Conference rocks::weight_control

I can certainly relate to this.  My mom always said "you need to lose
all the weight you want before you're 25".  When that came and went
it was "you need to lose all the weight you want before you're 30".
That also came and went...She also tried the bribes and all that
stuff.  She also included coupons with her letters for sugar-free
Jello and stuff like that.  Thanks, Mom, but when I do it I'll do
it for myself.

So, here I am 30 pounds lighter with WW.  I didn't say a word to
my folks and they saw me at 17 pounds lighter, then at 30.  It was
wonderful.  But, she still does stuff like say "if your daughter
eats such-and-such she'll have to go to Weight Watchers with you".

My advice is to remain happy and content with your WONDERFUL success,
keep your faith in yourself, ignore the outside influences as best
you can and do it all for you - YOU DESERVE IT!

    
    
    My mother too is my worst enemy, when it comes to my weight.  When
    I began dieting last August I made my sister and my husband swear
    that they would not tell my mother.  I was determined not to let
    her ruin my first few weeks or months dieting.  I didn't tell her
    till around Christmas when I had already lost 25lbs.  The only 
    reason I told her was so she wouldn't buy me any clothes.  I would
    rather wait till I had lost more weight before spending any money
    on clothes.  
    
    I think what bothered me the most was that after losing 25lbs, she
    still didn't notice!!!  I had to tell her that I was losing weight!!
    And it's not like I never see her, usually every weekend we visti.
    
    My mother sounds so much like yours it's pitiful!  She was overweight
    for the longest time, but now that she's slimmed down, she's like
    one of those reformed smoker types.   I have to keep saying to myself
    that she means well and is only watching out for my well being,
    but, it's very hard to listen to it.
    
    I could go on forever about mothers, but the only thing I can say
    to you is, do it for yourself!!!  And no one else!!!  Because you're
    the one that matters.
    
    Feel free to contact me if you'd like to talk more.
    
    Good luck and keep up the great work!!
    
    					marcia
    

    I have to agree that you have to do it for yourself (which I'm sure
    you know).  My father watched every item I ate telling me I was
    going to get fat.  "Fat" in his eyes was 2 pounds over what he thought
    I should weigh.  To this day I worry about what he'll say when he
    sees me!!  I've gone to WW too and have lost 19 lbs so far.  I think
    this time I'll keep it off.  It's been too much work to lose it.
    There's an interesting book called The Obsession by Kim Chernin
    about weight and our perceptions about it.  
    
    Dondi

    Although I relate to part of what you are saying here, I don't think
    I understand everything. What troubles me the most is how, as a
    father of two children who are on the high side of the weight charts
    for their age and height, I can teach and guide them properly in
    good nutritional habits without them feeling for me what you feel
    for your mothers. What is the proper approach. Now, there is no
    mention of love or lack thereof, or boy/girl friends, partly because
    my kids are 6 and 8. We have discussed with my 6 yr old son how
    to handle fellow kindergartners calling him fatso. But the main
    emphasis in my house is proper weight and eating habits for the
    health reasons and it is reinforced with roll modeling, portion
    control, good food selections, no sabotaging trips to greasy McD's,
    and frequent fun trips to places for exercise and recreation as
    a family.
    
    Will this work? How do I avoid what you feel becomming an issue
    with my kids?

    Of course do it for yourself.  I had a similar problem, no one
    in my family (or husband) is fat.  So I got the speaches about that
    all I needed was a little (a little...) will power, and so on. 
    It came to an end when I had a talk, that it was my problem and
    that they were making me unhappy and miserable by their "educated"
    opinions. So when the odd hint occurs I answer by "I don't like
    to talk about it" and the occasional polite "shutup please". It
    works for me, because the battle of the bulge is mine and no theirs
    and if I need their opinion I'll ask for it.
    
                                            Lucie

    Thanks everyone, for the replies.  I've since calmed down since
    I wrote the original note.  I think just writing the note was enough
    of an outlet for me.  It's one of those things, you know,
    it's nice to know your not the only one.
    
    To Dad concerned about his kids:  You bring up a very good point.
    What to do about a child's weight problem when you're the parent.
    I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like you're on the right
    track.
    
    Especially where you mentioned emphasising proper weight, portion
    control, good food and excercise.  I want to have children in a
    few years and have already decided that as soon as they learn to
    comprehend it enough, to do the things you mentioned.  Hopefully,
    by starting at age 3 or so, it will just become a way of life. 
    I would like to create a happy, healthy attitude about nutrition
    and excercise from the start, not a few years after they become
    overweight.
    
