Conference rocks::weight_control

    Yes, Jim, please do post the phone number. Or, if that's not allowed,
    would you please just mail it to me? (JJM::ASBURY) 
    
    Thanks. And Congratulations!
    
    -Amy.
    

    
    As host and co-moderator of this conference, I don't see a problem with
    posting the ordering info here; it's only a problem if you or a family
    member stand to gain from the sale of the tapes, which it doesn't sound
    like.
    
    Beverly
    

    Ive seen tapes like that with Subliminal messages at stores like
    Lauriet Book stores!  I have one for relaxation to relieve the stress
    of work sometimes.  It's sopposed to put these messages in your
    subconscious mind.  Mine cost me about 10.00 and they also had them
    for diet.  Hey It's probably the same idea and cheaper.  Glad its
    working for you.  Now that it works for you maybe I'll get the diet
    tape.
    
    Thanks for the info.
    Linda

    
    	The subliminal reprogramming tape is distributed by:
    
    	The Joe Land Co., Inc.
    	P.O. Box 11156
    	Albuquerque, NM  87192
    
    	The phone no. is 1-800-533-LAND
    
    	They have a brochure that describes the concept and how the
    	tapes are to be used.  Good luck!
    
    	Jim
    

    Jim,
    
    I have this tapes at home (saw the same TV show and ordered the
    tapes) but found it hard to find the time to listen.  
    
    When do you listen, and are you watching TV or anything while your
    listening?  How much have you lost now??
    
    Kim

    May I add another one?
    
    I've used a tape for the past year -- and am down 28 pounds.  It
    does take a committment and it's not passive, you become involved
    in what you are doing.  Still, the tape is easy to play as you fall
    asleep at night (the self-hypnosis side) and the other is the standard
    ocean/music subliminal side.
    
    It doesn't do anything radical, you eat until you feel satisfied,
    you drink water, you leave food on your plate if you have had enough.
     The point I like is you don't have to feel guilty about food -
    wasting it is not damaging your health.
    
    Just to offer more choices in this area, you might consider:
    
    POTENTIALS UNLIMITED, Inc.
    4808-H Broadmoor
    S.E. Grand Rapids, Michigan  49508
    USA
    
    The tape cost about $12.00 in a bookstore, the loss took from 26
    November to 30 June so it wasn't radical but it was very steady
    and I still enjoy playing it again as it can put me to sleep almost
    like punching a button!!
    
    

    
    
    	I just purchased one of these tapes myself to see if it could
    help me past my most recent plateau. Mine is from Waldenbooks and
    only cost 9.98.  It is weightloss/changing your metabolism.  (Which
    has always been a problem for me!)  So far I haven't seen a change
    but then only started using the tape yesterday!  :^)  I listen to
    it first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and at lunch
    time during the day or anytime I have a few minutes to relax.  
    	
    	Making the time to listen to it is  helpful  in 2 ways as it
    also causes me to set aside to relax and have time just for me!
    I was getting very stressed out so find that this tape helps from
    both a weightloss and stress reduction stand-point. 
    
    			Myra 

		      CAN SUBLIMINALS WORK FOR YOU?

	Take this simple test.

	Stand quietly for a moment and listen. Listen to ALL of the sounds
	around you. Listen to the voices. Listen to the movement of the 
	people. Is there music? What other sounds do you hear in the 
	background?

	What did you just experience?
	How can subliminals work for you?

	The test you just passed very simply "expanded your awareness".
		For just a moment you became conscious of a small portion of 
	billions of bits of information constantly being processed by your
	subconscious mind every hour of every day, without your knowledge or
	control. This type of information is called subliminal.

	What is Subliminal?

	The word Subliminal comes from two Latin roots:

		"SUB"--meaning below or under

		"LIMEN"--meaning limit, line or threshold.

	So the word Subliminal literally means "under the limit," in this
	case under the limit of conscious perception.

	BOMBARDED BY SUBLIMINALS

		As previously stated, you are continuously receiving 
	billions of bits of Subliminal information from all five of your 
	senses. Everything you touch, taste, smell, see and hear is being 
	registered, processed and permanently filed away by your 
	Subconscious Mind.  At this instant, while your conscious mind
	reads these words, your Subconscious Mind is active - processing
	enormous amounts of subliminal input.

	YOUR UNLIMITED CAPACITY

		Imagine your mind as a computer. The conscious portion of
	your mind is the screen or monitor. At any time it can display only 
	a fraction of the information stored within the computers memory.

