| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 383.1 | | QUOKKA::39702::SPICER | | Tue Apr 02 1996 00:19 | 10 |
| Cheri,
Typically you are expected to give reasonable (a few weeks) notice and
reciprocate when the NCP goes on vacation. Your mail doesn't suggest
any hostility, but if in doubt send a note listing the dates. When your
son is older it's normal to provide a number so his Dad can call him.
Martin
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| 383.2 | | MKOTS3::RAUH | I survived the Cruel Spa | Tue Apr 02 1996 07:48 | 21 |
| Making a calander a year ahead of time can be a good suggestion, thus
you can make advance planning well ahead of it all. Thus also, if there
is some un-forseen problem with visation, job, extended family, etc.
You can still have flexibility to make changes on the fly.
Despite some of my left-est writings here. I do get along with my ex. I
have even Invited her to our daughers birtday party. She helped me run
the show for 6 little girls and the Birthday girl.:) We, Eva and self,
still give mom flowers for her birthday, mothers day, and sometimes
something special for Christmas. I made changes to visatition due to a
death in the ex's family, gave extra time for Eva to visit family if
they wished, did what ever I could to make be there for them if they
wanted me. Offered to help clean out the deceast family members
apartment, offering truck and back to move stuff. For It is always it
the best interest for Eva, our daughter, that We can Still corporate as
best we can.
No one has to be a saint to make it work, just be humane about it all.
Peace
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| 383.3 | | CSC32::HADDOCK | Saddle Rozinante | Tue Apr 02 1996 08:53 | 14 |
|
He doesn't _have_ to let the child go, but degenerating into the
typical get-even-ism with the child in the middle does nobody,
especially the child, any good. If you can't agree on the
modifications, then the court will have to set stricter guidelines.
As I've said before, having a successful divorce often requires more
maturity than having a good marriage.
However, an offer to allow additional days at a later date to make
up for the missed time would probably be fair. Also allowing as much
time in advance as possible so that it doesn't disrupt the other
parents plans at the last minute usually is helpful.
fred();
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| 383.4 | vacation.. | TARKIN::VAILLANCOURT | | Tue Apr 02 1996 12:52 | 14 |
| There is no hostility whatsoever. We're both so flexible about visitation
our lawyers applauded us! All we both want is the absolute best for our
son. As each holiday approaches, I have offered him our son for the day
first (he's had him Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, and will on Easter - I
had him Halloween and Christmas Eve). I figure, I get him every day, he
should be able to have him on those special days (also because that
usually means our son seeing that side of the family, too) I expect him
to go away with his dad this summer, too. I just want to make sure I do
the 'right' thing. I already gave him a list of the dates a couple
months ago. He will know where we are and have the phone number.
And I would never think of not allowing our son to call his dad whenever
he wants when he's older (whenever he figures out that phone thing isn't
just a toy!)
|
| 383.5 | | CSC32::HADDOCK | Saddle Rozinante | Tue Apr 02 1996 13:16 | 14 |
|
Sounds like you both are on the right track as far as visitation
goes, anyway (I don't know about the rest of the stuff. Not saying
it is bad, just that I have no other information than what you've
entered).
You can't _force_ anyone to do anything other than exactly what the
court orders state. And you can only do that by going back to court.
No party can _force_ the other party to be reasonable. The only thing
you can do is be as reasonable as you can and hope the other person
will be also. To have a sane and reasonable conversation requires
_two_ (at least) sane and reasonable people.
fred();
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| 383.6 | Great concern for your son! | STOWOA::NOETH | Mike Noeth, DTN 276-9282 | Wed Apr 03 1996 08:02 | 11 |
| I think it's great that you've even considered the father's
wishes/needs in terms of seeing your son, as well as showing obvious
concern for your son's right to see his dad. I can't even relate to
it, since my own experience has been that my ex does everything she can
do prevent our daughter from seeing me, and when challenged on it, was
faced with a senile judge who didn't pay attention.
Your concern for your son is evident - and it sounds like ample notice
to your ex will enable both of you to juggle schedules fairly easily.
Mike
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| 383.7 | I want him to feel like he belongs in a family | TARKIN::VAILLANCOURT | | Thu Apr 04 1996 09:02 | 21 |
| re .6,
I don't want my son to become a 'victim' of his parents divorce. I
went through this when I was young, with both parents trying to play
the kids against the other parent. I wouldn't do it then, and I won't
do it now. I want him to be as close to his dad as he is to me (if
that's possible with divorced parents). He definately knows his dad,
even at 17 months. In fact, he turns from a momma's boy into a
daddy's boy the second he seems him, and it really bothers me when I
got to pick him up and he cries because he doesn't want to leave daddy.
