Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    
    Wow what a decision to make.  Sure glad I do not have to make it.
    
    I think you need to concentrate on what affect this would have
    on your daughter.  Is her father an active part of her life today?
    Is he so willing to accept custody?  Is his wife willing to have
    to alter her life for your child?  Is your daughter willing to
    live and get along with his wife?
    
    You've listed three main reasons why you feel you want to do this.
    They are valid reasons.  But you asked for help and I would like
    to offer some.
    
    Regarding him being so much more patient with her.  Patience 
    does not equate to love.  I grew up in a single parent household
    with 4 kids.  So patience was something we had to learn as
    children in order to survive.  Remember it is the quality not
    the quantity.
    
    I can understand your problems related to single parenting
    as I watched my mom deal with it.  And your husband's situation
    with his wife is "supposedly" and ideal situtaion at least
    according to society.  
    
    I guess the biggest things I would be concerned with is your
    daughters wants and needs if her dad has custody, and how
    your life would be affected without the same level of
    involvement with your daughter that you have now.
    
    I wish you the best!
    Michele

    Hi,
    I'll reply in more detail when I've had a chance to think some more
    and talked to my wife, but for the moment I have one or two comments.
    It's hardly surprising your ex is more patient with your daughter
    if she is living with you. How would he react if she was living
    with him. 
    I think it is an incredible act of selflessness on your part, please
    don't rush into it.
    
    I'll be thinking of you over the weekend,
    Dave

    
    	The most important thing to consider is, of course, the welfare
    of your daughter and what is, over the long term, the best thing
    you can do for her.  At 9 years old, it's a tough age to uproot
    and move, not only out of town, but to a different country!
    
    	You mention that her father is more patient and understanding,
    and is able to give more material things.  As was mentioned before,
    how big a part of her life is your ex?  How often does he visit,
    and spend quality time with her?  Is your daughter's concept of
    "daddy" more relevant to other people's concept of "nice uncle
    so-and-so from East Overshoe"?  If you have been the primary custodian
    for seven very formative years of her life, what is the separation
    going to do to your daughter?
    
    	You also mention that you need a break.  I can understand what
    single parenting is like.  For the years leading up to my separation,
    I was acting as father AND mother to my children, as their mother
    was rarely at home.  It is most surely a time consuming and difficult
    responsibility to bear, and I realize there are times when you don't
    think you can hack it anymore.  Part of your decision will have
    to be your duty to yourself as well as to your daughter.  If you'll
    become more and more miserable from having to be a mother to her
    despite your career and economic needs, then you may both become
    more and more unhappy with each other over the long term.
    
    	You have not mentioned how your ex feels about the situation.
     It's something you'll need to discuss frequently before you come
    to a decision.  Is he aware of your feelings in the matter?  Is
    yours a relationship such that you can freely discuss this with
    him?  I know, some relationships are bitter and hateful between
    the ex-partners and cannot be discussed reasonably, but I hope you're
    in a better situation than that.
    
    	I'm sure there are all sorts of legal ramifications involved.
     Does your ex and his wife have other children?  How long has he
    been in Canada, and how long does he plan to stay?  Your daughter
    has undergone several years of American schools, dealing with American
    background and history.  If she moves to Canada, how disjointed
    will her educational experience be compared with the Canadian children?
    How will the Canadian influence on her education reflect in her
    future life, should she return to live in America?  Will she be
    required to repeat some grades in her transfer back and forth?
    
    	Other economic considerations need be included.  I assume you
    are currently receiving some sort of support payments from your
    ex.  These would probably cease if you surrender custody to him,
    and he may be in such a position that you will be required to pay
    him support instead.  Are you prepared for that possibility?
    
    	This must be an incredibly stressful time for you, and I do
    not envy you your decision.  Being torn by your love for your daughter,
    and the economic and emotional implications of raising her for at
    least nine or ten more years, is devastating.  I wish I could help
    relieve your anguish, and I pray you will do the right thing and
    be happy with your decision, whatever it may be.  Suffice it to
    say, you have friends and confidants here who share your troubles.
    I think I speak for us all when I say, our thoughts are with you.
    
