Conference rocks::weight_control

	The notes which led me to open this new topic are 537.6 to
    537.25.

	I suggest that anyone who hasn't read those yet, do so now
    to get the proper background information ...

-mike z

537.24>    Mike you may be right, but where did I get all the names of the 
537.24>    clemicles memntioned in note .21,

	You got them from literature.

	What you should get now is a reliable physiology textbook so you
    can see through the phony claims in the literature.


537.24>    in relation to other things? Most people don't EAT RIGHT so meaning
537.24>    organic food or not so they are forced to suppliment their diet
537.24>    with somthing that will give them what they require for the day's
537.24>    nutrition to make up for the processed food that one has to 
537.24>    comsume without all minerals and vitiams required.

	I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I think it's that
	    o eating right requires organic foods
	    o processed food is lacking in minerals and vitamins

	Is that's what you're saying?  Spell it out for me.


	Ok, let's examine the chemicals you mentioned earlier ...

537.21>    Ox Bile Extract-D.

	I have no idea what this is, some oxen bile extract?

	Is it even found in the human body at all?


537.21>L.Methionine

	Methionine is 1 of 8 essential� amino acids. Abundant in beans,
    meats of all kinds, and diary products.   If you eat any of these
    on a regular basis, you'll have no problem getting enough methionine.


537.21>L-Carnitine

	"Carnitine has no absolutely no therapeutic effects and there is
    no benefit to taking supplements.  Even premature babies, who are
    less able to make carnitine, can obtain sufficient amounts to meet
    their needs from their normal food."

		Columbia Encyclopedia of Nutrition, p89


537.21>L-Arginine

	"This is a strong, akaline amino acid.  Growing infants and
    children require good dietary sources of this amino acid because
    it is not made in the human body in sufficient quantity to sustain
    a normal rate of growth.  Foods rich in protein all contain sig-
    nificant amounts of arginine.

	Arginine supplements have no value in the human diet.  Some body-
    builders take arginine supplements under the mistaken impression that
    it facilitates muscle growth.  However, this is not true."

		Columbia Encyclopedia of Nutrition, p53

-mike z

� an "essential" amino acid is an amino acid that cannot be manufactured
    by the human body.

    Mike did a little more investergating so as to have the right 
    information for you to see,First the FDA has approved the formular.
    Second The Company offers guarantee satisfaction or your money back,
    if not satisfied with the product,at any time during your use of
    said product.I called the Company and the product was researched
    for six years before it was approved by the FDA.You have used products
    that have been approved by the FDA so they are a useful body of
    people making sure to check out every formular that comes along that
    they are what they say they are.The formular does not work with
    any componant missing,thats why to break it down was not the way
    it is used.And as far as being ripped off or a scam as somone put
    it any Company that offers full refund if not satisfied I don't
    think you can call that a rip off.Weight watchers cost about $55.00
    to start and you are supposed to buy the product in the store for
    that purpose.But this cost is $34.95 but you eat the food that you
    have been eating all along and add this to the diet of food that
    you norminaly eating .I realy don't think that someone who hasn't
    tried it should make a quick judgement about something that they
    haven't been involved in.The Phone No is (407)640-5700 the man to
    talk with is Mr.Harry Hersey Pres.If after talking to him you  are
    still not sure,than all I can say is that you may have to rethink
    the information you gave to me.According to the paper I copied he
    is reconized around the world in the DSA association as one of the
    top people involved in natural foods.I do think what he has to tell
    you may be surprised and find that all the books that you might
    have is no compareison to the thirty years of knowledge he has in
    the field of chemistry.I did make inquirys about all kinds of things
    so I'll call him again and ask if you got the answers to your
    questions? I do hope you do so as to not mislead anyone realy tring
    to find a good way to lose some extra weight.Before I give any
    information I try to reasearch as much as possible to give accurate
    data.The paper says that you receive a diet plan along with the
    product and you eat regular food so I don't think that is as bad
    as some of the other diets.I do hope you check it out,for your own
    information.
    

    
> Weight watchers cost about $55.00 to start and you are supposed to buy 
> the product in the store for that purpose.
    
    As someone who keeps claiming that others are mis-informed, you might
    want to check more carefully the things you say about other plans.  WW
    costs about $20 to join (and $6-$10/week after that), and you do not have
    to buy any of their grocery store products.  There are numerous notes in
    this conference which describe the WW program, which teaches you how to
    eat normal foods in healthy amounts, prepared in a nutritionally sound
    way.  There may be some usefulness to this supplement, but I seriously
    doubt that adding anything to an unhealthy diet will make that diet
    healthier.
    