		Your Subconscious Mind is the computer memory. But, it is 
	like no computer ever built.  The capacity and ability of your 
	Subconscious Mind to monitor, classify, store and recall information
	dwarfs even the most complex computers.  Its limits and full 
	capabilities are unknown.

		The problem with your Subconscious Mind is that all of the
	memory and information it stores is useless if you don't have the
	code or the key that gives you access when you want it!

	EMBARRASSED

		You see someone you have met before. You know the face...
	You know the name...Its-"on the tip of your tongue"...but you can't
	recall it in time. Frustrating and embarrassing, this is one of the 
	most common examples of our inability to gain access to our own 
	subconscious memory banks when we want and need the information.

	SUBLIMINALS-THE KEY TO UNLIMITED ACCESS AND CONTROL

		In the late 1950's Dr. Hal C. Becker, recognized as the
	father of modern subliminal technology, began experimenting with 
	methods which would give him "at will" access to the Subconscious Mind.
	He found the key through his development of a highly sophisticated
	sound processor. The instrument Dr. Becker created, known as "The
	Black Box" not only provides direct access to you subconscious mind,
	it is to this date, the only subliminal technology whose effectiveness
	has been proven by hard scientific evidence.

		In the late 1970's, Dr Paul Tuthill began to investigate and
	research methods which would help his patients control their weight,
	reduce or eliminate pain and promote rapid healing! His work led him 
	begin experiments with "Subliminal tapes". Though there were some
	early positive results, the quality and performance of the commercially
	available tapes was less than satisfactory. But, what Dr. Tuthill
	determined was that "real" subliminal technology existed.
		With his normal aggressiveness in solving problems, Dr.Tuthill
	pursued this technology, which of course led him to Dr. Becker.

	THE ENCOUNTER THAT MADE THE DIFFERENCE

		In Dr. Becker, Dr Tuthill found a teacher and a colleague
	with similar ideals and goals. Together they began to work applying
	Dr. Becker's technology tp programs designed to address the specific
	problems, needs and goals of thier patients and clients. The results
	were and are startling.

		With Dr. Becker's retirement, the mantle has passed to Dr.
	Tuthill. Through his Company, Mind Communication Inc., Dr. Tuthill
	continues to push this technology and its application to the limits
	of modern science.

	HOW SUBLIMINALS ARE MADE

	There are two ways to create Sublimnal tapes: The Right way and the
Wrong way.

	THE WRONG WAY

	Many of the "Subliminal Tapes" in the market today are made using a
"low-tech" method. An audio engineer is presented with two tapes; (1) a masking 
tape, usually ocean waves or some type of music, (2) a tape of messages or
statements.

	The engineer is then instructed to "create a subliminal". The engineer
has only one practical approach, to find the lowest volume point of the
masking tape and insert the messages below that point.

	With this "low-tech" method, as the masking music rises and falls, it
actually overrides and partially destroys the messages buried beneath it.
If the recorded "subliminal" message is "I Eat Less" and as the volume of the 
music rises, it destroys the word "less", you are left with "I Eat"...and
you will!

	 

amplitude of music       /\          /\
                      /\/  \    /\  /  \ 
amplitude of words  _/______\__/__\/____\
                             \/

The above technique is the wrong way of recording subliminals.




	THE RIGHT WAY

	The patented technology created by Dr. Becker and further developed
by Dr. Tuthill permits MCI's trained engineer to create True Subliminals.
This means that the subliminal affirmation developed for MCI's tape programs
are applied so that they actually follow the rise and fall fo the masking
music. The result is complete and correct information being sent to and
received by your subconscious mind.

                        /\          /\
                     /\/  \    /\  /  \
amplitude of music  /   /\ \  /  \/ /\ \
                   / /\/  \ \/ /\  /  \
amplitude of words  /      \  /  \/    \
                            \/


	WHY USE SUBLIMINALS?

	Because they work. As we told you earlier, the Subconscious Mind
with its unlimited memory and power absorbs everything around you. All that you
encounter or experience is recorded forever in your memory. And as you 
experienced in the test, you are totally unaware or unable to consciously
block the majority of this subliminal information.

	THE SUBCONSCIOUS INFLUENCE

	As powerful as it is, the function of your subconscious mind is to
absorb and record information. It is unable to distinguish fact from fiction,
truth from untruth. As in the weight loss example given a moment ago, if
your Subconscious Mind is repeatedly told to "I Eat" it will attempt to act
on that information, making it almost impossible for you to lose weight!
Because of its power your subconscious can negatively influence a wide range
of conscious actions. In fact science has proven that most personal
limitations are the fault of "negative subconscious programming" often received
in childhood.

