Conference rocks::weight_control

293.0. "Diet Posting Policy" by SRFSUP::GOLDSMITH (Only 65.9% of my former self.) Wed Jun 01 1988 16:56

    Discussion on the topic of the Diet Posting Policy moved here, all
    replies to date have been moved to this note:
    
        
         <<< SRFSUP::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WEIGHTLOSS.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< Weightloss and Maintenance >-
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Note 1.26                           Welcome!                            26 of 33
CSC32::G_MCINTOSH "Touch not the cat, bot the glove" 15 lines  31-MAY-1988 20:05
                             -< Neal DON'T DO IT! >-
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    Neal, don't do this!  
    
    It's through the discussion of these things that we learn what 
    is good and what is bad.  It's through the discussion of these 
    things that we are alerted to the traps before we fall into them.  
    Don't limit the scope of this notes file because you think we 
    *may* become ill.  Allow the free flow of information, so that we 
    know better and *don't* become ill.
    
    Don't censor us because you're afraid for us!  Let's talk about
    things before they occur to us.  I want to hear what people have to
    say.  I want to know all the diets out there and the harms associated
    with them.  Don't keep people from saying it!
    
    Glenn
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CADSE::SPRIGGS "Darlene..Making Music ALL THE TIME!"  9 lines   1-JUN-1988 06:10
                             -< Please reconsider >-
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    Here's another vote for not hiding the notes and not limiting
    discussion.  I am mostly read only, but I have learned so much from
    the discussions of the different diets.  I am more able to recognize
    problems in diets I hear about because of the knowledge of the people
    who write here.  I know that most of these people are not experts
    in the field, but it gives me something to look into.  I think this
    notes file would be greatly hurt by not allowing these discussions.
    
    D.
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HPSCAD::WHITMAN "Acid rain burns my BASS"            20 lines   1-JUN-1988 06:49
                        -< please don't limit reports >-
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Neal,

	I too vote (if I have one) to keep REPORTS on given 'diets' and diet
plans open.  Your point is very well taken about 'recommendations' and 'playing
doctor', but a lot of benefit comes from the readers hearing how this plan or
that plan worked or did not work for an individual.  By all means hide those
topics and replies which PROMOTE ("you should do ...blah blah blah...") a
specific nutrition scheme, but please don't deny us reports on results of a
given diet plan.

	I realize I am describing a very fine line.  It's hard to distiguish
between a report on 'what worked for me' (okay) from 'this is what you should
do' (not okay).  It's distinguishing the reporter from the salesman.

	I appreciate your concern about liability, but I believe the number
of topics/replies which could be construed as being 'promotions' are very
limited.

		Thanks for your consideration,
					Al
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ARGUS::CORWIN "I don't care if I AM a lemming"       19 lines   1-JUN-1988 08:01
                          -< another concerned noter >-
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For the record...

I also understand Neal's concerns with playing doctor in here.  We definitely
shouldn't be telling each other what to do nutritionally, but we should be
able to disseminate information that we have gained ourselves in order to
better direct others, and, as Glenn said, PREVENT others from becoming
ill by providing appropriate information and resources.  We can also direct
others to learn more about things that have indeed worked for us.  What is
the difference between posting the XYZ diet for informational purposes, and
informing everyone that the ABC Organization meets in the FOO facility on
Wednesdays?

There is always a fine line to cross between acceptable and non-acceptable
information in conferences, and it is the moderator who must decide where
this line is.  As several of us have already stated, and I'm sure lots of us
have not stated, we are very concerned where this line will be drawn to best
help, and to do the least harm to us.

Jill
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Note 1.30                           Welcome!                            30 of 33
SRFSUP::GOLDSMITH "Only 65.9% of my former self."    29 lines   1-JUN-1988 09:00
                           -< Policy Clarification >-
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    For the record:
    
    Discussion of any given diet is acceptable and welcome. The intention
    of the policy is the prohibit the posting of the diet being discussed.
    
    Information one has heard about a given diet, diet center, etc.,
    are fine. Details as to the diets food plans are strictly
    out-of-bounds.
    
    I have discussed this with other conference members and the consciences
    is that this is a good idea. I feel by providing potentially dangerous
    diets, we (the moderators and members) are putting fellow DECies
    at risk. I can't tell anyone what to do, however, I can protect
    the conference it self from being at risk.
    
    The notes of the type that will be hidden actually make up a very
    small percentage of the notes in this conference. In most cases,
    only the base note of a diet topic will be hidden.
    
    Neither myself, nor any of the moderators are Certified Health
    Professionals. We can not decide what is healthy or not. Therefore,
    the posting of Food Plans (diets), Vitamin Dosages, and symptom
    diagnosis are prohibited in WEIGHTLOSS.
    
    I hope this clears things up.
    
    							--- Neal
                     
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ARGUS::CORWIN "I don't care if I AM a lemming"        3 lines   1-JUN-1988 10:13
                                  -< thanks >-
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Thanks for clearing that up, Neal.

Jill
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ANGORA::ZARLENGA "Give me liberty or give me debts"  21 lines   1-JUN-1988 11:30
                        -< censorship is not necessary >-
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	I also believe that hiding diet plans is not a good idea.
    
    	The only way to prevent people from getting sick on a public
    diet is to detail the potential problems with that diet.  This
    cannot be done if the diet plan is censored.
    
    	My proposed solution is to allow posting of diet plans along
    with a disclaimer in WEIGHTLOSS that depending on your state of
    health, dieting may be dangerous.  I have also offered to single
    step through all the diets, and list potential problems and de-
    ficiencies, as my time permits.
    