    Bob McQ.
    

    To answer some of the questions:
    
    Yes, my ex is very involved in her life now.  He has her all summer
    and all school vacations and calls her about three times a week
    and sees her whenever he is in town for business.
    
    We have a very open relationship.  He knows I am "maxed" out at
    times emotionally and financially.  I don't think he fully understands
    what it is like having her full-time (even though he has her all
    summer).  It will be different for him than it is for me because
    he is remarried.  I have to hurry home (no stops) every day, take
    time off when she is sick, take her to the orthodontist, dentist,
    ballet, etc.  He is a workaholic and his wife will be doing alot
    of those things.
    
    Jane gets along with his wife well.  She has a son by her first
    marriage who is 18 yrs old and Jane considered him her "brother".
    She complains sometimes that his wife yells at her but then she
    has Daddy wrapped around her finger and anyone else is fair game.
    He will probably get some flack from her but if she is smart she
    won't give him an ultimatum - his daughter is first.
    
    He may be back in the U.S. is a year or two.  No firm commitment.
    That is one of the reasons I am going to the attorney.  Also, the
    support will be an issue.  I will still need something to maintain
    our existing standard of living (mortgage payment).  
    
    She loves Canada (in the summer and on vacations).  
    
    Keep the input coming.  Thank you all, this is great.
    
    
    

    I am a single parent of a 3 year old daughter.  I know where your
    coming from and how hard it is sometimes.  I sometimes think about the
    things I could do if I didn't have to spend all my time with Cori and
    didn't always have to come straight home, but, I also know that without
    her I would be an empty shell with now reason to even want to get out
    of bed in the morning.
    
    The love I feel for this child is worth more to me than all the
    sacrafices I have to make.  I can't always give her the material things
    she wants but she will never lack from love.
    
    It's a tough decision you are going to make.  My advice is keep your
    daughter with you where she belongs and forget the second bathroom. 
    You won't regret it.
    
    Love and prayers,
    
    Tom
    
    P.S.  I try to set aside one day a week to get out of the house, just
    to keep my sanity.
    
    

    Giving custody to the father doesn't have to be the end of the world.
    If you are convinced that the child would be better with her father,
    then that is where she should be.  You're buying into the old "you're
    a bad mother if you give up your child".  It may really be best for
    the both of you if she does go to live with her father. The biggest 
    problem is if you and our ex can cooperate on this.
    
    You might try a 'trial separation'--six months or a year to see how
    things work out.  When my daughter asked if she could come live with 
    me, I told her that she would have to stary at lest for 1 year.  I
    didn't want any back-and-forth playing one parent against the other.
    
    fred();

    Here's a semi-update.  I got a call from her teacher last night
    to ask me if Jane had given me the note she had written.  It is
    nothing new that Jane does not give me school notices or notes,
    her head is in the clouds or maybe she strategically "forgets".
    Anyway, she need extra help with her math and her teacher wants
    me to bring her to school 45 min. earlier two days a week.  She
    also mentioned that Jane did not turn in her science report due
    on Friday nor did she turn it in on Monday.  She said "Jane seems
    to be bothered by something".  I told her about the possible move
    to Canada and we are going to have the school psychologist talk
    to her informally.  One of the reasons I think she should go to
    Canada is that she might do better in school.  She is not a bad
    student (only 4th grade), she gets a mix of A's, B's and C's but
    maybe she need more help than I can give.  I AM A TIRED MOM!!!!
    I feel maxed out. Her dad is remarried and his wife works part-time
    and has the time to help her.  She is not as stressed out at the
    end of the day.  Her dad is a workaholic but is patient with her
    when he is with her.  Oh, I'm so confused.  There are so many pros
    and cons to this.   And Digital is not geared toward single parents.
    I am lucky to have a manager who understands when I need to leave
    early or come in late, but to make any real money in this district,
    sales is the place to be.  But I can't go into sales because I can't
    spend the time at sales training that is required.  What would I
    do with Jane?  The only good offers outside the company are in the
    city (NY) but I can't commute because from where I live it is a
    good 1 1/2 to 2 hrs each way and I can't see leaving her at 6:30
    a.m. and coming home at 8:00 p.m. (if the trains are on time).  But
    moving closer to the city means much higher expenses (housing, etc.)
    
