| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 5.1 | | LILAC::ZORE | I'm the NRA! | Thu Nov 16 1989 18:26 | 5 |
| I've always been partial to the synthtic bags, nice to crawl into even when
soaking wet and they dry out fairly quickly. Poncho liners were always a
nice item too.
Rich
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| 5.2 | how about a nice big diesel engine? | ZPOV03::HWCHOY | FE110000 | Sun Jun 03 1990 15:52 | 6 |
| I ride around in an M113 APC. As vehicle commander, I get the right to
lie on "top" of the engine grille. This usually gives enought warmth
to last till morning. But before you go out to try it, I'm in the
tropics and temperature at night averages 22-26�C.
hw
|
| 5.3 | | PEKING::NASHD | | Mon Jun 04 1990 09:09 | 7 |
| H,
( & .1) thanks for the tips. I was kind of hoping for the secret
of keeping warm at sub-zero temperatures. Things like 5 layers of
Norgie shirts and a silk T-shirt plus.....
Dave
|
| 5.4 | | FLDSVC::STERLING | Aye Matey, Shiver me Timbers! | Wed Jun 06 1990 18:39 | 18 |
| re .2 HW
Just curious, but why do you have the "right" to lie on the engine
grill over the driver who maintains the vehicle, or the man on guard
or any other member of the crew/squad for that matter.
Beware of the effect on morale by claiming small comforts away from
the men who serve under you. It's a small thing but it can mean
a lot to a man laying on the cold ground watching his leader sleep
in comfort.
Remember that sharing such small comforts can be well worth the
gain in esprit de corps.
Dave the ex-M113 driver and subsequent vehicle commander who believed
in sharing such small comforts with his men as fairly as the mission
permitted. HHC 1/6 Inf, 1st AD 1978-1981.
|
| 5.5 | It's my right to lie on whatever's left by the time I come back from OPS orders | ZPOV03::HWCHOY | FE110000 | Fri Jun 08 1990 17:58 | 27 |
| whow! hot flames!
anyway, calm down mate.
As non-front-end combatants (we're combat engineers so we hang-out
around the Bn HQ), only 1 member in a section mans the .5 Browning on
rotation. The driver and Veh Cmd (which is also the section leader) is
exempted. The driver gets to sleep in the driver's compartment (I've
tried it once, very comfortable position), the man sleeps INSIDE the
M113, the GPMG gunners sleep next to the MGs, and some lucky chap will
grab the stretcher. Believe me, the men are quite comfortable. Also
they have groundsheets to cover them.
On the other hand, the engine grille is really bad for you ASS and
BACK, cos it's actually 2 grilles with a depression in between, and
then you have to remember not to sit up and ram your head against the
Browning barrel. I always sleep fully clothed because I'm usually
needed at short notice. Besides I only get warm from the bottom, I'd
rather sleep inside anytime.
Convinced? :)
hw
ps: me curious too, how did you Caucasians ever manage to squeeze 12
man into that thing? We Asians find it a tight fit already. And in cold
weather, how would you guys sleep? I'm sure you can't sleep outside.
|
| 5.6 | | FLDSVC::STERLING | Aye Matey, Shiver me Timbers! | Fri Jun 08 1990 20:36 | 20 |
|
re .5
Not flaming you, sorry for giving you the wrong impression.
I'm also sorry for not realizing differences between the SOPs
of different countries. In the US Army of my day sleeping *inside*
APCs was a strict no no after several carbon monoxide suffocations
(course that dosen't mean it was never done, you just didn't want
to get caught doing it). The US Army has this habit of banning
anything that ever hurt anybody no matter how stuupid they were.
I remember the year they banned Yukon stoves after sombody blew
one of them up accidently. Germany gets mighty cold in the winter
time...
As far as how we all fit inside; brotherly love, man, brotherly
love... Beats walkin'.
Dave
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| 5.7 | | ZPOV03::HWCHOY | FE110000 | Sun Jun 17 1990 15:57 | 16 |
| Carbon monoxide? You mean you guys leave the engines running in the
night? (In which case I WILL NOT sleep on the engine grille for
anything :).
In contrast to your no-sleeping-IN-APC rules, we are actually required
NOT to sleep outside the APC, ie you can either sleep inside, on top
and whatever else you can think of as long as you remain ON the APC,
this is because there has been cases where soldiers get crushed while
sleeping on the ground.
One way we handle this is to cooperate with other APCs, usually other
sections in the same platoon, where we will park the APCs side by side
so hemmocks can be slung between them. Of course this may not work in
cold weather.
hw
|
| 5.8 | | FLDSVC::STERLING | Aye Matey, Shiver me Timbers! | Mon Jun 18 1990 14:55 | 27 |
|
Interesting. I guess the difference lies mainly in the environment.
