    of my life.
    
    How are you doing?
    
    Hope all is well.
    
    Sylvia