    If someone out there who has had a weight problem, and has kids
    that don't, or kids that have concered them, I would be interested
    to know what you did.
    
    Gail
    problems.

Gail, I hope to prevent my daughter from having a weight problem in the
first place, though when she's old enough to listen to "outside 
influances" I'll have less control - she's about 18 months now.  In our
house I cook only meals that are on the WW program.  (well, ok, fast food
now and then).  We are eating better and more variety than ever before.
Also, I feel comfortable about giving her things like WW ice-cream bars
as treats (she ate 3 of them the other night) because of the nutritional
breakdown.  I know, she's getting sugar and chemicals...

3 might be too late to start, I don't know.  Just set an example from
the start and maybe that will help.  I hope she doesn't have to go thru
what I've gone thru.

Re a few back, did you really mean  "roll model"? :-).

liz

    Liz,
    
    Not only cant I spell but the pun escaped me until now. Despite
    all my good intentions, my kids were just not born to be those skinny
    little things you see everywhere. Right from the start, at age 0
    we were aware of eating habits and tried to control them, but they
    still grew looking plumper rather than skinny minny. The pediatricians
    warned us against putting a child on a diet. They just want you
    to control portions. No one ever told us how many calories a 3 year
    old should get. Even the nutritionist knew vertually nothing about
    food volumes for the under 12 set. Well we are doing things touchie
    feelie now, watching the scale for patterns, keeping close track
    on height, referring to the charts that specify average weight per
    height per age group.
    
    This is a problem that I think deserves its own note and further
    inquiry.
    
    How about MikeZ, you seem to be the expert - any suggestions?

    Back to the "old feelings" for a minute....
    
    My mother has always been overweight since she had kids (me!). 
    Every time I started a diet when I lived with her, she went into
    "instant sabatoge" mode.  So when I got married (at age 33) and
    started living with a supportive person, I started Weight Watchers.
    Not right away, it took me a couple of years.
    
    Fast Forward...
    
    After I had lost 35 pounds (about half of what I wanted to lose),
    my husband and I returned to my hometown for my high school reunion.
    As long as we were there, we spent some time with my mother.  AND
    SHE DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE I HAD LOST WEIGHT!  What a BUMMER!  That
    happened two years ago and I'm STILL steamed!
    
    I've begun to realize that to lose weight, I just have to pretend
    that Mother doesn't exist for me any more and that her opinions
    have to mean less than nothing to me now.  When we talk on the phone
    we never discuss what we weigh.  It only makes me crazy.  I know
    that she's diabetic and supposed to be on a low-calorie diet....no
    sugar or salt, either.  But when I called her one Sunday morning,
    she was in the kitchen frying bacon!  This woman is not stupid...she's
    a Registered Nurse!
    
    Is there any way to save this woman (and me) from herself.  Or should
    I just try to preserve my sanity and avoid the situation altogether?
    
    Lynn T.
    (Who didn't realize that these feelings were still so deep)

    re: .9
    
    Lynn-
    
    You can't "save this woman from herself". Only she can do that.
    There's nothing but heartache along the path of trying to "save"
    someone who doesn't want to be "saved". 
    
    Along the same vein, every individual "owns" responsibility for 
    him/herself. It is a tough thing for me to do, but I am learning 
    (in conjunction with weight loss as well as many other issues in 
    my life) that her problems are her problems and my problems are 
    my problems. I can't solve her problems and I can't blame her for 
    mine or expect her to solve them. ("her" can be any other person,
    I just used one pronoun here for convenience.) 
    
    Someone told me once (and many others have said it as well) that
    you will only lose weight when that is the most important thing
    to you. It has to be more important than the chips, ice-cream, or
    whatever else. Probably the toughest part for many of us is that it 
    also has to be more important than what "mom" (or anyone else) thinks.   
    It has to be important enough to make you change your ways. Change is, 
    in my opinion, often a very tough and often painful process. I guess 
    you also have to believe it will be worth it.
    
    -Amy.
    
    (All of this is just my opinion. I happen to have some very strong
    feelings about these things. Please don't think I am preaching.
    I don't mean to.)                             

        

    re .10
    
    No offense taken.  I'm just glad to find that others have "mother"
    problems, too.  It makes me feel less alone in that particular battle
    zone.
    
    Lynn T.

    It has been good reading this note and all the replies.  I think we
    should start to admit that this problem is extremely complex -- it
    is not simply a matter of going on a thousand calorie diet and 
    getting thin forever.  If it were, there would not be a recidivism
    problem for people who lose weight of between 95-97%.
    