    Sheeeeeesh!  I do go on!  Thanks for listening to my rambling everyone.
             

    
    She is with her father for the entire summer.  When that happens,
    what are you feeling?  Do you go nuts because she is not around?
    Are you releived when she comes back?  
    
    My boyfriend has his daughter the entire week this week.  This is
    only the third time he has had her that long.  It is usually just
    alternating weekends, but even that isn't steady.  I live with this
    man and love his daughter dearly.  However, in all honesty, I can't
    wait for her to go back to her mother.  He is not working this week
    so he can spend as much time as possible with her which is great.
    He is really tired and I havent had a good nights sleep since she
    arrived.  But he still tells me that even though he is exhausted
    and honestly did not think she would require this much work, that
    he would not balk at having full custody.  
    
    She on the other hand seems to be doing well, except for going to
    bed.  But she complains constantly that she wants her mother.
    At times it is incredibly annoying, but I can certainly understand
    her point of view.  She is 3.5 and has not spent any time with
    her dad since January.  She sleeps in the same room as her mother
    (that is another story) and has a really difficult time away from
    her.  Now this all may be due to her age and her mother's mind
    set of being the center of this child's life.  
    
    When your daughter spends her summers with Dad how does she
    react?  Does she have a hard time being away from you?  By the
    end of the summer is she dying to get home?  
    
    Re her school work.  I know you feel maxed out, but her schooling
    is the most important thing (aside from love) that she is going
    to need for her future.  The school systems in Canada are very
    different from the ones in the States.  This will have a signigicant
    impact on her.  You mentioned that her father may be relocating to
    the States for a year or two.  Pulling her in and out of different
    school is surely going to hurt her.  It hurts kids who come from
    very stable two parent households.  Her grades are beginning to suffer
    now.  Don't you think this is going to continue with all of the
    changes she will be forced to make?  
    
    I do not want to suggest to you what you should do as it is a 
    decision only you can make.  But you may want to think about
    putting it off for a couple of years.  At least until she
    reaches junior high age.  Right now she really is too young
    to completely understand the importance of school. She is gaining
    her view on education from each of her parents.  The notion
    of a good education equalling a good future is probably too
    difficult for her to fully understand yet.  Just a few things
    to keep in mind.
    
    Take care
    Michele

    The first summer she went to Canada, I made him bring her home mid-way
    because I was going nuts without her and also felt that since she
    had not been away from me for that long a period before, that she
    needed to come home for a while.  The second summer she went (last
    summer) she went for the entire summer with no break and she did
    well and I did well.  I had a blast with my new found freedom but
    was ready for her in Sept.  We certainly corresponded while she
    was up there.  She sent me pictures and cards and I did the same.
    This summer she will go for the entire summer again.  In fact, her
    dad is taking her to California to see his father (her grandfather)
    in June/July and other side trips are planned.  She also leaving
    on Good Friday for Canada for a week.  I just signed the papers
    this morning from the school psychologist to talk to her about how
    she is feeling about things (school, friends, dad, etc.)
    
    As for your situation with the 3.5, several things come into play
    here.  When you are not used to being around children constantly
    (and this applies to me also when my friends have younger children
    than Jane) it is a real adjustment.  A 3.5 year old is better than
    an infant but not as good as a 5-6 year old.  They are out of the
    terrible two's but not yet "their own" person.  So just having children
    (no matter who's they are) is an adjustment.  Then comes the fact
    that he is trying to make up for lost time and is focusing all of
    his attention on her.  Jealousy is natural but when it comes to
    children we need to understand the amount of attention they require
    - LOTS! and if you don't have them around all the time, you forget.
    This is a period of adjustment for all concerned.  When mine was
    3-4 she wanted mom when she was with dad and vice versa - its just
    a quirk of that age group.  But it is good for both her and him
    that they are establishing this bond now and things will get easier
    with time - believe me, I've been there.
    

    re. Sue
    
    Sue,
    I can't tell you how much I admire your courage in just being
    able to consider your child's best interest before your own 
    feelings as much as I admire a non-custodial parents decision 
    to fight (or not) depending on what they believe is best for
    the child.
    
