Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    	In some cases in Massachusetts, it is ruled that the addition
    of a new mate to the non_costodial_parent in fact increases that
    parent's total income, and that total income figure is what would
    be considered in raising the support.
    
    	I also find this a horrible unfairness.  I never wanted a divorce
    in the first place, but should I decide to get married again, my
    ex- could theoretically drag me and my new spouse into courst and
    have her support payments increased based on "my" new income.
    
    	In some cases, this has actually prevented second marriages
    from happenning, the potential new spouse preferring to live with
    the non_custodial_parent rather than becoming part of a combined
    income scenario.
    
    	In my case, however, I had a roommate move in to help with rent
    expenses.  The court refused to consider this as grounds to increase
    my ex-'s support.  Interesting.
    
    	Bob McQ
    

     Hmmmm, and how about the custodial parent marrying?? The Mass.
    guidelines call for an adjustment in the amount payed when
    the custodial parent has earned income, does this mean that the
    additional income of the custodial parents new spouse is fair game??
                                                   
    
    George

    absolutely NOT.
    
    if my ex-wife were to re-marry, I would EXPECT to continue paying child
    support payments exactly as before!  
    
    My present wife has one child still receiving support from her father. 
    My marriage to her mother has absolutely no bearing on that.
    
    What goes around, comes around.
    
    tony

    From my experience, primarily through applying for student loans when
    my daughter entered college, there is an attitude afoot that was
    bluntly stated to me as
    
                           Marry me; marry my kids.
    
    While I can see some justification for this when there is only one
    surviving (or responsible) natural parent, I find it totally
    reprehensible when there are three or four natural and step parents in
    the equation.
    
    IMO, anyone who marries someone who is a parent, even if a
    non-custodial parent, MUST realize that there is a possibility that the
    child(ren) might someday become a permanent and physically present part
    of the new family scene.  Especially if the other natural parent dies,
    it's only reasonable for the surviving parent and his/her new spouse to
    assume all physical and financial support.  Presumably under such
    circumstances the step parent would feel some responsibility, moral if
    not legal, to help out with the situation.
    
    BUT, as long as both natural parents are surviving, functioning, and
    earning $$$, I see no reason to factor in the earnings of ANYONE else,
    regardless of their relationship - or absence of relationship - to the
    child.  After all, if the two parents had remained together, their
    combined earnings would be all that was available to provide child
    support.  If their combined earnings meant living in a mobile home and
    eating beans and rice every day, the life style of the kids would have
    to reflect that reality.  Why divorce should change that picture is
    unclear and unsupportable to me.
    
    Karen
    
    PS - On a related note, at the time of the divorce my lawyer suggested
    I insist on adding a clause to the decree that would require my ex to
    sell the house and divide the equity with me should he remarry.  I
    refused, because in my opinion the reason to allow him the use and
    occupancy of the house in the first place was to assure my children had
    a familiar roof over their heads.  Why should their father's remarriage
    change that basic need?

    RE: .3
    
    My contention is NOT that the addition of a step_parent is conditions
    for ending child support.  I would expect that any N_C parent would
    live up to their responsibility to their child.
    
    What I am saying is that the Probate Court system of the Commonwealth
    of Massachusetts has instituted guidelines that are patently unfair
    to the N_C parent.  One such clause is the inclusion of income
    derived from the spouse of the N_C parent into the support equation
    while exempting income from the spouse of the custodial parent. 
    
    The argument I am making is that if my income is to be computed
    on the basis of FAMILY income, so then whould my ex wifes income
    be computed on the basis of FAMILY income.
    
    Equal Rights....what a concept!!!!
    
    G
    
    

    
    I think this is a tempest in a teacup.  Simply refuse to cooperate.
    If I remarry, I will never comply with having my second wife's income
    counted.  I will go to jail first.  End of issue.
    
    Recently a man in jail in NH over a divorce/support issue went on a
    hunger strike.  The judge let him out of jail.  What other choice did
    he have?  With the REAl crime problems they have to deal with, they
    don't need the bad PR that comes with a hassle like this.
    
    Steve
    

Sorry for the late response but I just found this conference.  I am married to
a man with 3 sons from a previous marriage.  We have a daughter of our own, and
one on the way.

In Texas there are "guidelines" for child support.  Something like 18-22% of net
income for 1 child, 22-29% for 2 children, and 28-36% for 3 children.  It is
the net income of the parent, not the family income.

From what I understand, some judges consider net income differently.  Some take
the real net income of the parent.  Other judges take the family income, divide
it in half, and consider half of it to be the net income of the parent (I sure
do hope we get one of THOSE judges if we go back to court!).

