Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Not much you can do at the moment execpt document, document, and
    document. And if you can recall some of the past crappie to days and
    months vs hours and mins. thats acceptable.
    
    At the moment, I dont think I would push it, let her feel the freedom,
    she sounds like she is ready to make the break. If you shove it in her
    face she might balk and your outta luck with the execptions of hard
    earned points of money, documenting, and fighting in courts. I think I
    would spend the time to do the three "D's" and not shove the issue.
    She, as you have said, might want out. Three children are tuff to raise
    on your own. And she is def shopping for a new beau. 
    
    Keep records of money spent on medication, clothing, etc. And always
    show up together to pick up the child. Never show up alone. Thus
    preventing any false acusations of what ever. Best is to get your hands
    on a cam-corder if all starts to break down. Esp for documenting the
    child and the dirtyness and the constant colds. (most certainly a new
    wepon for my war chest this year). 
    
    I am sure she doesnt want the extra burden of added expences of another
    mouth. It is a non linear function of what welfare moms recieve when it
    comes to children and monies. I guess if your on the entitlement
    programs, in some states, if you have a child out of wedlock, your not
    entitled to more money for more mouths. This might be crimping her
    style.
    
    Please, readers I am hope I have not made for bad feelings, or have
    hurt anyone personally with my coments and writings. 
    
    Peace
    
    

    
    I agree with George.  The best weapon you have now is to DOCUMENT,
    DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.  Keep a log/journal of _everything_.  Build your
    case with documetation and witnesses.  Don't push her too hard
    right now, but do everything you can to help keep the kid as safe
    and healthy as possible.  
    
    fred();

    IF you find bruse #1 on the child, in any way shape or form that
    clearly spells abuse. Do not walk, but run to the courts and file
    expartay (sp) Emergency motions to put the child in safe custody. If
    the child show abused, run, dont walk to the local intake center of the
    local hospital and document it! Esp having a nurse, doctors report of
    such abuse is only wood for your fire.

    re .3
    
    Not only for the child, but for _your_ portection.  Because if the
    child goes _back_ to her and _she_ reports _you_ did it........
    
    fred();

    Thanks for the advise & keep it coming.  Re: Bruises -- we definately
    know that Davids mom does not physically abuse her kids, she yells
    alot, but no physical abuse.
    
    Just to clarify -- we are looking for custody of my fiance's son, not
    the other child involved.  This mother has had alot of problems in her
    life, stemming way back, and sometimes does not seem that rational. 
    From what my fiance says, she wanted another girl, not a boy, and what
    she got was a boy.  She is saying that she is going away to Kentucky
    for a month (that's why she wants to hand him over) and she can only
    take one of the kids with her on the plane (due to affordability).  The
    father of the other child, takes his daughter every weekend, but is not
    willing to take her for a month (he works, and would have to pay alot
    for daycare -- plus he can't stand the mother).
    
    I am probably going to be TFSO'd in February, so I will be home to take
    care of David (ie. no need for daycare).  Also, re: the welfare. 
    Currently, my fiance is not paying child support --- only because the
    court system has moved soooo slowly on this case and he has not yet
    been ordered to pay -- according to our lawyer, the case should be
    coming up within the next few months.  If the case comes up prior to
    this arrangement, it will be mentioned to the court.  If not, then we
    do not have to notify Welfare.
    
    Thanks, Debby
    

    Is there any court orders that infer custody?
    

    re .5
    
    If he is not currently paying child support, he may want to start 
    paying _something_ even thought there is no order.  If it does come
    down to a custody fight, this can be a _big_ factor against you even
    thought the law say's it shouldn't be connected.
    
    fred();

    
       Your fiance should pay something for child support for the benefit
       of the child. It is hard to raise a child today w/o help from both
       parents.  If you also consider the "deadbeat dad" psychosis that 
       exists in the media and the political process it would be in your 
       favor if you file for custody of the child to say child support is
       being paid w/o a court order. Like everyone else has said document
       everything!!
    
                                            Bill
                               a non-custodial-visitor-to-his-children

    RE: ;The last few.
    
    My fiance does not pay support right now because there is a slight
    possibility that this child is not his.  We are 99% sure it is his, but
    the mother has said that there is a possibility that the father could
    be another man (the father of her daughter).  It is a VERY long story,
    some of which I have posted in this conference.  Basically, we filed
    with the court in Feb of '93, she counter-filed a few months later, and
    now (hopefully sooon) the case will be heard, and the blood tests will
    be done.  
    