    Unfortunately all too many divorces turn out to be like (excuse
    the metaphore animal lovers) tying two tomcat's tails together
    and throwing them over a cloths line, whith the children being
    the tie.  In many cases the custodial parents can't get past their 
    own hate in order to consider the CHILD's best interest.  They
    would throw the child into the sewer rather than give their ex
    the satisfaction.  I generally try not to make sweeping generalizations 
    whenever possible, but I'm afraid this one is more true than not.
    
    Good luck in whatever you decide.
    fred();

    You mentioned that she does not want to go because school may be harder
    and she will leave her friends. Have you really asked her what she 
    might like?  Have you made the final decision, or still exploring
    the possibility?
    
    If you are burnt out financially and emotionally, can't her dad
    provide more to you to help with this?  Maybe you just need a 
    vacation alone to get some perspective.  I'm not saying that to
    give up custody is good or bad, just to make sure that it is what
    you want and what your child can be happy with.
    
    I recently saw the movie "Stella" with Bette Midler.  I am a single
    mom of a 2 yr. old girl, never married to her dad, so I can relate
    to the responsibility. See this movie if you can. It's sad and
    funny and thought-provoking...Stella basically "sacrifices" her own
    life to bring up her child.
    
    Best wishes, and write off line if you like.
    
    Beth...custodial parent in the non-custodial notes

    Well, tomorrow Jane is leaving to be with Dad for Easter/School
    Vacation for a week.  He has made an appointment with the school
    in Canada for her to visit next week and meet the principal and
    the teachers and tour the building.  He is taking the week off to
    be with her and help her through the transition.
    
    She has been a real pill the past two weeks.  Her report card last
    week was the pits.  This vacation/break isn't coming too soon. 
    I have lots of plans with my friends and will even enjoy sitting
    on the couch, eating whatever/whenever I want and watching MY TV
    shows or reading in PEACE!
    
    The school psychologist didn't "have time" to see her before vacation
    because they were assigned make-up Iowa's.  I have a very good friend
    who is a psychologist and when Jane comes back we will go to see
    her.  In the meantime, a week of doing whatever I want looks very
    good right now.  I think I'll make an appoint for a massage and
    splurge.  I already have one for my hair and nails.  My friend finally
    got his plane fixed and if the weather permits, we'll look at the
    world from above.  I feel better already just writing about it.
    
    I know Jane will have a great time in Canada (she always does).
    I am not going to make the appointment with the attorney until she
    comes back and I get some feedback on her reaction to the school,
    etc.  Happy Easter everyone!
    

    Susan,
    
    How did it go??
    
    Beth

    Yup, it is time for an update.  The week was WONDERFUL.  I vegged-out
    and rented movies one night and didn't answer to phone - it was
    great.  I got to go out and meet my friends and relax without worrying
    about getting home, etc.  Then Sunday came and I picked her up at
    the airport- that was Earth Day.  I told her about the Earth Day
    activity at the local fairground and she complained all the way
    home that she didn't want to go, she didn't want to do anything.
    Of course when I said she could bring a friend along, the Earth
    Day activity had new meaning.  For the most part, things have gone
    downhill since.  One thing I did while she was away was to talk
    to an old friend of mine (actually my psych teacher in college)
    about her behavior and she suspects learning disabilities.  They
    will manifest themselves at round the middle of 4th grade or beginning
    of the fifth - she is in the middle of the 4th.  Since I have known
    her for quite some time, she also knows of Jane's birth history
    (I was hopsitalized at the end of my 5th month, had to take steroids
    and she was premmie at 8 mos.-long story) and this has an impact
    on learning disabilities.
    