Where does the spouse's income fit in?  It can be used to sway the judge toward
the higher part of the scale.  And it IS required when the ex- requests it
(which burns me up that SHE can see my salary if she so desires!), unless you
want to go to jail.  So if my husband's ex- wanted to increase child support
she could get my salary information and try to get the top of the scale (which
he is already paying anyways).  If she were to marry, her spouse's income can
also be used to try to sway the judge toward the lower end of the scale.

Fortunately, new guidelines were passed last year.  The percentages were lowered
to something like 20%, 25%, and 30%.  Also, amount of visitation is considered,
as is travel time, etc.  My husband has the kids 6-8 weeks every summer, every
other weekend or more, and at least 1/2 of all holidays (much more than the
standard visitation in Texas).  He has to drive 150miles (300 round trip) to get
them, and to deliver them.  If we end up back in court, I think all of this can
and will be considered now, whereas it was not before (in fact, I think she 
would be required to help with the transportation).

Before we married, I realized that a good sum of his money would be going toward
his previous family (ex- included because it DOES support her as well!), and was
willing to accept that.  I am also willing to take his children should we have
to, though that is not my desire.  But I am not willing to take her share of
the burden in supporting them.  I spent a good deal of my life in college and
grad. school, and a great sum of money - to be earning the salary I do, and to
be able to provide a life for my children.  She chose other priorities and makes
minimum wage.  I do not believe her children are entitled to a luxurious life-
style because of my income.  They should live within the means of THEIR parents.
I realize the affect this has on my husband, though, wanting all of his kids to
be equal - he feels awkward putting more money away for college for some than
others, etc.... but I guess that's part of broken families...

Kristen

    Does anyone know the Massachusetts Guidelines for child support?
    
    Is it an equation similar to NH?
    
    If this is somewhere else in the notesfile... sorry...
    
    pc

    .6 The man in question was a Dr. Small of Nashua N.H. He was a very
    over weight man. And went on a hunger strike to protest the increase of
    child support due to the fact that his wife and he both made very big
    money and that She is a Doctor with a practice as well as him. The
    formula guide line when you make the bigger money as a doctor can be
    ridiculas when your pumping some $80K or better a year. I know of these
    folks for I read the local papers and know the local folks. 
    
    Another local story in N.H. is that there was a judge who had a
    devorce,  made some decient money. Guess he sold the family mansion, of
    some $1 mill, or such. He walks away with some $300K and she walks off
    with $700K and a large chunck of his income. What kind of money does it
    take to raise a child when your talking this kind of do-ray-me? 
    Anyhow I heard that the judge is now in a smaller practice and retired
    from the bench. I guess this guy got fleeced by the system that he
    supported. Gee, I wounder what was going through his head when the word
    came down upon him? 

    
    
    Re: .9
    
    The question is not how much does it take, but how much do you
    make.  The view of the court is that your children have as
    much right as you do to the lifestyle that you can afford. I
    have no problem with that as long as what I pay DOES improve
    their lifestyle.  I would not be a happy camper if my ex was
    driving around in a Mercedes and my kid couldn't go to summer
    camp for lack of money.
    
    Steve
    

    boy does this hit close to hme. I am new to this file and I am 
    third party also. In a earlier note I entered I mentioned that
    a week after my husband and I got married his ex threw the middle
    son age 12 out of the house and said go live with your father.
    Just like that...he has been with us ever since. <my husband pays
    almost half his pay check for support so in order for us to live
    in something other than a tent I had been working approx. 50
    hrs, a week. A full time and a part time job. we went to a lawyer
    to get support reduced and they told us that there is a formula
    not by thirds he has three but a percentage of thirds cost
    us $2000. to save $30 bucks say was how it was explained to us.
    so for the last 1 1/2 he has been with us and we have been giving
    him aroof over his head a decent onE NEAR HIS  school that he wnats
    to go and he is now doing home work instead of failing his courses.
    My husband still pays the same amount for the three kids as he used
    to only now one is with us. She won't even buy him a pair of pants.
    She humiliated him in fromt of a friend who had to go to get pants
    with his mom and she offered to take them half way there she started
    a fight and took the boys home. no pants and his friend got in trouble.
    And this is the kicker since Rob moved out she has bought a new
    car and vinyled sided her house which is in one of the better sections
    of town. But she can't buy pants. I used to be a very positive
    happy person but now I feel I am turning into her a mean bitter
    selfish vindictive **hole. Everyone says what comes around goes around
    it can't be too soon for me. My only wihs is that she meets my ex
    a former wife beater they deserve each other god forgive me.
    I would wish that on no one. But that is how hopeless and bitter I have
    become. I love the man I married it was a dream come true and my
    child hood sweetheart that my grown daughter from a previous marriage
    she introduced us again. and this bitter hateful person is turning
    my life into a nightmare. What did I ever do to her???I support her
    kids indirectly through my 2 jobs and of course my husband we just
    don't have a life any  more. Of course the boy helps and tries to get
    along he will get on his bike and visit his grandmother her mother
    and do these things on his own and it hurts him that he feels
    as though his mother hates him!!!!so that 8 lives this person
    has or is trying to destroy.  How long can you fight and be strong
    when you have this hammering at you all the time. And that does
    not count being sick then we would live in a tent. What do you do.
    And all I did was be a third party supportive person. And I think
    it is crumbling fast. I am so glad I found this conference maybe
    here there is an answer.  Maybe a hit man:-) got to keep smiling 
    that is all that is left and talking if any one wants to becuase
    boy I need too.HELP!!!!!

