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Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

Title:Welcome to the Non-Custodial Parents Conference
Notice:Please read 1.* before writing anything
Moderator:MIASYS::HETRICK
Created:Sun Feb 25 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:420
Total number of notes:4370

99.0. "SOUND OFF SUPPORT NOTE" by NRUG::MARTIN (GUN-CONTROL=Holding it with both hands) Wed Oct 31 1990 16:32

    This is the official SOUND OFF SUPPORT NOTE.
    
    Entries here are to support those who need to hear a word or two of
    encouragement.  Notes that address the SOUND OFF entries shall be
    deposited here or deleted if violations of the SOUND OFF note are made.
    
    Please think carefully when addressing a SOUND OFF Noter, use
    you own discretion but please try not to challenge the noter.
    thank you,
                                                      
    The Mods
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
99.1RE: 98.2 (Tony)AIMHI::RAUHHome of The Cruel SpaWed Oct 31 1990 15:376
    Tony,
    
    	Ever listen to C&W, there is a song that goes, "all my ex's live in 
    Texas"?
    
                                                        
99.3RE: 98.2 (Tony)SMC006::LASLOCKYThu Nov 01 1990 09:4229
    Tony,
    
    I suspect that the reason why your wife is not helping your son to cope
    with the situation is that she is using your son and his problems as a
    weapon against you.  
    
    My ex has constantly used my kids to beat me.  When the kids did poorly
    in school she said it was because of what I had done to them.  What I
    had "done" to them was leaving my ex.  When the kids acted up she said
    that my phone calls upset them so she would hang up the phone when ever
    I called and told the kids it was a wrong number.  She also withheld
    the kids and wouldn't let them come on my weekends and generally did
    all she could to ruin my relationship with my kids.  Thank God it
    didn't work for her, I have a very good relationship with my son and,
    although it could be better, a good relationship with my daughter.
    
    Every night at bed time my ex would sit with the kids and either cry 
    and say I should come home, or tell the kids what a jerk I was and 
    they shouldn't want to have anything to do with me.  This went on for
    an hour or more every night for 2 years.  This came out in a Familiy
    services investigation.
    
    I guess the bottom line is that some parents use thier kids to beat on
    the other parent.  The best thing you can do for your son is to love
    him and let him know that you love him and care about him.  The rest,
    well....you can only do what you can do and Don't feel guilty about going
    on with the rest of your life.
    
    Bob
99.2RE: 98.2 (Tony)SQM::MACDONALDThu Nov 01 1990 09:5319
    
    Tony,
    
    That is kind of what my note was about, too.  My ex, for sure,
    somehow manipulated my daughter into calling me about saxophone
    lessons.  Just the fact that it is the kid and not the ex who
    brings up the subject is in my mind abuse and manipulation.  What
    it is really all about is punishing us for all our "misdeeds." 
    It stinks but there's nothing that we can do about it except sound
    off when we can to let off the pressure.
    
    With regard to the kids, however, we all can find solace in knowing
    that they are young, but are not stupid.  They are caught up in it now
    but the day will come when they will realize who was trying to be a
    good parent and who was using them to beat up the other.  The tough
    part is going through the using times.
    
    Steve
    
99.4Colorado---here's your chance--public hearingsCSC32::HADDOCKAll Irk and No PayMon Mar 25 1991 17:29131
    From usenet:
    
    
Article        16658
From: [email protected] (Laszlo Nobi)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Colorado CSC hearing notice
Date: 21 Mar 91 02:50:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
 
I'm posting this in several places (some probably  inappropriate, sorry) but I
want to be sure to get the message out.
 