    Anyway, she is now in the process of being tested (we go again today
    at 4PM) and the evaluation will be complete by the beginning of
    next week.  If nothing shows up, I will take her to the pediatrician
    to see if it could be physical.  Does anyone know if a 9yr. old
    could be PMS?  She doesn't have any of the other signs of reaching
    maturity except mood swings.  After that, then I guess it's off
    the the psychologist for counseling.
    
    She has mixed feelings about going to Dad's.  She got to see the
    school and meet the principal and some teachers.  She said they
    don't get homework in Canada!  The school day is longer and they
    go an extra grade (13) in high school.  
    
    There are days when I could pack her up right then an there (like
    yesterday).  After all the testing, I will make an appointment with
    my attorney and draw up a contract.  There is still the possiblity
    that her Dad will not agree to some points (any suggestions here
    are greatly appreciated) at which time I will not send her.  
    
    His lifestyle will not change since he is remarried and his wife
    works part-time.  There will be very little sacrifice on his part.
    I go day-to-day.  I never know what will set her off.  She was to
    spend the night Fri. at her friends house and I got a call from
    the mother that Jane was crying and missed me and wanted to come
    home.  She is always asking to sleep-over or to have someone sleep-over
    and has always gone willingly and never called to say she missed
    me.  I went and got her and brought her home but the  next morning
    you would have thought I committed murder when I told her to clean
    her room.  I can't win. 
    
    So that is where "we" are today.  Quiting DEC, collecting seashells
    in the Bahamas is looking better and better.
    
    Any suggestions, greatly appreciated.  Film at 11.
    

    Here's an update.  Jane has decided to stay in Canada for the school
    year with her dad.  We went 'round and 'round.  It really was a 50/50
    decision.  There is so much good about living in both places.  After a
    good week-end cry I am sort of adjusting.  When it rains, it pours as
    they say.  I broke up with my boyfriend two weeks ago, one of my best
    friends is moving to Atlanta on Wednesday, my other friend moved last
    month to Florida, and the job I had my eye on has not been approved.
    
    So now am I an 'official' member of this conference?  I am planning to
    go up to Canada for her birthday in October, but unless I hit the
    lottery, I won't be visiting much.  Wow, is this strange!  Only my cat
    and me.  I will be getting a part-time job to offset the expenses
    although my ex has agreed to a small portion of the child support to
    maintain the residence for her return.  Everyone keeps telling me that
    this is only for one year and that it will pass quickly.  I must be
    nuts to be doing this!  Is there such a thing as "rent-a-kid"?
    
    Susan
    

    I'm a custodial parent that was sued for custody( thank god I've still
    got her) but I here where you're coming from. My daughter goes to
    Indiana in the summers and Xmas and spring break and as bad as it
    sounds I can really look forward to those breaks. I saw a lawyer once
    to see about cutting down on visitation(yes I was, but nolonger a
    witch) she told me to look at those weekends as time out for myself and
    I think that's what you should do, we have an agreement that if
    Tiffanie ever really wants to stay for the school year at her fathers
    she can, I hope that day never comes, but if it does then I'll deal
    with it. People don't realize that moms can get frazzeled to a point of
    no return but because of societies thinking that if you're a mom and
    don't have your kids you're a monster, we tend to over do and does that
    really help the child? Kids need a break from us to.

    I have talked to a friend whose wife bolted from the state and took
    kids. He is happy here in New England and did not want to follow the
    the kids around the country. I suggested once to him, that being a big
    brother or sister to some of the locals can help you with this whole in
    your life. There are many children who are having the same heart burn
    about a parent leaving as any adult. Perhaps working for the local 
    Boys/Girls club and or being a scout leader can help you with the 
    absence of children. I know when I lived in a neighborhood and there
    were kids around, they seemed to seek me out. Like there was a homing
    device in their heads. I met a couple of kids in a mobile home park
    once that had a acholic set of parrents. I knew that they needed to 
    vent as we do here and I would talk to the go riding bikes and swim
    with the gang at a local quarrie. Nothing strange, just talked to them
    vs at them. They enjoy being talked to like adults vs lectured like
    kids. I still see some of these kids, now men and women with children
    of their own. And one of them use to workout with me. So, its how you
    approach it. You can approach it with the proper attatude or the wrong
    one. The wrong one can get you into the wrong frame of life and that
    isn't good either.