    re.11  Hang in there and keep smiling.  I understand what your going
    through.  I have also found a most wonderful person whom I love very
    much.  My ex has also told my son that she hates him and dosn't give
    him proper clothes to wear.  I also think that my ex and my SO's ex
    should deserve each other.  I understand your anger and your
    frustration.  One of the things that got me through the blackest times
    was that I had finally found someone who really loved me, cared about
    me and wanted to be with me.  There would be times when we would look
    at each other and know that eventhough things were falling down around
    us, at least we had each other and nothing my ex could do would change
    that.  From there, day by day, we worked to go on.  We still are
    struggling financially, but we have been able to rise about the feeling
    of hoplessness.  There is an end that will come.  For me it will be
    another 7 years until my youngest is 18.  
    
    I too believe that "what goes around, comes around" and that all pay an 
    equal price....sooner or later.  I know that it is difficult to wait for 
    someone to "get thiers", and sometimes you never see it, but don't lower 
    yourself to thier level.  Most of all Don't loose hope.  I am not a
    pollyanna but nothing is forever.  All things change, just keep smiling
    and trying to keep a positive attitude and hang in there.
    
    Bob

    Thanks, it does sound the same doesn't it.  I quess everyone
    has a horror story to tell. It is just awful when the ex's use
    the kids like that though..they just can't handle it. 
    I have 6 years to wait until his youngest is 18 and it will be
    over for us. This we will see becuase then she will have to sell
    the house that she just vynled sided, she just won't be able to
    afford buying him out. The decree is written so that if she tries
    to charge him for the repairs she can't. so this should be funny
    either she has a lot of money squirreled away or she is stupid
    

    
    "What goes around comes around" and "every dog has his day" are not
    just words.  Expressions like this have been around in one form or
    another for centuries and I expect every culture and language has its
    own version of them.  They are simply observations of life.  They'll
    get what is coming to them you can be sure.  It might not be what any
    of us would have thought was right or just, but they will pay for
    whatever they've done.  I know that like I know the sun will come
    up tomorrow.
    
    Steve
    

    re .11
    
    As I understand it, your husband is paying child support for his son
    even though his son is living with you.  This can happen if the ex
    still has legal custody of the child.  About the only thing you can do 
    is go into court and ask for change-of-custody on his son.  This should 
    be possible if his son has been living with you for over 6 mo. with 
    his mother's concent.  
    
    But as you said, how much this will save in child support as apposed to
    what it will cost in legal expenses may be another story.
    
    fred();

   Re: Note 42.15 by CSC32::HADDOCK "All Irk and No Pay"

   This is NOT advice, only speculation.

   What if he stopped paying support and let her take him to court for
   non-payment?  Then he could show up and explain where the child was
   living.  This would save him the expense of initiating court procedures
   and if she started them, he could finish them.


   							Terza

    re. 16
    
    "Legally" he has to keep paying the support until the court orders
    otherwise, or unless there is some *escape* clause in the court orders.
    Unless he goes for custody and gets a court order preventing her from
    doing it, the first thing the the CP is going to do is come with the
    Sheriff and custody papers and grab the kid (I guarantee it because
    her lawyer is going to advise her to do it).
    
    Even after the court gave me custody of my kids, I had to get a separate
    order to cut off the "child support".
    
    fred();

    
    Re: .16
    
    I agree with Fred.  Even if the court were inclined to agree that
    the support should be lowered, if he stops paying then the ex's
    lawyer can file a contempt charge.  When he gets to court the court
    will be considering the contempt charge per se and will see the issue
    of support and custody as a separate item.  It could end up costing
    him even more because the court could slap him with a fine.
    
    Steve
    

   Re: last 2 replies

   Okay, thanks.  I was just curious.


   				Terza