	So why not just override you Subconscious Mind and tell it what to do?
Because it won't listen. For some reason, still unknown, your Subconscious
Mind ignores and is often in conflict with your conscious desires. You may
consciously want to lose weight, make every conscious effort to lose weight
but continuously fail, simply because your "negatively programmed"
Subconscious Mind does not believe you can!

	THE SIMPLE SOLUTION

	You reprogram your Subconscious Mind. Remember, with subliminals you
now have the access code. You just choose a new program and turn it on.

	WAIT!...LET'S STOP FOR A MINUTE!

	You are a skeptic. Good! We have shown that you are receiving
subliminal information constanly, from all around you. We have explained how
this can create "negative subconscious programming" and influence or inhibit
your conscious actions. We have also explained the technology that gives you
access to your Subconscious Mind.

	SO WHAT!

	WHAT CAN IT DO FOR YOU NOW? TODAY?	

	YOU WIN!!!!

	All successful men and women share one common secret; they have 
learned, purposely or by accident, to use the power of thier Subconscious
Minds. They have found it to be a source of endless creativity and discovered
an astounding fact. It is the ultimate problem solver!

	But what is so exciting for you and me is that this new resource, this
tremendous power is not reserved for a select few. In fact, you possess the
same power and potential that makes these people always come out on top.

	DREAMS TO REALITY AUTOMATICALLY

	Your own Subconscious mind displays a little of its power to you
regularly...we call dreaming.

	Think of those times when you have awakened with a start!--out of a
"sound sleep". Sometimes, it even takes a few seconds for you to realize you
have been dreaming. Remember how vivid and real those images were. Images so
real that for an instant they "became reality".

	NOW--imagine that you can harness, control and direct that same power.
With Subliminals, you have the power to create an entirely new reality with your
Subconscious Mind -Automatically.

	You can reprogram your Subconscious Mind with new, positive ideas - 
that you have chosen. Begin to eliminate the negative preprogramming that has
limited, frustrated and angered you til now. You will discover new personal
resources and talents that seemed to belong only to others. You become a 
winner, an achiever as you watch your goals become reality.

	IT'S EASY

	The true miracle of Subliminal technology isn't just it effectiveness,
it is the effortless ease with which a properly made subliminal program works.
You simply insert a tape into your cassette player, push the play button and 
allow the music to become a background as you go about your daily activities.

	No special effort is required to listen or concentrate. Your 
Subconscious Mind will be alert and fully aware of the penetrating subliminal 
messages you have selected.

	ARE SUBLIMINALS SAFE?

	With subliminal tapes there is no trance like state. No time when you
are not fully in control.

	A subliminal tape cannot make you do anything that is against your
will or contrary to your personal beliefs and ethics.

	If you choose a properly made subliminal tape its' effects will only
be positive. Though subliminals may seem like magic to some, the outstanding
documented benefits are merely the result of your Subconscious and your 
Conscious Mind working in harmony toward your goals.

	Because of the effectiveness of properly made subliminal tapes, the
growth of this market has been enormous. Also due to the nature of a subliminal
tape and the difficulty in verifying what, if anything, is on your tape. This
industry has become the target for every "fly by night fast buck artist.

	FOR YOUR PROTECTION

	For your protection it is important that you answer the following
	questions, to your satisfaction, before purchasing a subliminal
	tape;

	1). What are the credentials of the person or company manufacturing
	    the tapes?

	2). What method was used to make this subliminal tape?

	3). Is the company or person creating the tapes making claims which
	    don't seem sensible or logical?

	4). Exactly what are the messages on this tape? Does the package
	    include a complete list of the messages on the tape? What
	    verification will the manufacturer provide to you?

	5). What guarantee of satisfaction does the company offer you?

	
	THE LAW AND SUBLIMINALS

	Currently there are no laws governing subliminals. The FCC has posted
guidlines regulating, in fact halting, the use of subliminals over the public
airwaves.

	One company , Mind Communication, Inc. has voluntarily registered its'
products with the FDA, putting itself and its' subliminal tapes under that
federal agencies careful scrutiny. Legitimate companies like Mind Communication,
Inc. are pushing for regulation and control of subliminals, wether by law-or
at least a set of ethical standards by which the industry would govern itself.

	For the time being we suggest that the BUYER BEWARE.

