Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
    You and your kids.  
    
    Yes I have seen a few signs of hope that things may be changing a bit
    for the better.  For one, there seems to be a general awakening that
    the father is a valuable assest to children for something other
    than a wallet.  I hope this trend improves.  
    
    fred();

    
    Thanks for sharing that story Steve.  Maybe things are turning around
    for the next generation of restructured families.  You should be 
    proud of yourself for not giving up!  Our beautifull children are 
    worth fighting for!   My experience has shown that female judges
    are more sensitive to fathers and children.
    Maybe they are not afraid of backlash from womens organizations.
    
                                             Bill

    Congrads!!!! All you were asking for was a fair and just divorce. And
    you got it. Most of the time is a gold mine. She gets the gold, you get
    the shaft. Maybe this might be a new message taht is sent out that will
    tell all that children are not chattel, and neither is anything else.
    
    Peace
    

 Congradulations Steve!

 As another Dad who also fought for and got 50/50 Shared Physical custody,
 I'm glad to hear you also achieved this win/win situation for parents and
 children.

 The big question is, In what State did you get this custody ruling?
 Mine was in New Hampshire.

 Neil....
 

    My victory was achieved in Mass.  As a side note, I met with the soon
    to be ex to discuss the logistics of the 50/50 split - she seems
    determined to see that this doesn't work.  She is p*ssed!  She has the
    attitude that I won and she lost.  She feels very strongly that the
    best thing "for the kids" is for them to be in a "stable" home
    situation, even if that only involves on parent (her of course) and
    that if I was thinking of what was best for the kids, I would see this.
    Hopefully, once she gets over this feeling that she lost and I won,
    she'll be willing to show some flexibility and cooperation.
    
    Steve

    
    re .5

    Steve,  
    Now, as much or more than ever, you must DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.
    If she is going to make it tough to work, you must keep your cool
    and document what is happening.  Be prepared to go into court and 
    show that she is the one sabotaging the situation and you are the
    one bending over backwards to make it work.  What is important, to
    the court, is not what she thinks, but what the court has said is
    best for the kids.  If she is not cooperating, even trying to impede
    the process, then she will be the one to pay.

    The key is for  you to proceed, as much as possible, to follow the
    plan.  Never mind that she slams the door in your face every time
    you try to make a move.  If documented correctly every slamming
    of the door will be one more strike against her.  The real failure is 
    if _you_ let her get away with it by stopping to try.

    fred();

    What a great story to finally read.  This now gives me hope in the
    court case that my husband and I are currently pursuing with his
    X-wife in a motion for a custody change or at least have her move back to
    to the area so we can be a part of the childrens daily life.
    - Just a few questions, 
    - How old are the children?
    - Did the court appoint a G.A.L. to reveiw the case? 
    - What is the geographic proximity of you and your X. I am assuming
      close by since the judge ruled on the shared custody.
    - Last but not least, who was your lawyer?  
    - How long did the case take to go through the courts before the
      judgement was made?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Camille
      

    Steve, Thanks for the greatest story to share. I myself had filed joint
    custody with my kids. They have always tell me that I am their greatest
    dad. I am sure that your children will tell you this. It is worth for
    any  father to hang in there tight and stand for their rights.
    
    You made my day,
    
    Dave
    

 Steve,

 If you want to convince your estranged wife that Joint 50/50 custody is
 a win/win solution for your children look in the library for some books
 on Shared Custody. I picked out a few and made copies of some of the
 custody arrangements and pro's/cons and gave them to my ex. Now she may
 think its just BS but ask her to find any current books on custody which
 say that one parent haveing full custody alone is in the best interest of
 your children.

 As a matter of fact the Gaurdian Ad Litem in our custody case stated that
 Joint Custody was the in the best interest of our children and if anyone
 deserved Joint Custody we did.

 A Case Study:

 I am the proud father of two daughters ages 8 & 10 who are and have been
 for the past 4 years spending 1/2 the week with Mom and 1/2 with Dad.
 Also our children had minimal short term problems "mostly just forgetting
 to bring stuff between houses" during the early days of our seperation. Our
 children are very well adjusted healthy children who have been honor roll
 students every semester prior to and after their mom and I seperated in 1991. 

 Our childrens Custody Arrangement:

 With Dad: Saturday 8am thru Wednesday after school and on alternating
           weeks Sunday evening 6pm thru Wednesday after school.

 With Mom: Wednesday after School till Saturday 9am and on alternating weeks
           Wednesday after School thru Sunday evening at 6pm

 This Custody situation is for us a perfect solution for all parties and will
 hopefully be maintained throughout their elementary and High School years.
 Our kids and their friends know when they'll be with each parent and so do
 their teachers. "Although each year we have to remind the teachers to send
 home multiple copies of important notices and schedules" 

 PS: I have a friend who has adopted this custody solution and it is working
 extremely well for his family as well.

