| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 121.1 | some thoughts on help | SMC006::LASLOCKY | | Tue Apr 09 1991 12:47 | 27 |
| I might be off base with this but I think that you have to go beyond
the violation of visitation rights. The last time I went through this
situation I had to have a family services investigation. You have to
show that the kids are better off with you than the other parent. The
court repeatedly said that they were concerned with the welfare of the
children and not that of the parents.
The violation of visitation rights has a place, but I don't think that
will be enough to base a reassignment of custody. The fact that the ex
left the state under false pretenses helps too. If you can show that
you can provide better living accomodations and emotional support and
then use the visitation problems and the move to show a lack of
cooperation and credibility you might have something. If the ex is
causing problems for the kids, Bad mouthing you to the kids,
comprimising the emotional stability of the kids, or anything like
that then you have a much better chance.
Don't be surprised if the court, or the ex, asks for a family services
investigation before a decision is made. This will probably take
another 3 to 6 months. I don't know if they will, just be prepared.
It bears repeating, the court is concerned with the welfare of the
children, not the parents.
Good luck
Bob
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| 121.2 | she cant handle it | LUNER::MACKINNON | | Tue Apr 09 1991 13:05 | 25 |
|
re -1
In our opinion, Erin would be much better off with her father.
The main reason being that her mother is deliberately impeding
her relationship with her Dad. She can not deal with following the
agreement and it is hurting Erin.
This child had not seen her father since the end of January. He
went down to see her last weekend. Yesterday the child caused
such a seen at home about wanting Daddy that her mother was
called home from work.
The problem as I see it is that this woman can not handle the
responsibility of being a custodial parent. The child lives in
the same room as the mother with only a metal safety rail dividing
the beds. At our house she has her own room. She is living in
a constantly changing environment (her family is not stable and
relatives use this house as a temporary home). At our house there
are only both John and myself living there with no changes in
the living arrangements. This woman can not give her child the
stability she needs nor can she allow the child to have a relationship
with her father.
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| 121.3 | just trying to help | SMC006::LASLOCKY | | Tue Apr 09 1991 13:52 | 12 |
| re -1
I don't disagree with you. I was only trying to point out that you
need to focus on what's best for Erin. It is clear that you have a
lot of information on the poor living conditions and unstable
atmosphere that Erin has to live in now. That is the kind information
that you need to get across in court. The issue is not just violation
of visitation rights, the issue is what is the best enviroment for
Erin and the problems caused by the lack of visitation rights.
Bob
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| 121.4 | thanks for the help | LUNER::MACKINNON | | Tue Apr 09 1991 14:17 | 9 |
|
Bob,
Sorry if that sounded like I was on the defense. I did not intend
it to sound that way. However, thanks for pointing out that these
will help to get across to the courts.
Michele
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| 121.5 | One approach ... | PARZVL::GRAY | Follow the hawk, when it circles, ... | Tue Apr 09 1991 15:21 | 34 |
|
.0> what type of things should I be listing?
What I did, the last time I had to go through a "violation of the
agreement" situation, I quoted the paragraph or phrase from the
guardian add litum's recommendation (which was made part of the
final decree). Then under each quote, I listed each violation of
it. I just put down the facts and left out the emotions
(bitterness and anger). I don't think judges like to hear one
party take shots at the other.
Example: Page 3 item 10 states "blah blah"
Date 1, She did x, which caused y
Date 2, She did a, which caused b
To prevent this for recurring I would like .......
Page 6 item 21 states "blah blah"
Date 1, She did c, which caused t
etc. etc. etc.
If she did something that was a violation, but had no significant
effect on my son or me, I didn't list it. This approach limits
you to things you can tie directly or indirectly to a written
agreement, and show damage. It leaves out the general "bad
faith" stuff. I didn't touch the bad faith stuff (there is a ton
of it), because I don't have the political skills it takes to
make them stick as issues.
Hope this helps,
Richard
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| 121.6 | good luck!!! | CSC32::HADDOCK | All Irk and No Pay | Tue Apr 09 1991 16:54 | 30 |
| Michele,
.5 looks pretty good. I'd like to add, though that once initial
custody is awarded. Then it is doubly tough to *change* custody.
Some thoughts:
Violation of visitation alone is likely not enough to change custody.
Being poor and not having a spare bedroom for a small child is also
likely not a crime.
Present the case from the Child's Rights point of view. Violation
of visitation is a violation of the Child's rights as well as th NCP.
Show that the violations and environment are dangerous to the child's
physical and/or mental health (the disturbance when mother had to be
called). Get the day care worker (or whatever) into court as a witness to
this. Put down (if you can) what child did/said when visitation was
denied.
Any physical marks on the child?
Point out the fact that the ex lied to the court when she said that
she was moving to go to school. Courts don't like to be lied to.