It makes me feel mean and that this is not fair to him. Which it
isn't, but we (his parents) had to do what was right for us.
I just want him to grow up knowing how much both parents love him,
and just because his father and I could not stay married I would never
deny his dad the joy of being a father and the time to experience life
with him. When it's dad's day to visit, we share the driving. I
always make sure our son is dressed in some of his nicer clothes, and
make sure he brings everything he needs with him to dads.
After reading through other notes in this file, I find it really sad
that other divorced parents couldn't be as friendly as we are - for
the sake of the children as well as your own sanity.
Cheri
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| 383.8 | notesSounds like you are on the right track. | SALEM::PERRY_W | | Thu Apr 04 1996 11:22 | 16 |
|
Nice to hear a good story about children sharing their parents. There
are so many terrible story's in this notesfile regarding these issues.
My hats off to both of you!
I am a NC dad and when I want to have the children for a week or more I
try to let their mom know asap so we can resolve schedule conflicts.
She does the same for me and we get along pretty well.
I have the same kind of holiday schedule you have; I have the children
Christmass eve and she has them Christmass day and Thanksgiving.
My ex in-laws usually invite me over to their house so I am with the
children then too. The ex in-laws are super nice people.
Works out pretty well. I really respect your attitude towards your
former husband and the children, wish there were more like you.
Bill
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| 383.9 | | CSC32::HADDOCK | Saddle Rozinante | Thu Apr 04 1996 13:21 | 5 |
|
re .7 & .8
Yes it is good to hear some good stories for a change. Thanks.
fred();
|
| 383.10 | Now what do we do?????? | MROA::DUPUIS | | Fri Feb 14 1997 07:49 | 24 |
| Okay, what do we do now....
I am the CP on two girls (10 + *=8), we live with my boyfriend an
NCP (his son is 5). After many battles with his ex, his visitation
has been worked out to Wed and everyother weekend. He also has 1
week vacation this summer and 2 every summer after.
We have decided that we want to take the kids to Disney in October.
She said that she would love for us to take the son to Disney but
it would have to be in the summer. We are willing to not take him
for a week in the summer, but save that week until October. She
said no, that he could only go in the summer. We have several
reasons why we do not want to go to Disney in the summer the main
one is that the son suffers severly from asthma and the weather in
July or August would probably kill him.
Do we have any recourse? Could we take this to court and would a
judge actually rule on something like this? Would we need a lawyer
or just the kids medical records to show that the weather would be
a negative factor in the summer......
Thanks for what ever insight you may have
Roberta
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| 383.11 | | QUOKKA::2975::WAUGAMAN | | Fri Feb 14 1997 09:29 | 26 |
|
> Do we have any recourse? Could we take this to court and would a
> judge actually rule on something like this? Would we need a lawyer
> or just the kids medical records to show that the weather would be
> a negative factor in the summer......
The advice my attorney has given me (I am a CP, though) with regard
to out-of-state vacation plans, where the plans are completely
reasonable and the other party is only being difficult, is just to
make the plans, notify in writing in advance, and go. That places
the legal onus on the other party to prove that your completely
reasonable and beneficial vacation plans are somehow unreasonable
and harmful (a tough and likely unworthwhile task). I suppose
there's some risk of action and an unfavorable judgment, but my
personal philosophy, where I know I'm in the right, is that I'm
always ready and willing to go to court to defend myself. This
isn't legal advice, and might even be bad advice, but it's just
the way I live.
And yes, I have been threatened with the gratuitous "kidnapping"
charge, but never took it seriously and haven't had any problems--
I'm on vacation and I am coming back, they're my children too--
that ain't kidnapping.
glenn
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| 383.12 | Yeah, easy for you to say - you're a CP... | QUOKKA::30188::BELLEW | | Sat Feb 15 1997 08:38 | 78 |
|
Hi Glenn,
The big catch there is the little stuff - "(I am a CP, though)". For
an NCP to attempt this plan seems extremely risky IMHO. If stuck in
the same situation, I'd attack it from a "what's best for the child?"
stance and list out the factors (still in writing) and ask the CP if
he/she wanted to accept the risk of the medical situation. Nobody
wants to be blamed for their own child's suffering.