    I, too, purchased a tape from Potentials Unlimited at a local
    bookstore.  And I'm very glad that I did.  Here's what it has done
    for me:
    
    I re-started Weight Watchers on Saturday, Jan. 14, weighing in at
    207.  Saturday afternoon, I bought the tape and a "Walkman"-type
    cassette tape player.  I started using it on Saturday night.
    
    My response to stress has always been to binge eat.  Well, my gut
    feeling is that this week would have been a doozie without the tape.
    On Tuesday night one of my co-workers was stabbed to death.  On
    Thursday night we checked my mother-in-law into the hospital.  And
    yet I was not even tempted to overeat or even to eat anything not
    "on program".
    
    I, for one, think it was the best $9.98 I've ever invested.
    
    Lynn T.
    
    (P.S. - At weigh-in last Saturday I was 201...down 6 lbs!)

    re: .11
    
    Lynn - CONGRATS! And keep up the good work! I have had a very similar
    experience with the tape recently. About 2 weeks ago, I started
    listening to the subliminal side of the tape at bedtime. A week
    ago I rejoined Weight Watchers with a VERY healthy dose of motivation.
    I was (and am) determined to do it right this time! So far, I have
    had no problem staying on program. None! No cravings, no yearnings
    for junk. Nothing! My mental attitude is so different this time,
    I feel pretty sure that the tape has something to do with it. 
    
    Here's to all of us!
    
    -Amy.

    I found .9 and .10 notes very informative and interesting, but it
    sounds like the author is a salesperson for Mind Communicatons.
    I used the weight loss tape a year ago.  I found that after a few
    days my attitude and desires totally changed.  But I also found
    that the effect was not long lasting--which is the problem I have
    with all diets, etc.  
    
    Just recently I have been thinking again about weight loss.  It's
    been hard to get motivated.  I found the tape, which was tucked
    away in a drawer, and noticed right away that my attitudes about
    foods have changed somewhat.  I really need to listen to the tape
    more often.  Right now I am listening when in the car, which is
    a fair amount of time each day.  
    
    I too, wonder about the messages I am listening to on the tape.  When
    I first got the tape (from Joe Land Co.) I called to company to
    find out what kinds of messages I was receiving, because this informa-
    tion was not available in printed material.  I was told the types
    of things that were being said, but not the ACTUAL words.  I guess
    I have always wondered about the quality of the taping method, as
    on occasion I can hear traces of words above the sound of the ocean.
    Notes .9 and .10 has me wondering even more about whether or not
    this tape was taped in the "wrong" way.
    
    Anyway, I'm giving it a try.  I have nothing to loose but weight--
    which is exactly what I want to loose.  I do find that even given
    the positive messages, I have the final freedom of choice, and my
    effort comes in to play in making the right choice.  But I do believe
    that the tape changes your desires, helping to make the choice easier.
    So, good luck to everyone else.  

Hi,

I've read the notes on the subliminal tapes and am quite intrigued by the 
concept.  

Although it sounds really good, I must admit that I'm still a little 
skeptical and $19.95 is a bit much for me this month.  I found a way to try 
the tape without putting out the money up front and thought this might be 
useful to others.

I called the public library in my town and they have these tapes to lend
out.  I'm going to borrow it for 2 weeks and hopefully have some good 
results.  I'd eager to hear the ongoing progress of all of you who are 
using the subliminal tapes.

Sandi

	Hi,

	To clarify some aspects of the Subliminal Tape Methods I am 
	posting the following information.
        
    	These tapes use the simple method of sending to your subconscious
    mind positive statements about any area of your life you wish to
    improve. 
    
    	The product is registered with the Food and Drug Administration 	
    under FDA's No. 1831656 and all information of what is on the tape is  
    fully disclosed to the purchaser.
    
    	There is a number of different style of music, no words are heard
    because they are recorded under the amplitude of the music. So the
    music is all you hear. Your subconscious mind hears the positive
    messages and helps develop your perspectives and attitudes to enhance 
    your life.  
    	
    	The tapes are easy and pleasant to listen to and the dramatic
    results of change can be experienced in a short time.
    
    	It is an excellent tool to assist someone who wishes to improve
    thier life.
    
    	A booklet and catalog will be sent free to anyone who asks.
 
   	The tapes are only $9.98 each plus $2.50 postage and handling.
	A special offer is if you buy 4 you get the 5th tape free.


	The different types of music available are:

	Easy Listening- Selections of Music similar to that found on FM
			Easy listening stations.
	