    Things to watch out for are or if she quits work. If you have a friend
    around who is of questionalbe charater. And or if she packs up with no
    forwarding address.
    
    Yes, it does work. But, somethings that have happened while working
    with the local fathers group I have found happen.
    
    

    Continued best of luck, Steve (was this the month for Fathers of 
    budding Red Sox fans or something?).
    
    I too got ambushed last month, unexpectedly with justification given
    based largely on some things I'd never heard before, and without any 
    chance given to a resolution of problems.  It was definitely neither 
    something I at all wanted nor felt could be anything but damaging to 
    our three beautiful and well-adjusted young children (10, 8, 5), but 
    nonetheless I was looking at (and certainly hearing about in very 
    hostile terms) a total devastation of my life and my life with my 
    children in particular.  It took my wife all of 3 weeks to file for 
    divorce, initially requesting full custody and support.  By then I 
    had woken up, though, and grounded by some sound advice from 
    family and friends, both figured out what else was going on behind 
    this sudden action, and how best I should pull myself together and 
    move on.  Out of necessity I committed (still have) myself to the 
    fight of my life, if that's what it would take to protect my 
    interests in parenting these children.
    
    Anyway, I also went into my hearing for temporary orders yesterday (in
    NH) not knowing what to expect.  By this time my wife had come around 
    to asking me what _I_ wanted and had even verbally agreed to give me 
    the responsibility of full custodial parent (which I was/am fully 
    willing and able to accept) with liberal visitation to her, but this 
    came in the last days leading into the hearing and I was suspicious 
    that it wouldn't be so final once we met in court.  It wasn't (better 
    this happened now rather than later, though, I suppose).  Nonetheless, 
    after the repeated, excrutiatingly stressful back-and-forth both with 
    and without the lawyers, at the last minute, after a thoughtful appeal 
    from the (female) judge at the start of the hearing to spend just a 
    few more minutes at constructive discussion and cooperation in the best
    interests of the children, we signed off on the temporary agreement on 
    physical custody.  In a shared physical custody arrangement I will 
    remain at the marital home, will maintain the chidren's primary 
    residence, will have custody 4 days/nights per week, Thu AM through 
    Mon AM.  It's secondary for now, but given this division of 
    responsibilities and our individual employment situations, there is 
    no child support stipulation and there may never be one.  Personally, 
    I still have some serious unresolved concerns where I'd prefer to 
    assume full custodial responsibility on the permanent basis, but this 
    agreement just might be it for the longterm.
    
    Hopefully, I'll need this and other notesfiles mostly for support 
    and on parenting but not legal advice.  Hopefully.  I've already 
    started in on "Mom's House, Dad's House" (given our offsetting 
    mostly fulltime work schedules over the years, we each have been 
    caring for the kids alone for significant periods already) and am 
    committed to making this work.  I'm not deluding myself to the 
    legal realities, though, and am heeding the advice of any and all 
    voices of experience...
    
    Glenn
    

    Hang tough, Glenn.  It may seem like being in the middle of a World War I
    bayonete charge right now, but it pays big dividends in the long run.
    
    fred();

    You can let the child support issue slide for several months in a temp
    stipulation. This would be stated as to allow her, the ex, to get
    herself fincially sound. Then go for a reasonable amount as it is asked
    of you. But, if she can prove that she is providing clothing, and
    insurance and some other dho-dhas. It might be best off as little child
    support as possible. Me? I get support, miminal. And I buy the cloths
    and etc. No breaks. Just work. But, its really worth it. Really worth
    allot of peace and mind.
    
    

    From the background in .11:
    
    It looks like I'll be headed back to court (NH) in November for a 
    pretrial conference, with custody the primary issue.  This is the
    next step after the temporary hearing, after my requests for a 
    proposal on a permanent stipulation were ignored.
    
    Anyone been through this (specifically, the pretrial conference)?
    Know what to expect?  I got the general idea from my attorney but
    you don't always get the full story.  I suspect that if my 2BX
    decides to get ugly, such as with any fabrication, she'd have to do 
    it up front at this conference for it to have any credibility later.
    In other words, this is where it all starts.
    
    Also, for whatever reason (we waived it at the temporary, and then
    neither party requested it in the interim, I suppose), there's no 
    guardian ad litem assigned to the case.  Apparently in NH, the GAL 
    is not mandatory in custody cases? 
    
    In the list of items to be covered, one states "submit a proposed 
    order and discuss settlement of the case".  Is this some kind of 
    court-aided mediation?  Doesn't seem like there'd be much possibility
    of a settlement once you've gotten that far and where negotiation had 
    been rejected beforehand, but...
    
    
    Glenn
    
    

    
    re .11

    A pre-trial conference is usually held to see if any unresolved issues
    can be settled among the parties and attorneys before actually going 
    into court.  I've not had much luck with them actually resolving anything.
    Having already failed to resolve anything on the permanent stipulation,
    I wouldn't hold much hope that they will resolve anything in the pre-
    trial conference either.  Beware of pressure by your attorney to cave
    in at this point.