    Beverly
    

    I'd be interested in seeing a study that compared weightlosses of
    people who adhered to the suggested food plan that comes with the
    supplements, with and without the supplement, but controlled for the
    placebo effect.
    
    Always skeptical,
    
    Holly
    

    I will reply to beverly $20.00  to start and 6-10 per week?
    I'm talking about 34.95 total.And if you haven't tried it don't
    knock it.Can be introduced at anytime in to your normal food
    with no change in  routine.Try it you might like it.Just a thought.

    The FDA merely certifies that such stuff isn't harmful.
    
    The effectiveness wouldn't be tested by them in any way.
    
    If you insist on spending money on miracle pills, then the very best of
    luck.
    
    Me? I'll stick to methods that I KNOW WORK.

.3>    information for you to see,First the FDA has approved the formular.

	This tells me nothing.

	What was it approved for?


.3>    Second The Company offers guarantee satisfaction or your money back,

	This is a telltale sign of a product with an ENORMOUS profit
    margin, usually 500% or more.


.3>    they are what they say they are.The formular does not work with
.3>    any componant missing,thats why to break it down was not the way
.3>    it is used.

	This is bunk.

	Unless a new compound was created, such as sodium chloride, from
    sodium and chlorine, there is no magical effect from ingesting 
    a compound that's (A+B+C), rather than taking A, B, and C separately.


.3>    questions? I do hope you do so as to not mislead anyone realy tring
.3>    to find a good way to lose some extra weight.Before I give any

	Ok, let's hear your success story on this miracle pill.
    
	Can I stop by SALEM to see you and see how well it's worked for you?


.7>    The FDA merely certifies that such stuff isn't harmful.
.7>    The effectiveness wouldn't be tested by them in any way.

	No, Andy, if they claim an effect, and it is not demonstrated
    in clinical tests, they must withdraw the claim.

	The FDA has 2 criteria - safety and efficacy.

	Of course, if they claim it makes a good dietary supplement,
    then that's another story.  I suspect that's what they did.
    
-mike z

    Don, are you selling or distributing this stuff?
    
    It doesn't bother me personally that we are discussing this, but you
    may be in violation of some of DEC's policies about computer use if you
    are actually distributing it and encouraging people to purchase it in
    here.  
    
    Moderators, you may want to check this one out - I would if it were in
    one of the conferences I moderate.  You are responsible if there is a
    violation.
    
    Holly

    Hmmm. You know, the same thing struck me yesterday. I really wonder
    about anyone pushing such stuff so hard.
    
    Andy

    I sent for paper work for my daughter an that is all that I was
    going to do but when reading the notes file I came across people
    who asked how to loose some weight,and remembered that I had the
    copy at home of the paperwork. I quoted it as best as I could.
    That is the whole thing in a nut shell.No I don't sell it I gave
    the address of a person in Maine who I got the parework from who
    does.I do hope that is all that is necessary.Only wanted to give
    an other option to anyone who wanted to look into it.Subject closed.
    I will not discuss it any further.Thanks for all the answers that
    I have had they do tell me people are intrested in the good things.
                         
    

    
    Oh we ARE interested in good things. We're just extremely skeptical
    that miracle pills .eq. good things.
    
    Tell your daughter to eat less and exercise more. It's cheaper, as well
    as effective.
    
    - Andy ��� Leslie
    

   It seemed pretty clear to me from all of D_ALLEN's (sorry, I can't remember
   your first name) notes that he *wasn't* involved in the marketing of these
   products.  I have pursued such suspicions in the past.  I do appreciate
   hearing about noters' concerns, but I'd prefer  that such issues be
   addressed to the moderators (SEND/MOD at the Notes>  prompt) in the future.

   I heartily commend your concern for your daughter's health.  Given that as
   your motivation, *if* she wants to lose weight herself, I *strongly*  urge
   you to check out Weight Watchers.  I sneered at it as a kid, but if I could
   change the past, I think the first thing I'd do is go back and attend one
   of the WW camps as a 13-year-old or so (I would have freaked at the mere
   suggestion; they looked horrible to me then).  One or two meetings aren't
   that big a commitment.  I'd also strongly encourage you to go with her, so
   that you'll have a better idea of how to support her.

   If she isn't ready to deal with her own weight yet, the best thing you can
   do for her is make it clear that you're willing to help when/if she wants
   it, then leave her alone.  No comments about her appearance (they will seem
   snide even if you don't mean them that way, no veiled suggestions, nothing. 
   Anything else will breed only resentment, and will make the battle much
   harder in the long run.  I know my parents had only the best of intentions,
   but they handled my weight problem badly; I hate to see other parents
   making the same mistakes.

   Good luck, and best of health to you, too, 
   Beverly,  Co-moderator