    There is another reason for not paying now, -- there would be no record
    of it.  My fiance would have to pay the $$ to welfare, and there has
    been no order to pay, and (see above) he is not even listed as the
    father yet -- the money could end up in a black hole -- both my fiances
    lawyer *and* the welfare dept, have told him not to pay right now
    until he is ordered to pay.  
    
    He does do other things though.  We have our own supply of clothes for
    David (his mother tends to give us clothes that are too small, yet she
    has clothes that do fit), we buy the diapers, food, toys, jackets,
    medicine he needs when he is with us.  We have bought medicine in the
    past for both of her children, with the understanding that we get it
    back during visitation -- this has not happened, so we bought our own
    supply.  
    
    The mother of David receives Welfare based on two children, so she is
    already receiving the "Child support", it is welfare that is not
    receiving it, but unfortunately they are taking their own sweet time to
    get this case into court, so they must not be in any rush to get the
    $$.
    
    Thanks, 
    Debby
    

    re .9
    
>    some of which I have posted in this conference.  Basically, we filed
>    with the court in Feb of '93, she counter-filed a few months later, and
>    now (hopefully sooon) the case will be heard, and the blood tests will
>    be done.  
    
    Check with your lawyer, but the court _may_ order the child support to
    begin from the time the orders were _filed_.  You could be running up
    a big child support bill and not know it. 
    
>    There is another reason for not paying now, -- there would be no record
>    of it.  My fiance would have to pay the $$ to welfare, and there has
>    been no order to pay, and (see above) he is not even listed as the
>    father yet -- the money could end up in a black hole -- both my fiances
>    lawyer *and* the welfare dept, have told him not to pay right now
>    until he is ordered to pay.  
    
    If he paid via check, he would have the canceled checks as proof.  She
    would have to report it to welfare as income and they will adjust her
    payments accordingly.  If she doesn't report it, then she is committing
    welfare fraud.  Again be careful, as you may have to make these
    payments up later.  I'd trust the welfare people about as far as I
    could throw their building.
    
>    The mother of David receives Welfare based on two children, so she is
>    already receiving the "Child support", it is welfare that is not
>    receiving it, but unfortunately they are taking their own sweet time to
>    get this case into court, so they must not be in any rush to get the
>    $$.
    
    Not in the eyes of the "deadbeat-dads" crowd.  Again be prepared to 
    make these payments up, but then again if he gives her anythingand
    the kid turns out not to be his, then he's just out those $$.
    That's probably why they don't want to collect the money just yet,
    but I'll give good odds that they'll want it sooner or later.
    
    fred();
    
    P.S. I'm not really trying to ruin your day.  As Joe Friday said,
    "Just the facts, Mam".

    I will concure with fred. And will also state that any dime, farthing,
    etc you spend. Time, distance, tolls.... etc. Anything you document.
    Keep a running account. For it will only help you in your case. 
    
    I would go thru toll booths and get reciepts everytime I paid a toll
    even though I had a token. Just to say I had it. And I would write down
    miles,gas, oil, time on the road, everything. Before I turned over the
    engine, I had my log filled in. And just after the engine stopped I
    filled in more. It has to be done.
    
    Her stating that it is some other man will alienate your chance to gain
    custody. And it also protects her from loosing her welfare. For
    if she gets custody and recieves child support, it reduces her monthly
    allotment of loot and food and etc she can recieve. 
    
    The best right now, attend church, pray, and work your tush off for
    this child. 
    
    

    
    
    One alternative to having to come up with a big chunk of money later
    is to go ahead and start putting it away in a savings account now.
    You may not think you can afford it now, but it will be better than
    trying to come up with a big chunk all at once.  If it turns out 
    that he doesn't have to pay the support, then you can take a nice
    vacation somewhere.
    
    Also of you are challenged about not paying support, you have the
    defense that you have been putting it away pending the porceedings.
    
    fred();

    Also find out if she is doing other naughty things. Is she leaving the
    children alone for any length of time? Drugs? Etc

    
    If the father was not married to the mother of the child, wouldn't
    he have to file a complaint for paternity to be ruled as the adjucated
    father of the child?  Thereby establishing an order for support.
    
    I find it hard to be believe - but do not dispute - that he may face 
    the possibility of back support when he; 1) Has not yet established 
    paternity.  2) Was never ordered to pay. 
    
    In either case, it doesn't appear that the mother is being difficult in
    allowing liberal visitation.  I wish I could get my 2 sons every
    weekend.  For me that would be like pulling teeth from a shark!
    
    Another firm reitteration of the previous suggestions.  DOCUMENT,
    DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!
    
    /Sam (ncp)