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You're not going to like this, but... you probably never will be
completely free of the B.S. until the kids are grown or she gets
hit by a truck or something. People have the misconception that
divorce will stop the B.S. in the marriage. All too often, it
just gets worse. She's probably pretty bitter in that she thought
that divorce was going to fix all her problems and it hasn't.
She has this big hate going and is determined to share the misery,
and now she has even bigger tools to carry that out. There's not
a whole lot you can do about it short of breaking off all contact
with the kids and her. This is why a lot of guys will do just that.
However, short of becoming a "deadbeat dad" you are not going to
be able to escape the legal b.s. Again that is, IMHO, why a lot
of men do just that, and they're turning the screws tighter and
tighter on "deadbeat dads".
The time it takes will depend on you. Most "counselors" say to
stay out of new relationship for at least a year to get rid of
the baggage. About the only thing you can do about it is to 1)
accept the fact that the b.s. is probably never going to end, 2)
the b.s. is being generated by her for whatever reason, 3) the
b.s. really has nothing to do with you personally. It's just her
method of spreading the misery.
One thing you might be able to do to lessen the b.s. is to build
a case against her to take into court. That brings us back to
DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT. Document all contacts in a log/journal.
What, when, where, what happened, etc. Especially in cases where she
has interfered with your contact and visitation with the kids. Establish
a pattern of behavior. Support the journal with anything else you can
come up with as in receipts, and witnesses if possible. If you can do that
you may be able to smack her in court hard enough to get her to back
off a bit. My ex and her attorney kept harassing me about "when
are you going to pay the child support" when I'd already paid it. I
filed a paper asking the court to order them to back off. The court
didn't do anything, but her attorney dumped her (the last thing the
attorney wants is an ethics hassle), and she backed off.
Keep trying. If you're documenting things right, each time she
interferes or harasses you, it will not be a loss. It will be just
one more piece of evidence you will need to yank her chain in court.
You may need to get some "grief counseling". You have suffered a
huge loss. The death of a relationship. Yor're going to have to
deal with that. In these cases, I really do think that suffering
a loss through death is easier to cope with. Death is final. There's
nothing more you can do, but in divorce, the b.s. is like the
Pink Bunny on TV.
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Re. 296.0
"The most effective way to cope with change is to help create it"
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back in the race. Only you
can control how you feel about anything. Also only you can change the
way you think about yourself and others.
> My ex still tries to harass me as much as possible & regularly brings
> court actions. She refuses to answer the phone (or immediately hangs
> up if she does) and refuses to cooperate at all about anything.
> (Although SHE was the one who initiated the divorce.) She has
> intimidated & psychologically abused my kids to a terrible extent.
> They woun't/can't call, they won't talk at all about _any_thing -- even
> what they're doing in school. To a direct question they may give an
> answer of a couple of words.
My suggestion is deal with your ex on a purely business level. In this
case your business is raising your children. You have input to this and
can nurture them in your own way. You can't change how she nurtures them
when they are with her even if you wanted to so don't even think of trying.
> They woun't/can't call, they won't talk at all about _any_thing -- even
> what they're doing in school. To a direct question they may give an
> answer of a couple of words.
Maybe your asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking them why they don't
call you or asking them what they did in school, talk with them about something
they are interested in like last nights game or nintendo or something. Be their
friend and talk to them like their friend and you just might have them calling
you all the time.
> It's been 1 1/2 years since my divorce. I'm living alone, although
> near my kids and see my two boys every Wed. night for ~2 hours and
> every other weekend. My daughter (17) has refused to have anything to
> do with me for the last year.
Be there for your kids when they need you and want you and give them some
slack when they don't. Most teens go through a rebellious period where the
parent is the last person they want to do things with or be seen with. This
is normal and you have to accept it and not make it a big issue. Let your
kids know that you are there for them in non intrusive ways. Tell her she
can have her freinds over your place sometimes if she'd like to have a party
or something when you won't be there. Offer to give her and her friends rides
to the Mall, Movies or even concerts if she doesn't drive. If she does drive
let her use your car from time to time. She'll surely turn around if she thinks
your a cool Dad.
> I have deliberately NOT talked down about their mother or told them
> that they couldn't say anything about me, my place & things, what I do,
> what we do, etc. Although she pumps them for information after each
> visit.
Good! you should never say anything bad about their mother no matter what
you think of her. If she pumps them for info. so what, you've got nothing to
hide. Just don't go pumping them for info about her. Kids will tell you freely
if they have a problem with her once they know that you are they're confidant
and won't go off and blast their mother because of something they told you.
> When (and how!) do you start getting out of this hole? When do your
> kids? How do you help them and yourself to shorten the time?
Get involved with something that gives you pleasue! A hobby, a club, or a
single parent group like Parents Without Partners where you can meet new
people and make new friends. Think of yourself as a person who is single
instead of divorced. Do things with your kids! Quit one of your 3 jobs and
live a little. All the money in the world won't change your loneliness. But
having friends to share in some good times will. Your kids will enjoy seeing
you happy again and you'll feel much better being with them if you are not
depressed. Who knows the women might even start to look at you differently
when you appear to be a fun guy to be around and who has lots of interests
and some free time on his hands as well.