Y'see in Germany, in the winter the tracks engines must be run
every couple hours or so to keep them warm lest they decide not
to start when it comes time to move out. That's in addition to
having to run them to keep radios from draining the battery.
Since the ground is much less foliated, especially in winter, driver
visibility is somewhat better and if the squad or platoon leader
keeps a fair eye as to where the men are bedding down then it makes
sense to keep the troops outside of the track. Also if the track
is hit by ATG or arty fire it won't take out the squad too.
The disadvantage to this is that it takes much longer to get the
troops loaded if they have to haul butt during the night. There
is also the chance that someone may still be missed and be run over.
In your climate, the jungles thick underbrush makes it nigh impossible
to see a man sleeping on the ground and other than radios there
is not a need to run the engines all night to keep them from freezing
up. Hence it makes more sense to keep the troops aboard the track.
An added advantage is the ability to exit the AO rapidly. The
disadvantage to this is that one artillery shell, one RPG, etc and
the whole squad is knocked out.
Dave
|
| 5.9 | | ZPOV01::HWCHOY | FE110000 | Mon Jun 18 1990 15:52 | 24 |
| your points are very interesting. However, we usually train in open
terrain, usually of low bush to high lallang (grass of 1 to 4 feet
high). We do not (the armour) as a rule operate in closed terrain (ie
thick jungles) as it is extremely difficult to move about.
Bear in mind that the Singapore Armed Forces is new (started 1967,
reluctantly because the British decided to withdrew their troops),
never fired a shot in anger, and learned most of our tactics from
Israel (they're the only people willing to help us set up the Armed
Forces at that time), a lot of our equipment we got from Israel too!
However due to safety conciousness, we threw out a lot of doctrines
that may endanger the troops (like not allowing the troops to sit on
the APC while moving in case they get thrown overboard). Human resource
is extremely precious with our 2.6 million population.
hw
ps: does your APC runs on gas? ours run on diesel.
pps: do you wear your SBO (Skeleton Battle Order, webbing,...) while
standing/getting in-out of the driver/commanders' hatch? I find it a
very tight fit with my ammo pouch, bino, water bottle, bayonets and
grenades all dangling from my waist. How can you Caucasians with your
Humongous girth get in and out??
|
| 5.10 | | FLDSVC::STERLING | Aye Matey, Shiver me Timbers! | Mon Jun 18 1990 17:29 | 27 |
| re .9
Well, the grass in Europe grows wild up to around 2 feet. Most
of the time it's not more than inches high so it still is easier
to see people lying on the ground. I realize that armor needs
open terrain but I've seen what you guys call open and there's a
big difference between that and a German farmers field, or for that
matter, a German forest with its bare forest floors.
Of course remember that the allies figured that the Ardennes Forest
was too difficult for armor to maneuver in, and we know the result
of that thinking...
Regarding battle gear, rarely will a TC or driver wear LBE (which
is what we call it) while manning the positions. Especially in
the winter when we're all bundled up. Gear like that is usually
kept handy. On the other hand gas masks are kept strapped around
our chests. If any of the crew (passengers excepted) is wearing
LBE it would probably be the TC as the hatch is a little bigger.
I never had much of a problem getting in and out although my shoulders
scraped some in the drivers hatch. Of course then I was in my late
teens early twenties and I was 20-30lbs lighter and 15 years nimbler
too.
Dave
|
| 5.11 | A tarp, evergreen boughs, and mummy bags | DPDMAI::HYDE | DB Forever -- Data Redundancy Never | Thu Dec 06 1990 15:13 | 30 |
| A Tarp above, evergreen boughs beneath, and two mummy bags.
I went to USAF Survival school during the winter of '73. We were in
the mountains near Spokane, Washington. I believe the temperatures at
night were below 0�F.
Shelter:
We placed two tarps, about 8'-10' square, joined by parachute cord to
form a ridge-line over a low branch of an evergreen tree. The tarps
were dark, which also aided in camoflage.
Bedding:
We placed about 8"-12" of evergreen boughs on the ground for matting.
We used 2 GI-issue mummy bags. I believe most of the snow on the
ground the night before was still there under the evergreen boughs in
the morning, but I warm as toast at night.
Bottom Line:
This really kept us warm as well as concealed. When we broke camp, we
used the parachute cord and the tarps build our packs. We then
traveled to the next night's location. The dark color of the packs,
along with our flat-colored clothing, enabled us to evade as we
traveled.
Kurt,
USAF Reserve Retired
|
| 5.12 | Hi Kurt | LVSB::GAGNON | Iraqnophobia...catch it! | Thu Dec 06 1990 18:09 | 10 |
| > Kurt,
> USAF Reserve Retired
Hey I didn't know they let the Old Retired F*rts in this conference!
:-) :-)
Hey Kurt, nice to hear your still around!
Kevin
|