Conference rocks::weight_control

    
    Re .0:
    
    I found slow but total disaster. I now look at my fast as a quick
    cure pointed at my symptoms, not my problem. I am a Compulsive
    Overeater, and am in the grips of a progressive disease. Only when
    I work on the cause of my eating, will I bring the problem under
    control, there is no cure for me. I eat right for a while, only
    to find myself worse off then before. Some have the strength to
    rise above the food, I didn't.
    
    							--- Neal
    

    I was on a doctor-supervised juice fast about 6 years ago, and I
    remember that I was cautioned to come off of it very slowly and
    sensibly.  I remember that my first "meal" after the fast was a
    salad, which tasted delicious, but seemed an overwhelming amount
    of food.  I found myself eating very slowly and enjoying every morsel.
    My tastes seemed to exclude rich foods and/or sweet/oily foods,
    but that only lasted until I got back into my old, destructive eating
    habits.
    
    The best thing I have done for myself is join Weight Watchers and
    follow their balanced eating plan.  But good luck on your fast.
    I hope it works better (long-term) for you than it did for me.
    
    Lynn

    I frankly cannot understand the concept behind fasting.  Why would
    you want to deny you body's hunger drive?  To lose weight?  You
    can eat as much as you like and lose weight.  So if that's not the
    reason, then what?  
    
    I also don't understand the phrase about "what western culture calls
    hunger".  Is there a difference?  When my stomach start gnarling
    at me, I believe that is hunger.  So I eat.  What's the difference?
    
    Glenn

    re .3:
    
    >	...You can eat as much as you like and lose weight.... 
        
    Could you provide a further explanation?
    
    
    Thanks,
    Paul

    RE .3
    
    In third world or other less fortunate countries, hunger is when
    there is nothing else in the body to live off of (fat,etc.).  This
    is true hunger.  What most of us experience is a physical temper 
    tantrum when we are not given the amount of food that we are accustomed
    to.  Many of us can live for quite some time on our fat reserves alone.
    After fighting off the initial temptation to eat because we are
    "hungry", the physical desire for food really starts to deminish.
    
    As for why a person would want to fast apart from weightloss, it
    is to gain the discipline to put down all extreme desires of the
    flesh.  Americans especially are a VERY over-indulgent people. 
    We are so caught up in what makes us feel good that we are becoming
    a very weak nation.  Being able to say no to food puts a person
    in a much better position to say no to other things as well.  It
    is only for a certain period of time, and like I said, most of us
    can live for DAYS without food and will probably be more healthy
    (not to mention slimmer) afterwards.  After a couple of days of
    fasting, the battle with the body ends.  You realize that the real
    war is in your mind.  You are no longer "hungry", but you want to
    eat.  Overcoming this temptation is what helps to build the discipline.
    
    Anyway, that's it.
    
    d.
    
    P.S. -- Complete fasting (only water) should not be done over 30-40
    days.  Partial fasting (one meal, juice only,etc), can be done for longer
    periods of time with proper dietary supplements.  In either case,
    when true hunger sets in, it is time to eat or else you will literally
    starve.  A doctor's care is strongly recommended for those trying
    to lose weight.  People with diabetes, and pregnant women should
    NEVER fast.

    
    Another reason to fast is to isolate food allergies.  "Dr. Mandell's
    5-day Allergy Relief System" talks about this -- the 5 days are spent
    fasting (spring water only).  The first 3 are pure h*ll, as you go
    through withdrawal from the foods to which you are addicted.  Then,
    you eat one different food for each meal, watching for reactions.
    
    This is how I found out about my wheat allergy; I'm much healthier
    since I stopped eating wheat altogether.  
    
    Beverly
    

    re: .4  
    
    Paul, note 200 is really started for as an explanation for eating
    as much as you like and still losing weight.  
    
    Glenn

    re .7:
    
    Thanks Glen.
    
    FWIW, Weight Watchers revised their plan back in December.  Three
    of the main changes were:
    
    	Reduction in the amount of daily protien exchanges
                                         
    	Addition of another bread exchange
    
    	Increase in the minimum number of daily required vegetable 
    	exchanges
    
    These changes are all in accord with the principles of the plan
    that you've outlined in Note 200 and a few other notes in this
    conference.
    
    
    py

                    Liquid Diets Are Short Term Solutions
    
    	Thanks to Oprha Winfrey, liquid diets are regaining popularity.
     But studies of 3 common liquid diets - Optifast by Sandoz, Medifast
    by the Nutrition Institute of Maryland, and HMR by Health Management
    Resources - show that they work only temporarily.
    
    	In one study, only 2,717 of 4,026 obese patients who started
    a 26-week Optifast diet stuck with it.  Of these, 33% reached their
    desired goal weight, but fewer than 50% of those members were still
    within 10 pounds of that weight 18 months later.
    
    	In sum, only 15% of the patients who started the diet suceeded
    in permanently losing weight.  Most failed because they returned
    to their old eating habits almost immediately.
    
    	The best way is still the simplest and the least expensive:
    learn to eat less [ or better  /mz ] and exercise more.

    The article quoted in .9 discounted the current wave of liquid
    diets because only 15% of participants lost and kept all of their
    weight off.  
    
    This figure, though low, is not compared to success rate on other
    programs.  Does anyone know how they compare to more traditional
    methods?
    
    -Joe

    	There's a new risk on the already iffy road of rapid weight loss:
    painful gallstones.  A recent study warns that obese people who embark
    on very-low-calorie diets are prone to them.

    	Gastroenterologist Rodger A Liddle, MD, of the University of
    California at San Francisco put 51 obese men and women on a 500
    calorie-per-day diet for 8 weeks.  About one-quarter of them developed
    gallsotnes - 3 required gallbladder surgery.

    	The gallbladder is a 3-inch long organ that stores the bile used
    to digest fats; gallstones are hard mases made largely of cholesterol. 
    While obesity heightens the risk of gallstones, ironically, so does
    fasting.  When the digestive system isn't processing food, unneeded
    bile sits in the gallbladder and becomes saturated with cholesterol,
    forming gallstones.

    	Liddle believes that eventually it should be possible to identfy
    which obeses people are at highest risk for galbladder disease and
    to gibe them gallstne-dissolving drugs when they go on a diet.

    	In the meantime, it makes sense to shed pounds SLOWLY.

    	
                            Longevity, Feb90, p13

re:    < Note 190.11 by MILKWY::ZARLENGA "feel how it trembles inside" >
                      -< fasting can lead to gallstones >-

	Just one data point.  My mother just got out of the hospital
    with one less gall bladder.  She has recently lost about 100 lbs
    on optifast and  the optifast break/diet.  This is the newer supposedly
    safer optifast.
    
    I am sure it had something to do with losing all that weight, but
    I am not sure that it is because she was on 'optifast'.  I have
    heard that people on Weight Watchers who loose a great amount
    of weight are also more likely to get gallstones.
    
    Just some thoughts,
    Amy