	New Age- Flute, guitar and synthesizer artistically blended with
		the refreshing sounds of babbling brooks and streams.

	Harp and Flute- A beautiful combination of harp, flute, quitar and 
			cello. Tempos range from 45-60 beats per minute, the
			ideal rate for increasing sensitivity and receptiveness
			Gentle, delightful music.

	Alive and Well- Upbeat, contemporary music with a rock background.
			Energizing stuff.

	Heartpool- All new compositions of harp, flute, guitar and cello
			melodies. Very relaxing; very soothing. Enjoyed
			by all.

	Inspirational Flute- A flute background that lifts your thoughts
			above the humdrum of everyday life. Relaxing rythmns
			make this piece of music calming and inspirational.

	Bluegrass Country- Super Bluegrass and Country sounds, featuring
			guitars, fiddles, banjoes and much more. Guaranteed
			to get your toes-a-tappin' with excitement; this
			music is a delight for country ears.

	Waves- Soothing, relaxing wave sounds.

	Classical- A beautiful piece of music you will always enjoy. The 
		subtle complexities of fully orchestrated Baroque music 
		provides a new listening experience each time you hear it.

	All tapes are about 60 minutes long.

	Videos are also available for both visual and audio subliminal 
        information.

	Tapes available:

	Maximum Strength Weight Loss     	Stop Smoking
	Intimate Encounters			Memory
	Develop High Energy			Prosperity/Living the Dream
	Relax to the Max			Self-Confidence
	Stress					Becoming Patient
	Freedom from Worry and Anxiety		Enriching Relationships
	Agoraphobia				Bedwetting
	Improving Sex I				Improving Sex II
	Successful Marriage			Developing Trust
	Positive thoughts for children		Becoming the Total Person
	Positive Body Image			Attracting Harmony
	Controlling Anger			Guilt Free
	Overcoming Shyness			I've got the Power
	Releasing Anger				Falling out of Love
	Personal Problem Solving		Defeating Discouragement
	23rd Psalm				Recapturing Youth & Vitality
	I like to study				Effective Test Taking
	Creativity				Teenaging
	Speaking and Writing with Confidence  	Better Vocabulary
	Concentration				Bowling
	Running					Golf
	Weight Lifting				Tennis
	Baseball				Basketball
	Boxing					Football
	Racquetball				Skiing
	Swimming/Diving				Back and Neck Pain
	Healing					Excercise
	Insomnia				Stay Awake
	Breath of Life				Stop Sugar Addiction
	Stop Nail Biting			Easier Childbirth
	Premenstrual Syndrome			Headache Relief
	Alcohol Consuption:Cutting Down		Getting Sober
	Reducing Sleep				Recovering Faster
	Healing with Laughter			Time Management
	Goal Setting				Efficient & Organized
	Conquering Obstacles			Assertiveness
	Potential Unlimited			Sales Achievement
	Believing in the Incredible You		Willpower
	Successful Career Moves			Radiating Charisma & Warmth
	Building a winning personality		Intuitive decision making
	Develop Foresight and perspective	Overcome Computer Phobia
	Personal Accomplishment			Quick Thinking
	Learning to say No			Critical thinking
	Becoming a Super Listener		Melting your fears away
	Free to Succeed				Control Spending Habits
	I can do anything			Do It Now
	I like to List Real Estate
             
       	Plus 
        Resisting Peer Pressure    	Saying No to Drugs
    
	30 Minute Videos are available 

    	Maximum Strength Weight Loss, Stop Smoking, Stress Free, Improving
	Sex. Only $19.95 each plus shipping and handling.

	I hope this is able to help someone.
						

    For what it's worth, I tried the  POTENTIALS UNLIMITED tape last
    year and lost a total of 30 lbs in three months.  I found that it's
    most noticable effect was that I would find myself becoming aware
    of what I was doing at meal time, rather than just going on automatic
    and pushing food down my face.  I also found myself stopping when
    I was no longer hungry, rather than taking helping after helping.
    
    

I saw an ad for "Winning at Losing", which is a set of tapes from the Gateways
Institute in California.  There are 10 tapes and a book.  The book tells what
the subliminals are saying.  The tapes included are:

1.  Winning at losing: Discussion, Relaxation/Visualization 
2.  Body Beautiful: Discussion, Relaxation/Visualization
3.  Mind-talk: positive affirmations (audible and subliminal background)
4.  Quickbreak: Short Relaxation/Visualization sessions
5.  Subliminal: Super self-image and self-confidence
6.  Subliminal: be a winner at losing
7.  Subliminal: no more junk food
8.  Subliminal: maintain ideal weight

Also included are two extra tapes:
Body beautiful
Take control of your life

The package cost $75.  You have 30 days to send it back.