I want to inform  anyone who is subject to Colorado's  child support laws that
public hearings have been scheduled as a part of a review of the guidelines by
the Colorado Child Support  Commission.  This Commission was created by action
of the Colorado  legislature  and members are appointed by the  Governor.  The
purpose of the hearings is to obtain  public input on whether the  guidelines,
which have been in the state  statutes  since 1986, are still (as if they ever
were..)  appropriate  and  equitable.  Information  gathered in these hearings
will be used in a report to the  Governor and state  legislature  recommending
changes to the guidelines.  I urge you to try to attend and spread the word to
others  who may wish to testify  or just  attend  and  listen.  They will also
accept  written  material  at  the  hearing.  Remember...you  likely  will  be
affected by the legislation!
 
Two hearings are scheduled:
 
             Thornton                          Colorado Springs
       Thornton Civic Center                  Lon Chaney Theater
      9500 Civic Center Drive                   221 East Kiowa
           April 4, 1991                        April 10, 1991
          5:30 - 8:30 p.m.                     5:30 - 8:30 p.m.
 
The  hearings  will  address   issues  that  were   identified   in  the  1990
investigation  by the  Commission.  Some of those are listed below, along with
my own  interpretation  of what they mean based on  information  from the 1990
report  that I received  from  Senator  Bob  Schaffer.  ( I will  offer my OWN
opinions on each of the issues in the post on  alt.child-support  to stimulate
discussion):
 
** Criteria for deviation from guidelines - The current guidelines provide for
   deviation by the court if  implementation  would be inequitable.  There are
   no  criteria  defined as to when or how the court may  deviate  from  those
   guidelines.
 
** Use of net vs gross income - The current guidelines use the gross income of
   the parents to calculate  their  respective  proportions  of child support.
   There is a concern  that this does not give fair  apportionment  of support
   expenses  after tax  considerations.
 
** Linking  the  imputation  of  income  and  child  care - When a  parent  is
   voluntarily unemployed or under-employed, child support is ordered based on
   imputed or  potential  income.  The statute  does not account for the child
   care  expenses of the custodian  incurred to earn the imputed  income.  The
   Commission  will explore  whether child care expenses  should be imputed if
   evidence suggests that it would be necessary to earn the imputed income.
 
** Treatment of  maintenance  - There is a question as to whether  maintenance
   (alimony)  should be considered as a deduction from the payor's  income and
   an addition to the receiver's income BEFORE the child support is calculated
   (current law) or whether child support calculations should come first.
 
** Effects of additional dependents - If a person has a previous child support
   order,  there is a question  about how that affects the order in  question,
   and whether that order should be a deduction from income.
 
** Low  income  obligors  - There is a concern  that  child  support  payments
   ordered for low income  obligors may be too high as a  percentage  of gross
   income or  discretionary  income, and these cases need to be reviewed  with
   guidelines adjusted accordingly.
 
** Revision of guideline tables - The Commission is concerned that the current
   tables used to find the "basic child support obligation" are outdated.  The
   data was taken from the  percentage of income  expended on child rearing in
   the 1972-73 Consumer  Expenditure Survey (intact families), that percentage
   being applied to 1984 income  levels, and adjusting to 1986  dollars.  They
   think that a new investigation may be warranted.
 
** Payment of child care costs - There is an issue  relating to whether or not
   reported child care  expenditures  are actually  incurred by the custodian,
   the  amount  of  which  is   proportioned   between  the   parents  in  the
   calculations.  Also, the current  forms do not take into  account the child
   care expenses that may be incurred by the non-custodial parent.
 
** Adjustment  for split  custody - There is a question as to how to calculate
   child  support  when  there is  split  custody in the case of more than one
   child,  and how to  make  adjustments  in  cases  when  the  children  have
   significant visitation with the other parent.
 
** Entitlement  to  tax exemption - The statute does not address the financial
   impact of the allocation of tax exemptions.
 
** Age of majority - There is  currently a bill in the senate that would lower
   the age of majority from 21 to 18.  According to the  Commission,  Colorado
   is among only 9 states that is still at 21.  The  Commission  has asked the
   senate to delay consideration of the bill until they have time to study the
   effects on child  support.  They are  suggesting  to extend  child  support
   payments until age 21 if the "child" is disabled, has medical  problems, or
   is attending  college, with college expenses paid in proportion to parents'
   incomes.
 