    Here's an update.
    
    Jane will be coming back permanently as of August 3rd.
    
    There was certainly good and bad in this whole year and I truly feel
    that both her dad and I have become better parents for our mutual
    experiences.  He got an idea of what it is like to be a parent on a day
    to day basis (somewhat) and I got to spoil her when she visited.  Role
    reversal.
    
    Some of the good was that I did take a part-time job for six months at
    Lord & Taylor selling and modeling clothes for a decent pay.  I have
    sold the "condo from hell" (as of this Tuesday) and bought a nicer one
    in the same complex.  Jane's room is about the same size but more airy.
    We will have some modern conveniences, like a garage!  I have had my
    freedom for a year (I dated every pond-scum this side of the
    Mississippi).  
    
    Jane adjusted well to school and made lots of friends.  Every time I
    got pictures it looked like they were at the U.N.  Her friends are from
    all over the world, every race and nationality.  Exposure which I could
    not have given her.  
    
    Some of the bad was that her dad did not keep his word in two areas, he
    did not work less (never left the office before 8:00PM) and he did not
    get her the help she needed for her minor learning disabilities.  I
    have already made arrangements to start that up in August.
    
    All in all though it was a positive experience on all sides and I CAN'T
    WAIT TO HAVE HER BACK!!!!!!
    
    I read this file sporatically and am constantly amazed at how people
    will use their children for revenge.  I thank God everyday that I am
    not in that situation.  My heart goes out to those children and the
    parent who is trying to do the right thing by their child.
    
    After Stinky (she hates when I call her that) get home and settled in
    I'll probably be writing and asking for lots of advice.
    
    Susan
    

    Susan,
    
    	Congrads! My heart is out to you! Esp the condo from hell. I have
    the apartment buildings in hell! I have some real fun times with the
    tenants. As in having them trash and run. Hope that they get all the
    things in life that is deserving of them.......All those things....:)

    I really enjoyed reading this conference.  Although my ex are now
    living together, should we not be able to make it, I've thought
    over the same things as you have.  I wrote a note in this conference
    about this very thing before i realized your note was here.
    
    Single parenting is very tough.  I really hope my ex and I can pull
    this together thing off for his, mine and the kids' sakes.  There
    are some difinite advantages. 
    
    Some others have said a prejudiced statement: You must be an "unnatural
    mother" if you'd let him have them.  My mom would probably think
    I was insane as hell.  This statement is so wrong and puts unneccessary
    strain on mothers.              
    
    I know exactly where you're coming from.  My daughter is the same
    age as yours.  Since her dad's been here, and with both our help,
    her grades have leaped tremendousily.  I worked 2 jobs just to keep
    roof, food and clothes.  Forget about time for myself unless you
    count 2 hours, 2x wk at college, trying to get my degree.

    I've been to over 25 elementary schools.  Never failed a single
    grade.  My dad was in the military.  Moving around has some benefits
    too, just as not.

    Here's another update as of this weekend.
    
    Jane was home for the weekend (her Grandmother's surprise 80th birthday
    party) and when her dad brought her he announced that he is being
    transferred back to this area as of August 1.
    
    It really has all worked out so well.  We (all of us) had decided that
    she would come back to NJ months ago.  I was prepared to deal with the
    "I miss my daddy" problems.  Now, he will be back in the immediate area
    and she will have the best of both worlds again.  
    
    Of course, not everything is rosie.... he's looking for a townhouse in
    the same development that I live in..... a little to close for me but,
    if it is to be ....... (I really don't think his wife will move that
    close).
    
    Jane will have both of us and both of us will be able to go to school
    functions and parent/teacher conferences for the first time in four
    years.
    
    So, just when you think things are settled, SURPRISE!
    
    Susan