Should I send it back and just pick up one of the other tapes for $10-$20?  If
they work just as well, I don't want to spend $60 more than I have to.  Needless
to say, $75 was a great deal of money and it took care of my birthday present
for the next n years, but I wanted to try them badly.  I just got them, so I
don't even know how they will work on me yet.  The people that were on the ad
said they lost about 9lb/week.  Some slower, some faster. 

I didn't even know they were offered in book stores!  I thought it was something
you could only mail order.

Thanks.

Ln

    I purchased a Potentials Unlimited Subliminal Persuasion Self-Hypnosis
    casset tape for weight loss last night.  
    
    There were two one for $9.98 and one for $14.98.  Does anyone know
    what the difference is between the two?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joyce
    

       re .17:
       
       $5.00?
       
       --Mr Topaz

    Don, well I don't think I was tricked I bought the $9.98...but
    now I want to know what I missed.
    
    J
    
    P.S.  It might be working...

    Joe Land has a "new and improved" weightloss tape.
    I watched his paid advertisement this morning (late for work again!).
    I'm sending away for it -- $38 for one tape.
    If anyone else wants the phone number, send me mail...
    
    Karen

    My Joe Land Weightloss tape arrived in one week 
    (they promise delivery in two weeks).   
    
    There are two interesting things printed on the cassette itself:
    
     -- the phone number 1-800-533-LAND
    
     -- Warning:  This program is designed to affect a dimishment of 
        appetite.  It should not be used in the presence of others. 
        In the case of severe loss of appetite, discontinue use of 
        the tape immediately.
    
    Oooo! I can only hope for severe loss of appetite!
    Karen

	Hello!

	This is the first time I've looked at this conference, and it's
	because I'm desperate.

	I know I can lose weight with willpower - I've done it several
	times before, and gradually, or not so gradually, put it all back,
	and more.  I'd like to forget the willpower this time, and try one
	of these tapes.  I don't really believe that it will work for me -
	someone tried to hypnotize me once, and failed.

        The problem is that I'm in Valbonne, France.  Could someone please
        help me to get one of these tapes?  The one from POTENTIALS
        UNLIMITED seems to have been effective for some of you, and was not
        among the more expensive, so I'd like to try to get hold of one of
        these.  

        I'd find it a bit difficult to pay in dollars, but perhaps I could
        buy mail order from somewhere that takes VISA cards.  If anyone has
        a spare brochure or an order form from a company that is willing to
        send a tape overseas and take Visa payment, could you please pop it
	into the internal mail to

		Delia Haldane @VBE (Algo 1)

	Alternatively, if anyone has a tape they've finished with (or a
	copy) that they could let me have, we could sort out payment
	through colleagues who travel between here and the States.

	Any other ideas on how I can quickly get hold of a tape?  Anyone
	coming over willing to bring one and be paid in francs?  I'd even
	take you out for a meal!   ;-)

	I'd really be grateful for any help you can give me.
	
	Thanks,

	Delia

        PS  France is not exactly the best place to be on a diet.  It was
	    somehow much easier in England!!!

    You've lost weight before, then put it back on, right? The trouble with
    *diets* is that you (and many others) lose the wieght and then revert
    to your old way of life and boom-boom, on goes the weight again.
    
    By all means buy the tapes, but plan what you'll do afterwards.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    
    /andy/

	Andy,

	I thought that the whole point about these tapes is that they
	change your attitudes to food and eating, so that you do not
	consciously go on a diet; rather, you subconsciously modify your
	behaviour.

        I intend, if I can get hold of a tape, and *if* it works, to keep
        listening until the modified eating (and drinking!) habits become a
        way of life and, after that, if the scales show I'm slipping back,
        I'll listen some more.

	That's *if* it works...

	Delia

    Well, it _sounds_ great. Does it whisper "you don't like sugar"? :-)

    Re: .24
    
    >I thought that the whole point about these tapes is that they change 
    >your attitudes to food and eating, so that you do not consciously go
    >on a diet; rather, you subconsciously modify your behaviour.
    