    Obesity is a combination of many factors.  Most of us have the
    problem of mom or dad's unsupportive criticism.  Many of us, also,
    have family histories (at least on one side) of a lot of trouble
    with overweight.  Statistically, if you have one fat parent you have
    a 40% chance of having a weight problem; if you have two fat parents,
    you have an 80% chance.  To make matters worse, we are living in a
    culture where it is "out" to be fat.  So if we are fat as children,
    we have a lifetime of self esteem problems both from home and from
    external sources (thus, the father in one of the previous notes who
    has to teach his child how to deal with "fatso" taunts).
    
    After years of successful dieting (WW - I used to be a lecturer - Diet
    Workshop, Nutri-system, Diet Center, Weight Loss Clinic) and
    unsuccessful maintaining, I decided to try to get some help to find
    out why this problem persists.  There are some new programs that are
    dealing with the feelings inside that cause many of us to overeat.
    There are some wonderful new books out - "Breaking Free from Compulsive
    Overeating," "The Society as an Addict," "The Dance of Anger," to name
    a few, that have some explanations as to why those of us with this
    genetic predisposition toward obesity tend to gravitate toward that
    as a way to stuff feelings.  Also, "The Obsession, The Tyranny of
    Slimness in our Culture" is extremely interesting.
    
    (I apologize that I don't remember authors' names offhand; but all
    these books are paperbacks and available at most bookstores.)  I
    guess my point is that this is extremely complicated, and that many
    of us have a very active sub-personality in our psyche that constantly
    beats us for being the way we are, when in fact a great deal of it
    comes from attitudes, culture, genes, that we had nothing to do with.
    If most of you are like me, you have more will power than any other
    ten slim people in the world and you have used it time and again,
    only to gain back the weight.
    
    I don't like being fat either, but I applaud anything in the culture
    that allows us to feel human and worthy, and to feel that if we
    lose weight and gain it back or if we can't lose it in the first place
    we are NOT the stereotypical "lazy, complacent, jolly, stupid..." fat
    people the cultural mores promote.  
    
    I hope that shows like Roseanne and all the new literature that is
    coming out will make it easier for those who come after us than it
    has been for us.  My mother can spoil my week with one word about
    my weight also, and entries like Note 193 make me realize this is
    an uphill battle.
    
    Rickey
    

I am enjoying this topic, too.  The other night, I picked up a book that is 
especially for women (actually two books; there's a sequel) _Fat is a Feminist 
Issue_ by Susie Orbach.  She includes meditations that are very revealing (only 
I didn't realize what was being revealed until after the meditation; I found 
that it brought up some things that had been hidden from my conscious self).

My mother was a compulsive overeater, as was my grandmother, and they both 
hated themselves for it.  My grandmother was also diabetic.  My mother used to 
try and shame me in to losing weight by telling me I was fat in a very nasty 
tone of voice; taking out her own issues on me.  (I was as young as 8 when she 
started this).

I have formulated some really strong ideas concerning children.  If we as 
parents are presenting an eating-to-solve-hunger; eating-for-health regimen for 
our children, then I feel that dinnertime should not be the "time for family 
congregation and conversation" each night.  Children are learning that there is 
a time to be hungry and are gearing their hunger for time rather than for that 
feeling in the stomach.  I think this is where the associations that later form 
harmful eating patterns (food is love and sharing) arises.  I think family 
together-time should be unrelated to treats/meals.  You can call "family 
meetings" or other family-type stuff at 7pm or even at 5pm without dinner being 
mandatory.  One of my thin friends who never had a weight problem came from a 
system where stuff was left on the stove warm for a while so that the family 
could eat when they were hungry.  There are more microwaves around now ;-). 
This "Don't eat now because then you won't be hungry for dinner" is the start 
of mental conditioning about food.  What would be wrong with just a little 
cheese and an apple now and not so much later on the plate; maybe children need 
to be trusted with their appetites so that they can trust themselves with them.
I realize this is a really radical concept for the American scene, with the 
exception of the breast-fed or bottle-fed baby, who is fed when there is 
hunger.  Many cultures also use eating as a time for silence; they devote all 
of their concentration to eating without outside influence.  Maybe there's a 
metaphysical effect there worth considering?

Thoughts? Arguments?  (I'm open!)

