Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    National Organization of Men is headquartered in NY. Become a member
    and I betcha you'll get some good legal refferals.
    	As far as I know NY is one of the more reasonable states. I think
    they do from 10-15% of net per kid... so.... you'll probably fair better than
    CO, I think!
                                      Dan D

    
    
    Thanks, Dan. I will look into NOM, but I don't think they are here in
    Colorado. Do you know the New York contact?
    Colorado is requiring about 12% of gross for my daughter to live with
    her mother. If New York is 15% of net, I'd be better off.
    
    Greg Sudkamp
    The slower Greg Brother...
    

    There's a chapter in CO somewhere. I've got the NY number at home and
    will get it to you tommorrow. You may want to post something in
    Mennotes. I'm sure somebody will have it there.
    					Dan

    Dan,
    
    If you can get out of work early enough, Or do a vacation day. You
    should go visit the local court house libaries. Most of them are open
    to the public. Execpt you cannot check the books out. But you can photo
    stat most of the case material for your cause and even find laws that
    are pertinate to your case in both Colorado and New York!:) Hence, ye
    who does his homework usually wins.:)

    
    
    Thanks, RAUH. I will check out the Denver Law Library. I will probably
    have to take a day off to do this as I commute to Colorado Springs to
    work and that takes up a large chunk of my day. I am assuming that the
    library is not open on weekends like the public library; although, I
    will check to be sure.
    My Finacee has a sister in New York who has volunteered to help with
    searching at that end. I also asked for some references to lawyers in
    the area, but I do like the idea of knowing the parts of the law that
    are pertinent.
    
    Greg Sudkamp
    The soon to be poor Greg Brother
    

    Greg,
    
    The New Hampshire superior court at 300 chestnut street is open from
    8am-4/5pm. And that or a college that will allow outside rasputins,
    like myself, are great sources of info. In fact you can sometimes offer
    a student money to do the research for ref material. Gotta keep it on
    the lower QT levels cause some of the official ka-hoo-naa's (lawyers)
    get upset when you have hired away one of their groupies for more
    money.:) But, it helps network, it helps the student, it helps you, and
    maybe one of em might get the idea that some of us do give a rodents
    butt about our kids. You might get one inspired to help us make divorce
    a more fair and just business! As you know now, how it isnt.
    
    But atlast, as one of several attornies employed by me once said,
    "The problem of fathers and their children are a plight of the later
    part of this 20th century, and you should not take it personal."
    
    No, If I pass a bullett between you eyes cause your a bloody bonehead,
    dont take it personal either.:)

    
    George,
      I spoke with my local attorney about gaining custody and was told I
    had a very small chance as the x has had custody for over 4 years now.
    I would prefer to let the black robed guy feel the wrath of S&W than
    the attorney. They are the ones who seem to feel that a father's place
    is at the salt mines.
      I will check with some local students at the University to see if I
    can hire one to do the research. My biggest problem is the x wants to
    move before the next school session starts.
    
    Thanks for the help,
    Greg Sudkamp
    The Relentless Greg Brother

I sometimes am not sure I understand what is being said here.   It sounds
like you are paying 12% of your gross as child support

.2    Colorado is requiring about 12% of gross for my daughter to live with
.2    her mother.

.7                  They are the ones who seem to feel that a father's place
.7    is at the salt mines.

and you think that is awful.   Perhaps I misunderstand what you said, but
that sure sounds like a low number to me.

If you want to get custody, it has always been explained to me that the
best way is for the child to say "I want to live with xyz", and usually
the judge will agree.   On the other hand if a noncustodial parent wants
to change the status quo, the judge in general (in absence of abuse) won't
(and probably shouldn't) change things.

Best of luck and if you really are only paying 12% quit whining.

    In New Hampshire, it 25% for on and goes up from there..... 

    I understand DADS and some other groups have been doing some research
    and have compiled a list ofCS guidlines state by state, anybody know
    if this exists and if so, what's the average nationally?
    			inquiring mind(s) wants to know,
    					Dan

    
    re: .8 :: MCCLURE
    
    
    Gee, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? If you felt I was
    whining about 12% of gross - you must not like hearing people complain
    about unfair conditions. My statement about salt mines refers to the
    fact that most judges seem to feel that the fathers place is to onlybe
    the person who provides monetary support - not nuturing, not guidance,
    not love. Do you feel that a Father is not capable of this? Possibly I
    should have used a piggy bank as the metaphore to make my statement
    clear to you. My chief complaint about the amount of money I send is
    that it really doesn't go to support my daughter, but my x. My
    complaint now is not that I am paying the x, but that she intends on
    removing my daughter from Colorado to New York.
    The custody arrangement that has worked well allowed visitation every
    other weekend, seven weeks in the summer and alternating Holidays. Due
    to the added cost of flying across country, we will only have the
    summer visit and alternating Christmas Holidays. If you want to call my
    complaining about this whining, you're free to do so. Everyone has
    their own opinion.
    
    Greg Sudkamp
    The Flustered Greg Brother
    

    Tough situation. I feel for you. FYI the NOM number is 212-686-MALE.
    I have a hard time with being held accountable for decisions someone
    else makes in regard to out-of-wedlock kids. I had the "adult"
    conversation with my girls mom before we got intimate and she assured
    me there would be no kids! She could have terminated the pregnancy, but
    she didn't. She could have put the child up for adoption, but she
    didn't. She could have accepted the responsibility of raising the child
    on her own (which she did for 5 years until her millionaire boyfreind
    threw her out!) but she didn't. In fact she told me I wasn't good
    enough to be "her kids" dad and she'd "find somebody better". But here I
    am, saddled with indentured servitude for the next 10 years. It just
    burns me up! Don't get me wrong. My daughter can't help it if she's
    been brought into this situation and I hold her harmless. I just think
    in these circumstances my obligation to her mother should be voluntary.
    					Dan D

    Re: -1:
    
    You could have taken the responsibility to provide your own form of
    birth control to prevent a pregnancy.....but, you didn't.

    
    
      I am sorry to hear about your situation Dan. I think that your case
    is worse than mine - I don't know of any Father who has been awarded
    visitation in such a situation. I also understand your frustration at
    being held responsible for a child when the mother had assumed
    responsibility for the conception. I guess in this climate of sock it
    to Dad, your best bet is to always mount protection. I do.
    
    Greg Sudkamp
    The Safe Greg Brother
    

    I did act responsibly. I didn't assume anything. I explained I would
    wear a condem but was told it's ok not to cause "I'll handle that end
    of it". Should men always assume the woman can't be trusted?  That's
    what this is really all about. Doing what this woman did is the most
    selfish, inconsiderate, irresponsible thing I've ever seen! And yes 
    I do protect myself, you're damn right I do. Before this feminazi
    bullcrap you could be certain the woman was to be trusted. Today, 
    I guess you can't.
    					Dan