    I'd rather have my attitudes change in ways that I want them to, rather 
    than in the way someone else thinks they ought to.  I also think it's
    important to learn what your current attitudes are and how they got to
    that point.  If those same forces are still at work, your attitudes
    will probably start shifting back once you stop using the tape.  I
    could see a subliminal tape as *part* of a weightloss plan, but not the
    entire plan.

    The eating problems are yours for whatever reason you've chosen to eat. 
    And we all eat for a reason.  The only method is to clear away those
    fears and go from there.  Remember sometimes it takes years to realise
    what those fears are and that you are ready to face up to them.
    
    I've tried all those tapes and yes they do work for about two weeks,
    but until I changed nothing worked permanently.
    
    I'm going through a very traumatic time at the moment.  Some very very
    unsettling news and a major decision to be made.  I haven't had
    chocolate, haven't done anything abnormal from my normal eating program
    and haven't wanted to.  Its just my way of life now, something I
    HAVE to do to get an Elle McPherson bod.  No upsets make a difference
    in the way I am NOW.
    
    ...dale

        Re: .26
    
>   I'd rather have my attitudes change in ways that I want them to, rather 
>   than in the way someone else thinks they ought to.

        How would you suggest that one consciously change one's
        subconscious attitudes?  If it were easy (or even possible on one's
        own), there'd be very few fat people.  (There would always be those
        that subconsciously _want_ to be fat.)
	
>							I also think it's
>   important to learn what your current attitudes are and how they got to
>   that point.  If those same forces are still at work, your attitudes
>   will probably start shifting back once you stop using the tape.  I
>   could see a subliminal tape as *part* of a weightloss plan, but not the
>   entire plan.

        Again, how do you learn what your _subconscious_ attitudes are?
	We can, of course, have a good guess.

	My childhood was spent in London at a time when food was rationed.
	Even so, my mother's side of the family all managed to be decidedly
	plump.  It could be inherited metabolism, or it could be inherited
	attitudes.  I don't pretend to know.
	
        Like all young children at the time, I was fed bottled orange juice
        and cod-liver oil, provided, I think, by the Ministry of Health.  I
        was considered to be underweight, and was given extra milk when I
        started school, and, at school, we were made to eat everything that
        was put in front of us.

	At secondary school, leaving food on one's plate was a capital
	offence - well, at least, you were hauled up in front of the
	headmistress.  Food was valuable, food was precious, food was
	God-given, and we should appreciate how lucky we were to have it.
	We said grace before and after each school dinner.  Some girls
	managed to smuggle out paper bags full of food they didn't want to
	eat.  Heaven knows what would have happened if they'd been caught!

        Another thing that sticks in my mind was a phrase I often heard my
        parents use.  Whenever there was some special treat, like bananas
        or nuts, or when the meat ration just wasn't going to stretch far
	enough, one of them would say: "Save it for the children."  The
	fact that this has stuck in my memory for so many years might mean
	that I feel guilty about not eating everything available.  On the
	other hand, I might just be using that as an excuse.  I can't read
	my subconscious mind.  I get a message that says:

	      -SYSTEM-F-NOPRIV, no privilege for attempted operation

        So I can only guess at what my attitudes really are.  No doubt they
        are quite complex.  If listening to a tape can change them so that
        the effect is that I eat less, I'll take the risk that the new
        attitudes might not be quite what I would choose.  According to
        people who have tried the tapes, the effects are not permanent, 	
        (Hardly surprising.  You wouldn't really expect to undo in two
        weeks the work of a lifetime, would you?) so if you don't like
        what the subliminal messages are telling you, you can stop
        listening.

        Supposing the tape works, and, subconsciously, you begin to change
        your eating habits.  If you keep at it for long enough, these new
        habits will become normal for you, you'll be retraining yourself;
        but, if the underlying attitudes that caused the problem are still
        there, and cause you to drift back to the old eating patterns,
        what's to stop you using the tape again for another few weeks?

        All this is supposing that the tapes work.  I am the sort of
        sceptical person who is not easily cured by placebos; however, I
        really would like to try, as I cannot see that the tapes can be
        harmful.  Will any kind soul out there please help me to get hold
        of one?  I promise to report in this Conference on my progress, or
	lack of it.

	See reply .22 for my original request.

	Regards,

	Delia

    Re: .28
    
    >How would you suggest that one consciously change one's subconscious 
    >attitudes?  If it were easy
    
    It isn't.  But the whole concept of therapy is based upon the conscious
    alteration of subconscious attitudes.
    
    >Again, how do you learn what your _subconscious_ attitudes are?  We
    >can, of course, have a good guess.
    