** Accountability  of custodian - There are some who have the opinion that the
   custodial parent has a fiduciary  responsibility (as in a trust) to account
   for where and how child support payments are spent.  One who receives funds
   involuntarily paid by a third party is responsible to account for how those
   funds are used.
 
** Health  insurance - Health  insurance  expenses  are  currently  treated as
   deductions  from gross income of the person  paying  them.  Some argue that
   this should be treated as an adjustment to the child support  order instead
   (as a credit towards support).
 
** Income above guideline levels - There seems to be a concern that those that
   have incomes above the levels of the guidelines, or  10,000/month,  pay too
   small of a percentage  of their  income in child  support  (ONLY $1,000 per
   month for 1 child).  The  Commission  will  investigate  whether  or not to
   extend the tables to higher incomes.
 
Again, I urge you to please try to testify at one of the  hearings.  There are
a lot of inequities  that I have discovered in the current laws, some of which
are  not  covered  above.  If  you  would  like  more  information  about  the
Commissions  report,  recommendations by various groups, current support laws,
or Commission meetings, please call me at (303) 229-3596 or (303) 490-2750.
 
Laszlo Nobi
1717 Serramonte Dr.
Ft. Collins, Colo.
80524
    
99.5CSC32::LECOMPTEMARANATHA!Wed May 22 1991 01:032
    
    Was there ever any information/results from these hearings in Colo.
99.6From my notesCSC32::HADDOCKAll Irk and No PayWed May 22 1991 15:5855
    Sorry about not entering this sooner.  We have been working on getting
    a transcript of the proceedings, but are as yet unsuccessful.
    
    Most of the concerns in the hearing were concernes about:
    1) Accountability of the CP for the child support.  Many were
       concerned about the child support not actually going to 
       support the child(ren).
    
    2) Requirement of the CP and NCP to provide college funding for 
       the children.  Many felt this is discrimination against divorced
       parents.  If you are still married, there is no law/requirement
       to provide *any* funding for your child's eductation.  However,
       the way things are, a child that you haven't been allowed to
       see in several years can attend the college of his/her choice
       and send you the bill.  References were made to an Indiana case
       that is currently in the court system, but I've been unable to
       locate any information on what is happening with it ( Newdecker vs. 
       Newdecker or something like that).
    
    3) Lower the age of majority from 21 to 18.  Colorado is one of only
       about 8 or 9 states that still maintains the age of majority at 21.
    
    4) Restructuring the schedule.  One reference was made to a man whose
       support oblication was *raised* because his ex's income went up and
       the way the schedule is structured.
    
    5) Make Medical insurance a direct credit for child support instead
       of a deduction from the NCP's gross income.
    
    6) Using Net vs. Gross income for the schedule.  Feelings were that
       using Gross income was simply to make it easy on Lawyers and
       Judges.  One mans current wife has a mecidal condition that they
       are having a very difficult time getting help for because child
       support is not deducted when determining need for public assistance,
       and the medical expenses aren't taken into account when determing
       child support.  Also medical expenses are not taken into account
       in cases of split custody where one child requires expensive
       medical treatment.
    
    7) One woman who is the head of one of one of the women's shelters
       surprisingly gave consideral testimony on how the state is 
       burdening NCP's to to point that they give up and not pay *any*
       support rather than trying to maintain a reasonable amount of
       support.
    
        Even though the hearing officers stated several times that the
      hearings were in regards to the determination of child support
      obligations, much time was taken up by witnesses complaining about
      how hard it is to collect thier payments.
    
    	One attorney (Jan Debois (sp)) from the D.A's office was present,
      then only private attorney that bothered to show up was John
      Ciccolella.
    
    fred();