Have Fun!!!
Neil....
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| STEVE:
Welcome to the club - a club noone wants to be in. But here we be.
Some real good advice in the previous notes, and I'll just add my
.02:
Your questions around healing really relate to YOU, and only YOU.
Your children will heal in their own time (which will more than
likely take a long, long time; given the poison they are being
fed), your ex in her own time (as she wants), and YOU depending on
how much effort YOU want to put into YOU.
As a previous noter said, you both have suffered a tremendous loss -
a death, and as such, the stages of recovery are exactly the same as
with a physical death. My first advice is to seek out either
individual counseling for a while (if you can financially- and don't
forget to check into state assistance), and a support group; as
also mentioned previously. It is important that you KNOW you are
not alone in this, and that help is there. If you are serious about
healing, there is only one way: "The only way out is through." You
won't regret your decision.
As best you can, take an honest inventory of yourself - what did you
contribute to the death of your marriage. Before you can move on,
you need to honestly and sincerely take inventory of yourself and
your contribution. THIS IS HARD, but oh so freeing, if you can do
it. And, by the way, there is no time limit here. If you can't do
it now, do it later when you can. All things in their time.
In taking inventory, solicit all input - yes, even from the ex -
friends, coworkers, family, etc. Notice I didn't say ACCEPT, I
said SOLICIT. Once you have the input, honestly analyze it; keep
what fits, discard the rest. A support group or therapist is
excellent in helping you though this process.
The beauty of this is that if there is anything you don't like, you
CAN change! And keep in mind, we're not talking about an overnight
process here; it takes time. One of the best things I was ever told
was by a partner who was leaving. She told me I was a very negative
person. That wasn't the real reason for leaving, but that's okay.
I took that info, digested it, analyzed it, and with help from my
support group and therapist accepted it was true. I am happy to
report I am now in the process of reprogramming myself to be an
optimist. It's been over a year now, but I HAVE CHANGED, and this
has had a profound impact on my life. The point is the source of the
input is unimportant, it's what you come to discover about yourself
that counts.
Take inventory of your lifestyle: are you a substance abuser? Is
your ex? Remember that we our brains are chemical compositions, and
that what we ingest affects how we think. Drugs do affect thinking
patterns, as do families of origins. In your inventory, include YOUR
childhood; what models were YOU given? What models was SHE given?
How are you eating? Are you eating? In short, are you taking care
of yourself?
You are wise to understand you are carrying a lot of baggage, and that
you need to unload it. You don't necessarily have to unload it as
I am describing, but you DO have to unload it. Otherwise, as you
correctly deduce, no other meaningful relationship is possible.
Not knowing details, I would say unless you did something to incur
such anger on her part, she has a lot of repressed anger that
manifested itself in your divorce and you are the object of that
projection. It may not have anything to do with you at all, but
you get the storm. Lucky you. ;-) This is why the emphasis on YOU.
And, if you did do something that resulted in the divorce, then that
too is out of your hands, so that again, you are left with YOU.
As for your children's recovery, again, as mentioned in a previous
note, children are incredibly mentally strong - and smart. You
children KNOW. My situation was exactly the same as yours. And
like you, I hung in there, and was there for them. The end result
is that she has been, and is paying the price of dispensing that
poison. I am not. You may not see it now, but stay true to your
course where your children are involved, it will come out in the
end.
How long does the BS last? That's a tough question to answer as each
case is different. I would venture to say there will be some BS
always. However, there is the possibility of a reduction of flow
over time. It is said that around 10 years after a divorce, dueling
parties start to tire. 10 years may sound like a long time, and I
guess it is. I also feel that it is possible to reduce that time.
One of the ways to reduce it is in not responding to button-pushing.
This worked for me, and at first I couldn't believe. Again, I needed
outside help to understand I was having my buttons pushed, and that
I was still under her control by responding. I was so angry at this
revelation that I swore I would work to stop responding. It took a
while, but I finally did it. And guess what, the BS flow started to
reduce. Amazing. Why? Because I wasn't fun to play with anymore.
God, some things are so simple, but we get so emotionally enmeshed
with it.
I've been separated for 12 years, divorced for 10. Over the past 4
years, I finally began taking the advice I've listed above for you.
As I have been concentrating on and healing myself, a very curious
thing has been happening: my children have been healing, and the
uttely hostile relationship with my ex has also been subsiding. So
much so that this past Christmas we actually went in half's on the
children's gifts and she had me over for Christmas Eve. Granted it
was a bit strained, and my children are still in shock. I am a
little myself, as my ex probably is too. Does this mean the BS is
over? No, of course not. But it does mean that **I** have found
peace. It was a miracle. It wasn't over night. I have been busting
my *ss for 4 years, and it's paying off.
Will we ever be buddies? NO. We actually don't really like each
other. However, we also recognize we still have a relationship, and
we have a mutual interest in our children.
The moral is that things can mellow out. Maybe. Maybe not.
Sorry this got a bit longwinded. One last thing. Should you choose
to actively participate in real healing, recognize it is a spiritual
journey. I'm not talking religion, I'm talking spirituality;
initially that private, quiet relationship you have with your inner
self. That is where healing occurs.
God bless, and good luck.
Peace,
Bill
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