    I am not sure I agree with $.02 worth. Yes one should eat to fuel
    the body and eat for health, and yes one should not eat by the clock,
    but recent nutritional thought does not encourage eating to subdue
    hunger paings. If one eats three or four small, portion controlled,
    nutrionally sound meals per day, and uses up usual calories per
    day, there is really no reason to wait for hunger. One school of
    thought (has a lot to do with fasting) says that when the body senses
    hunger, starvation if you will, the body becomes more fuel efficient
    and the metabolism lowers. There is evidence of thsi in Optifast
    and in case studies involving famine areas. Another thought is that
    by waiting for real hunger, one , especially a previous overeate,
    will go beyond satisfaction.
    
    I am not saying that you shuld eat when hungry, I only think that
    regular meal times with contolled portions are fine. I expect to
    be hungry at breakfast, lunch and dinner and I am.
    
    Why not have conversation and closeness at meal times? Eating IS
    an enjoyable activity. Why try and make it other than that? Family
    meetings are good anytime, even during dinner.
    Joel

Why is it that we don't know we're hungry or need food until we are in pain?  I 
think that there are other signs besides the starvation feeling to which we 
have turned ourselves off by learning in our early environments to not listen.
In my case, I get a certain moment of "spaciness" that precedes any tummy 
rumblings.  I've learned how to really listen to my body telling me it's hungry.

Some do better on three square's a day.  Others do better on five or six even 
smaller meals per day.  We're each different from the other in so many ways; 
why has eating become a "conformist" issue?

A lot of emotional/physical "stuff" can burn up energy (calories) to the point 
where refueling might need to be done more; on the opposite side of the coin, 
there may be a day when very little energy is burned, and therefore, little 
needs to be absorbed.

There are reasons to wait for hunger.  One of those reasons is so that 
food will be fuel for the body, not used for other purposes (thinking here in 
terms of thought patterns coupling with food habits that contribute to 
compulsive overeating)

Why not learn the body well enough to know the body's first sign that it needs 
fuel, before the metabolic weirdness sets in, which, by the way; the body's 
metabolic regulators can be greatly aided by exercise so that the body's need 
for fuel, detected early enough, won't trigger automatic slowdown.

Hunger in someone who is an overeater will often trigger a binge; what made 
him/her an overeater in the first place?  I think other associations are being 
made.

"Eat everything on your plate.  Eat that broccoli, or no dessert." (When I 
first got out on my own after reprimanded/reward system eating, I thought, OH 
GOOD now I can eat whatever I want and I can have my dessert without eating the 
dreaded Brussel's sprouts!"  I did, too. 15 pounds, two months' worth.  Porkina 
Pigletti on the rampage!
    
Eating together every day, however many times a day, will mean that food is 
automatically associated with "Stuff we do as a family, as a group, so you 
don't need to pay attention to your own body's signals".  Sometimes there is a 
lot of tension in a family and mealtime becomes a time to stuff the face to 
avoid conversation.  (Food becomes associated with purposes through a kind of 
classical conditioning).

>Eating IS an enjoyable activity. Why try and make it other than that? 

I agree; eating is enjoyable, but its primary purpose is NOT enjoyment; it is 
health/refueling for the body.  There are many other enjoyable activities that 
we can do with our children.   Food does not have to accompany them all.  We 
can show our love and pleasure of them in other ways.  I am of the opinion that 
food is relied upon too heavily for enjoyment.  I get near-orgasmic thrills 
when I bite in to a chocolate-covered cherry.  Just ask Liz Wilcox; she saw 
it.  ;-)  Basically, what I am trying to say is, I don't want to repeat the 
actions of my mother (or grandmother, for that matter) in raising children. 
Pleasantness was always associated with food, and eating dinner was something I 
had to come inside the house to do, no matter how full I was, which interrupted 
play time; the other kids had to go home; all that good stuff.  This gave me 
many mixed messages about food; I've eaten when I don't need to eat because I 
was raised to do that.  I've eaten sweets because they are associated with good 
times.  There's research out now that says lots of kids are showing up 
overweight because of the TV couch potato syndrome.  WHat that says to me is 
that there are people taking the path of least resistance; eating dinner 
together as a family and watching TV together as a family and not pursuing 
other enjoyable activities as a family on a regular basis, so that the child 
has a prime example of how to feel good/do things for him/herself without 
always having a culinary accompanyment.

    Re .7
    Seems to me that 1/2 cup of Breyer's ice cream would be infinitely
    more healthful for an 18-month-old than 3 (THREE!!!! WHAT HAPPENED
    TO PORTION CONTROL AND MODERATION HERE!) Weight Watcher's ice cream
    bars.