Anything that is not in writing is going to be tough to present in
court unless you can get them to admit it.
hope this helps,
fred();
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| 121.7 | change in plans | LUNER::MACKINNON | | Wed Apr 10 1991 10:05 | 42 |
|
Fred
The issue with the bedrooms is a major issue. When they were
in court to allow her to leave, the judge specifically stated
that each parent was to have a separate bedroom for the child.
It was not however put into the legal agreement and consequently
really can not be enforced.
Actually John is not so much concerned that the child share
the same room as her Mom. He is more concerned that the beds
are together. In fact, Erin has often told him that she falls
asleep holding Mommy's hand. That IMO is very bad for the child.
Also, he was basically ordered by the judge to provide his
daughter with her own room when this thing first started.
So why should he be required to maintain a separate bedroom
and her mother not?
Now for the bad news. He met with his lawyers last night, and they
jointly decided to remove the motion for full custody. The reason
being that it could jeapordize the case and the judge may throw
them out of court. So instead they are going to push for changes
in the visitation schedule which will allow him the entire summer,
one weekend a month, and all holidays/school vacations. This seems
like a more realistic option as it seems to take an act of God to
remove a child from it's mother if the case is in Mass.
I think he feels hurt by it knowing he will probably not have
Erin live with him full time unless she decides at an older age
that this is what she wants (which is still contingent upon her
mother agreeing to it). But on the up side, he seems to think it
will stop all the bs that has been going on from the mother, and
that will be what is best for Erin in both the short and long term.
But there will always be that want to have her live with him.
Thanks for caring,
Michele
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| 121.8 | \ | AIMHI::RAUH | Home of The Cruel Spa | Wed Apr 10 1991 11:18 | 13 |
| .7
FIRE THAT LAWYER! Go for custody! That attorney doesn't want to work!
Just wants to brush you off and colect major bucks! What happens if
mommy has a boe over? Will mommy hold Erins hand when she is having sex
with her boe? The child NEEDS a seperate bedroom! I got my daughter on
one of these points. Find a good fathers suport group! They can give
you some good legal advice. And/or help you find a lawyer who is not
going to give you the shaft!
Flame off...
George
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| 121.9 | more more more | LUNER::MACKINNON | | Wed Apr 10 1991 13:05 | 23 |
|
George
Beleive me I think Erin should have a separate bedroom. I think
her living with her mother like this is hurting her. The lawyer
advised not going for full custody because John was two weeks ago
pulled into court on a contempt charge of nonpayment of support
which was dropped because he was paying. So they think that the
judge might think John was just trying to get even with the ex
because they are basing the case on her contempt of the agreement.
So it looks better if he just goes for the little amount this time
and then if this does not work go in when things have settled down
a bit. It will hurt his case if the judge thinks he is being
petty about this. He can not afford to take that chance.
BTW this woman is living in a room (with her child) in her parents
home. So I seriously doubt she will ever have guy over. So that
really is a non issue at this point anyway.
Thanks for your mail message too
Michele
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| 121.10 | One step at a time | BENONI::JIMC | illegitimi non insectus | Wed Apr 10 1991 13:16 | 33 |
| Be aware that as long as the child exists (and God forbid the
alternative) there will be BS if one of the parents wishes to cause
trouble for the other and does not mind using the child to do so.
Trust me, I've been there and it continues. Even with my youngest
daughter living with me there is Bs (her mom does not want to pay child
support, have her visit, or even send the rest of her clothes and
personal belongings to her) which will continue even after they are
adults (she says "if you father gets invited to you (wedding,
graduation, etc) I am not going!") but, hopefully, with less frequency
and reduced effect upon the children.
His lawyer may be right. At this stage of the game, there may not be
enough leverage to move a court to change the custody. If I were a
judge, I would not have ruled in my favor, IF I had tried to get the
custody changed because (even though I knew what she was doing to them)
there was no way I could prove that she was unfit. My best chance
would have been to put the children in the middle and try to get them
to testify against their mother (no way in Hell I was going to subject
them to that unless I was SURE it would work intheir best interests).
Sometimes, you just have to bide your time, take small vicoties and
work toward the long term goal of raising a healthy happy child (if
possible).
I suspect that from what I have heard here, there will be enough
continuing BS that eventually you (he) will have the leverage to
convince the court. Just remember, the judges see lots of cases. Some
are just and some are just BS. Would you really like to be the one
trying to sort it out?
Take care
jimc
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| 121.11 | | AIMHI::RAUH | Home of The Cruel Spa | Wed Apr 10 1991 14:38 | 16 |
| Michele,
Your welcome. Hopefully you will presue the suport group and learn
as much as you can from. Use these folks as a consumer awareness group.
Find out the 'who's who' in the game. Find out what legal rights you
have. Worst thing to have happen is to have a dud for a lawyer. Someone
who isn't going to work for you cause, even though your giving all the
money in the world.
I think it might also be wise to find out who she (ex) is dating.
Maybe you may find out some good things! My ex still to this moment
claims that she is living with her parents. And I have documented that
she is living with her boe, who has ALOT of strange things in his
closet! Just because they say so, doesn't mean its true!
George
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