    The guardian ad litem can still be appointed before the trial if there
    is serious issue over custody.  Your not out of the woods on that one
    yet.

    The "proposed order" is that each side presents a proposed order for 
    the judge to sign based on what you would like the final orders to
    look like.  If you can hammer out any differences, then the judge
    will probably sign the final order without further court hearings.
    If there are any major differences left, then there will be a full
    hearing, and the judge can sign one, the other, or a combination
    of the two proposed orders.

    fred();

    	I just went through one not too long ago. Reply .-1 is pretty much
    accurate. I thought I'd just relate my experiences to give you a better
    idea of what to expect.
    	We already had a guardian ad litem appointed to the case (at my
    expense, of course). The issue wasn't custody but my ex wanted to take
    the kids and move away to Illinois. I wanted to keep them here in N.H..
    The guardian had already made a recommendation that they remain here in
    N.H.. So I thought the issue was settled. Think again. There were a few
    other issues around money, alimony being the predominant one. I also
    went into the pretrial conference not knowing what to expect.
    	My lawyer explained beforehand, which turned out to be accurate,
    that first the attorneys, including the GAL, would go into chambers
    with the marital master/judge to discuss the case status and fill out
    some forms while the ex and I waited in the courtroom. They discussed
    the unresolved issues and got a sense for whether a contested hearing
    would be necessary, how complex it would be (how long the trial might
    take), number of witnesses to be called, etc.. Part of the motivation
    for having a pretrial conference in the first place is to force both
    sides to prepare final orders and make them available for everyone to
    see and to actually get a final (contested) hearing scheduled (if you
    need one). You can still resolve things out of court on your own and
    then schedule an uncontested hearing on short notice and with little
    fanfare. Once the attorneys are done and come out of chambers, it *is*
    an opportunity for everyone to sit down together and see if anything
    can be hammered out. Typically, little is hammered out. However, in my
    case, a number of issues were clarified. So I knew what still needed to
    be resolved rather than being in the dark. That was good because we did
    end up resolving everything and getting a signed final agreement and
    uncontested hearing afterall.
    	What happened on my case is there was total confusion when the
    attorneys met with the marital master in chambers at the conference. My
    ex's attorney had not accepted the GAL's recommendation. In fact, he
    had interpreted completely differently and argued that recommending she
    stay here with the kids was ridiculous. So the GAL clarified the
    recommendation, which the master had interpreted correctly too, and
    they argued about that for a while and came out of chambers still
    arguing. The master came to the conclusion that a final hearing would
    be necessary and the likelihood of things being resolved at this point
    by us was bleak.
    	So things were looking very positive at this point! Then I sat down
    with my attorney and the GAL while my ex met with her attorney. Then we
    all got together. While my ex sat there and cried the entire time, the
    rest of us argued about why she should remain in this area and how we
    could make that work. We managed to come up with a list of action items
    to research and resolve, the result of which would show how it all
    would work...precisely. I had most of the action items...just like
    work!
    	After the conference, with my ex finally accepting that she
    probably couldn't run away and escape to Illinois, she started
    listening to my suggestions and proposals. The two of us argued and
    haggled over a number of points...to the point where I felt ready to
    put together an ammended final agreement. Even though we had discussed
    every point in it beforehand, when she received a copy of this from her
    lawyer, she flipped out anyway and said it was all totally
    unacceptable. Things still looked bleak. I went through every point
    with her, and we finally compromised and agreed on everything. It took
    several more iterations before we had an agreement we were both willing
    to sign. I then was able to get an uncontested hearing scheduled in
    less than two weeks, went in, and took care of business. Actually, that
    sounds a lot easier than it was. Believe it or not, my attorney never
    showed up for my final hearing. Not only was I sitting there alone, but
    the court didn't even have all the paperwork to finalize the divorce.
    So I had to scramble, make phone calls, and drag various people into
    the courthouse to take care of everything...but I was determined at
    that point!
    	Anyway, don't expect too much from the pretrial conference...but
    expect consideration aggravation and frustration if there are still
    serious issues to be resolved.

>    Anyway, don't expect too much from the pretrial conference...but
>    expect consideration aggravation and frustration if there are still
>    serious issues to be resolved.
    
    Thanks for the input, guys.  I do expect considerable aggravation
    and frustration over the main issue of custody, so I'm going in 
    expecting that there will have to be a final hearing.  I think I 
    have to look at it that way for the reason Fred alluded to, about
    otherwise being prone to caving in.  If I'm pleasantly surprised,
    great.
    
    The main issue is that I currently have primary custody/primary 
    residence and want to retain it in the event that we sell the house
    and I have to move, which is a likelihood.  For a number of more
    sensitive reasons this is something I don't think I can compromise
    on, and for which I will stick it out.  But we'll see how it goes...
    
    Glenn