    I'd get some help from someone who's used to tracking them down.  My
    nutritionist also has a degree in counselling.  Recently we got into
    the issue of why I cling so strongly to Classic Coke.  During the
    discussion, I came up with a few ideas.  However, after I left, I also
    found other reasons.  It's somewhat similar to your situation.  I was
    one of five children in a family with one income.  Having Coke in the
    house was a treat.  As our finances improved, we had Coke more often. 
    I know that I frequently felt deprived of a "normal" life as a
    teenager.  I suspect that Coke became a symbol of financial security
    and independence.  Once I was on my own and making a living, I used
    Coke to tell myself that I was secure.  When I put the pieces together,
    I found that Coke didn't hold quite the allure and I didn't have this
    nagging sense of deprivation.  I can't prove that this is my real
    subconscious attitude.  However, pulling it out into the light has made
    a difference, so I'm fairly confident that this was one of the
    problems.  The proof is in the pudding, so to speak....
    
    >So I can only guess at what my attitudes really are.  No doubt they
    >are quite complex.  If listening to a tape can change them so that the 
    >effect is that I eat less
    
    I think it unlikely that the tapes change attitudes so much as
    behavior, since behavior is more universal than attitudes.  For
    example, the tape probably tells you that you don't want to eat sugar. 
    If some other part of your mind is telling you that you need to be fat,
    then you could just as easily overindulge in some other direction.
    
    >but, if the underlying attitudes that caused the problem are still
    >there, and cause you to drift back to the old eating patterns, what's 
    >to stop you using the tape again for another few weeks?
    
    Nothing.  It strikes me as exchanging one crutch (food) for another
    (the tape), but each person is responsible for deciding what they can
    cope with and what they're willing to accept.  As I said before, I can
    see using the tape as part of a weight loss program, but I wouldn't
    place my reliance on it alone.  You mileage might vary.

    
    	Arrrgh!
    
    	I just read somewhere that there is not one single study that has
    conclusively shown that subliminal motivation tapes work, and that
    there are many that conclude they are ineffective.

	If I can dig up the article, I'll post it.

	It came about in light of Judas Priest's trial and all the furor
    re: backmasking.  Someone presented evidence from studies on all known
    forms of subliminal audial encoding (masked by music or noise, recorded
    backwards, etc) and almost every study concluded that the message can
    not be understood.  A few were inconclusive.  Not one single study
    concluded audial subliminals of any kind worked.

-mike z

    Good Morning America interviewed two men this morning -- one who makes
    "subliminal" tapes, where the message is masked by music; the other whose
    stance was that this method DOESN'T work (except via the placebo effect --
    in other words, you spend the money on the tape, you tell yourself that
    it will work, and you credit your modified behaviors to the tape).

    He distinguished "subliminal perception" from messages MASKED by other
    sounds -- it wasn't all that clear to me -- but he seemed to say that
    in order for "subliminal perception" to take place, you have to be able
    to HEAR it.  And all of the studies ( >800 ) say that "subliminal
    perception" works.  His main argument was that audio MASKING of messages
    was NOT subliminal perception, just hocus pocus.

    What was NOT clear in this brief interview was just WHAT IS "subliminal
    perception".  Or maybe I just missed it...perhaps someone else saw
    this interview and can add to this??

    -Geri

    The only kind of subliminal perception I'm familiar with is visual. 
    The classic example is with movies.  They insert 1 frame with a picture
    of popcorn into the movie every n frames.  They don't try to cover up
    or disguise the picture.  However, it's only one frame, so you see it
    for less than a second.  Your conscious mind doesn't register a picture
    of popcorn.  However, your subconscious mind apparently notices it and
    soon develops an interest in popcorn.
    
    I'm not sure how well extremely short exposure would work with sound,
    though.  Words are symbols and there's a certain amount of processing
    to translate the symbol into the concept.  You'd need to hear several
    words together, since a single word usually can't express a great deal.
    Visual images don't need a lot of processing.  I suppose subliminal
    sound would be at a volume just below the conscious level of hearing. 
    Consciously you'd be hearing silence.

	I haven't heard of any studies on visual cues such as the
    frame inserts you mention, Jody.

	I remember that the movie theatres used to coupled those
    brief flashes along with the smell of popcorn and raising the
    temperature in the cinema.

	The result was they sold more soda and popcorn.

	I haven't heard of a study on just the visual cues - I
    seriously doubt they work at all.

-mike z