Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    	I have "joint legal custody" my original understanding was that 
    I would have input on how they were to be raised with respect to,
    (where they can or cannot live, where they go to school, what religion
    they will be raised on, etc...)  Well it all sounded good in writing,
    but when the rubber hits the road it is more like sending a 4 yr old
    to a box of 64 crayola crayons and telling them to get you a green
    crayon.

    	The definition is SO vague that it pretty much depends on which
    lawyer/judge/plaintiff is trying to interpret it.  


    	I could also use some insight here.  Is there a more LEGAL
    description anywhere?  I'm sure it will vary from state to state.

		There are two kinds of custody legal and physical. Joint
	leagl custody means that both parents(supposeably) jointly decide
	on important issues with respect to the childs upbringing, medical
	church, school, and other significant decisions. Physical custody
	is who actually physically has the child on a day to day basis. 
		The obvious problem is that if the two parents cannot deal
	with each other effectively about the children the NCP doesn't in
	reality have joint legal custody, and can't take this issue to court
	if necessary. The courts however are a very slow expensive method of
	talking. This failure to communicate about the children always ends
	up hurting the children, directly or indirectly. 
		I would suggest that any NCP have it in their divorce decree
	that at the request of either parent they must see a counselor together
	to attempt to resolve problems, before the issue can be brought before
	the court. This does work! When a trained counselor is present it's
	surprizing how often potentially explosive stuff can be defused, because
	often the issue are really the children manipulating the parents,or
	just stuff divorced kids go through, or simply that both parties are
	forced to think things through more thoroughly and to be "reasonable"
	when a third party is involved.

		I ntoiced a big typo in the reply. It read " can't take
	this issue" and should read "CAN take this issue"

 .1>  	I have "joint legal custody" my original understanding was that 
 .1>  I would have input on how they were to be raised with respect to,
 .1>  (where they can or cannot live, where they go to school, what religion
 .1>  they will be raised on, etc...)  Well it all sounded good in writing,
       
       I also had the same wrong impression.  I thought that the court
       would compel my ex to include me in those decisions.  The court
       didn't, and neither did the ex.

       However, joint legal custody still has value for some people.  It
       allowed me to;

           - Be first in line for Physical Custody if the ex is hit
             by a bus (not driven by me).
           - Get access to all of his medical records
           - Get access to all of his academic records
           - Get medical treatment for him when he was with me
           - Sign permission slips for school and sports activities
           - Get him enrolled in a sex-education course at church

       In general, it allows you to deal with a third party in your 
       child's life without written permission from your ex or trying to 
       bluff way through. 

       Richard

    In Colorado My lawyer told me the same as the previous note. The
    costodial parent(the one who has physical custody) does not have to 
    consult the non custodial parent about anything and in the case of a
    dispute between the non custodial parent and the custodial parent about
    anything, schools churches or whatever the decision is always the
    custodial parents. But is does put the non custodial parent next in 
    line for custody, it allowes the non custodial parent to authorize
    medical treatment when the child is with the non custodial parent and
    it allowes acess to medical and school records. The definition of joint 
    legal custody varies from state to state.          

 It cost me a lot to find out the same thing. I went to court Monday
and got the same response. There was a lot of should ofs and could ofs
from the judge and none of the will and won't type of statement that
follow child support payments. Although to me they should carry the same
weight. 
 Nonpayment is not the same as isolating a parent in the game of divorce.
If two parents were paying equal amounts and had equal say then one parent
pays all and has no say the damage to the children is at least as bad.

Mick

    But, as like in the older days of women and dowerys (sp), the children
    are a part of that. Sounds funny in a day where men and women don't own
    each other in the sence of physical possion. But women automaticly own
    children unless they are ax murders, dope fiends, and you have to have
    the pope or Billy Gram for an attorny. Funny also that children are 
    really not eithers exclusively. They are on loan to us from 'God' till
    they are of age to be with someone else in their lives.  
    
    Arg! I am shure I am going to get my pants shot at on this one. Smile.

 I received the decision from the court on my motion for contempt
yesterday. and it state exactly what I asked for, that I be
notified of any school or social events that my child attends and
any illness or hospitalization.
 Yet the court would not find her in contempt???
I give up!!!

    
    re -1 Paige
    
    Contemp varies drastically depending on the judge.  If you haven't
    documented all this, START.  Keep a log of every instance that this
    happend.  Establish a pattern, then go for contempt again.  I know
    going back and back and back to court is a pain and can be expensive,
    but for contempt sometimes you have to go back more than once.  A
    diary/log of events is admissable evidence in most courts, and at
    this point, now more than ever, the court system is about your only
    (legal) recourse.
    
    fred();