Just to relate an experience from the NCP's point of view:
Last spring vacation, my ex took a trip out of the country by herself
while I had my daughters (7 & 9) for school break. We decided to go
to Niagara Falls for the week. We crossed the bridge into Canada at
10PM after a long drive thru pouring rain. The girls were wearing
school jackets bought at a garage sale; the jackets had embroidered
names Sarah and Lauren. (side note: I wouldn't put my girls names on
a jacket to avoid undesirables approaching them already knowing their
names. So when the ex picked up used jackets from their school with
DIFFERENT names I decided that was great for kick-around jackets to
leave at my place). So we walk into Canandian customs. Like you,
Glenn, I have the notion that as long as I am doing what's best for
my kids, I'll just do it, but the rest of the world still sees a man
with two small girls trying to cross the border. The officer asks me
the usual "where you from?", "where you goin'?", "how long will you
be there?" type stuff and then turns his attention to the girls....
Q. "Where's your mommy?"
A. "Honduras"
Q. "Does she live there?"
A. "No, she just left yesterday"
Q. pointing to me... "Who's this?"
A. puzzled look "Dave?"
At this point I realize what he's driving at (hey, I was tired)....
Q. "How do you know him?"
A. more puzzled look "He's my daddy"
OK, I'm starting to silently cheer for them. Good Answer! Good Answer!
The questions came fast and furious after that...
"When was the last time you saw your mommy?"
"Do you spend much time with your daddy?"
"Where does your mommy live?"
And finally to me:
Q. "Do you have custody of the girls?"
A. "Joint Legal custody" (hey, it was a try...)
Q. "Physical custody?"
A. "No"
Q. "Do you have any permission slip or documentation that
allows you to take the girls out of the country?"
A. "No, but we'd only like to go to Nigeria Falls for a
couple of days"
Q. "Can we contact their mother right now?"
A. "No, she didn't leave contact info"
Q. "Well, I'm sorry, I can't let you into the country. You
can understand that under the circumstances...."
The 7 year old immediately broke into sobs. 10+ hrs of driving
and I didn't have a school hall pass from the NCP. The 9 year
old followed suit. I guess the guy had a heart...
Well, he took my driver's license, registration, social security
number, two credit cards and DEC badge and went to his back room.
Yes, he eventually came back, allowed us across the border and
we had a fantastic vacation, but I can't imagine bumping up against
the authorities if the CP had disapproved and contacted them.
Mine said sure, go, have a blast. Yeah, I admit that going into
Canada is different than going to Disney but call sometime and I'll
tell you the Disney story.
Later,
db
|
| 383.13 | | MROA::DUPUIS | | Mon Feb 17 1997 05:11 | 3 |
| Please share the Disney story.....
|
| 383.14 | | QUOKKA::2975::WAUGAMAN | | Mon Feb 17 1997 07:59 | 21 |
|
> The big catch there is the little stuff - "(I am a CP, though)". For
> an NCP to attempt this plan seems extremely risky IMHO. If stuck in
> the same situation, I'd attack it from a "what's best for the child?"
> stance and list out the factors (still in writing) and ask the CP if
> he/she wanted to accept the risk of the medical situation. Nobody
> wants to be blamed for their own child's suffering.
I was under the impression that this dialogue had already taken place,
and that the ex was just being difficult about when the vacation can
take place. If not, yes, by all means, have the discussion.
As for being "risky" for an NCP, maybe. On the other hand, if you're
in the position where you've only got one week's vacation a year, and
even that is being held over your head, it seems there's not a whole
lot to lose. But I guess dealing through an attorney first is the
wisest approach. Having to go to court to establish the date of that
one week's vacation is absurd, but maybe necessary.
glenn
|
| 383.15 | | QUOKKA::3131::CURRAN | | Mon Feb 17 1997 09:07 | 19 |
| My husband is the ncp of his 6yrold son. Constantly we were having
problems with the cp being very difficult with very reasonable requests
for whatever her reasoning was. It didn't matter. All that mattered was
the child was getting the brunt of her frustrations. So when we went to
court to fight for more visitation and to settle on terms, stipulation
11 states "if there shall be a disagreement in the terms of a
settlement of any sort, the two parties MUST engage in mediation of
which each party will pay 1/2 the cost of the fees." any disagreement.
It didn't matter what type. So the last time we all had a disagreement
on the holiday visitations, she flipped a noodle and my husband refered
her to stipulation 11 and told her he'd make the appointment with a
mediator and the mediator would expect 1/2 payment upon visitation.
She wasn't happy and said she didn't have to abide by that stipulation...
ah, but yes she does, court order! so she has been quite reasonable lately
with her requests, as we are with ours.
So maybe if you guys go to a mediator and discuss this the cp will come
around, in the mean time, document this that you have requested this
already and the cp has been non-compliant.
|