    	EVERY SINGLE DIET PLAN, INCLUDING THE TYPICAL AMERICAN DIET
    AND WEIGHT WATCHER'S CAN BE DANGEROUS!!!  Some are safer than
    others, but ALL diets can be dangerous.  To be consistent with
    the proposed policy would mean that no one would be allowed to
    discuss a food plan of any kind, including a list of what I ate
    today.
    
    -mike z
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Note 1.33                           Welcome!                            33 of 33
CSC32::G_MCINTOSH "Touch not the cat, bot the glove" 22 lines   1-JUN-1988 13:36
                            -< Disagree...Goodbye >-
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        Well Neal, I disagree with your imposed censorship.  I don't believe
    that *you* should be keeping me from reading information because you 
    think I *may* become ill.  I know you've been through a tough time
    recently and you're scared for us, but don't impose that on me.
    I thought the exchange of ideas, concerns, diets, things that worked 
    for me and maybe you, etc., was the aim of a notes file and I'm sorry 
    to see that exchange be limited because you think it may be bad for us.
    As you said, you're *not* a doctor.
    
    Censorship, regardless of the intent, doesn't sit well with me.     
    
    Because of the action that you have taken, and the fact that you
    won't change that action regardless of the wishes of the people
    in this file, I feel compelled to withdraw from this notes file.  
    I enjoyed the lively discussion we all had, and I know I learned 
    many things.  I'm sorry you'll not be able to hear all the ideas 
    people have or hear the warnings on things before you fall into 
    traps, for these items are forbidden.
    
    Glenn
    
    

    
    The only restriction is on the posting of the actual diet, NOT
    DISCUSSION on a diet. This represents a very small number of current
    notes, and an even smaller percentage of the activity in this
    conference. 
    
    This is a restriction because it opens Digital and the moderators
    of this conference up to liability should someone become ill, or
    even die from information read in this conference. This is not
    censorship!
    
    If you would like to exchange diets then there is always VAXmail.
    I should point out that most diets are copywritten, and as such
    it is against corporate policy to post them, UNDER PENALTY OF
    DISMISSAL.
    
    I feel as though some of you are overreacting to an otherwise small
    restriction. There are well over 100 users that access this conference
    daily, of them under 10 have voiced any concern.
    
    To set it clear, once and for all:
    
    I am protecting Digital, the moderators and this conference by
    instituting this policy. It's chief purpose is not to protect the
    reader, but the medium that the information is being provided on.
    
    What is okay:
    
    	- Discussion of a Diet, problems, etc.
    
    	- Mentioning a new diet that is available
    
    	- Telling someone where they can find a diet
    
    What is not okay:
    
    	- Posting a diets food plan
    
    	- Posting Vitamin dosages
    
    							--- Neal

OK. For the record, I'm against the restriction of diet posting.
Although I'm not very active in contributing to this notes file,
I find it difficult to discuss or understand a particular diet
without having the specifics of that diet spelled out to me.  Just
having someone write "Diet XYZ is great" and someone else say "No,
XYZ is not good for you" doesn't give ME the opportunity to make
judgement for myself.

I've gotten a lot out of reading this conference.  I read it regularly.
Most of what I get out of it is good information on eating and nutrition.
As a secondary benefit, I get encouragement.  But, my main reason for
reading this is for information on specific eating plans (I hate the
word 'diet').

I understand the copyright rules.  I understand the intent that this
restriction has.  But, ultimately everybody makes their own decisions and
you can't protect people from themselves.  I guess I just don't like 
censorship.

I'm not flaming anybody.  I'm just making my opinion known.

					Maryann

PS - Does this restriction also apply to the posting of recipes?
     Where do we draw the line?

    Re:  .2
    
    >Where do we draw the line?
    
    Well, I'll venture a guess.  We draw the line when it comes to playing
    doctor.  Although several people who participate in this conference
    may have a good background in nutrition, my guess is that none of
    them are certified to practice medicine.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Even if someone *IS* a doctor, I imagine there would be some legal
    liabililty if they aren't currently employed as a doctor at Digital.
    Furthermore, no qualified doctor (employed by Digital or not) would
    prescribe something without examining the patient.  
    
    Posting specific diets and vitamin dosages is a form of making a
    blanket prescription.  I can fully understand the legal implications
    of doing that and completely support Neal's (Digital's) policy.  
    
    It's not censorship.  You have a right to the information as Neal
    said, either through VAXmail, or by going out and buying the book
    or whatever.  We are extremely fortunate to have NOTES available
    to us.  We are lucky that we can have these kinds of discussions
    and can glean valuable information from people who are more knowledgable
    than we are.  Why not look at the *positive* side?  How many other
    companies support this kind of interchange for non-job related issues?
    Let's focus on and appreciate the "have's" instead of letting the
    "have nots" eat us up.
    
    This is not a flame.  Just a personal opinion.
    
    Heather
           

    My opinion, though late in the discussion is that people in this
    file are not children and are used to reading and understanding 
    information then making a choice.  It is not DEC's responsibility for 
    individual choices.  As a parent I don't even censor my daughter
    to the extent that Neal is in this file.  It's too bad that excessive
    moderation is now taking place in the file.  By leaving out the
    ingredients of a diet, limits the conversation.
    Though obviously Neal is going to do whatever he wants anyway its
    sad that noone but him had a say in the matter.  all it needed is
    a disclaimer in the rules and intro section that the information
    contained in this file is not a recommendation of any type and that
    DEC is not responsible for anything in this file.  
    
    oh well.......
    
    vivian
    colorado notesfile moderator