Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Well, again I can't speak to the second wife scenario, but I can relate
    that my second husband and I have a pre-nuptual agreement that my kids
    are mine and not his and my responsibility and not his.
    
    The first test of this came when the college my daughter attends
    demanded his financial statement along with those of my ex, his new
    wife, and me.  I clearly and politely explained that my current husband
    has no responsibility for putting my children through college and that
    this is spelled out in our pre-nuptual agreement.  Judging from the
    response from the college, I may have been convincing, though it's not
    absolutely clear (in other words, they never responded, "You're right;
    we'll just use your financial information as a basis for any financial
    aid and for tuition assessment.")
    
    We haven't faced a court order in this area, but I truly dread the day
    if we do.  Speaking from the perspective of theory as opposed to
    practice, my position right now is that I'll go to jail first.
    
    Karen

    
    In Massachusetts my husbands lawyer informed us that my salary could
    not be touched my his ex-wife if we were careful.  By that I mean
    if the judge demanded a copy of my paystub to add into the figure,
    I had the option to refuse.  Unfortunately, most people are intimidated
    by judges and the courts and tend to provide the information even
    if they don't want to.
    
    We are very lucky in that we now have custody so that support battle
    is irrelavant (sp?).  
    
    The only thing that the lawyer did say would be counted is that
    all his bills (and mine) would be cut in 1/2 when reported, this
    is done because the courts assume that I am paying 1/2 and that
    relieves him from 1/2 of the financial burden....  And I do think
    that "that" was fair.  But, to count my salary in.... I'd quit work
    before she'd get one cent from me.....
    
    Don't know if our lawyer is 100% accurate because we never had to
    test it.... But, that's what we were told!!!
    
    Kim

    
    Well I for one hope this does not happen.  It is incredibly unfair
    to the second wives.  How can the courts justify this when the other
    party is not responsible for supporting the child. This is absurd!
    
    
    Mi

    In Massachusetts, the second wife's income is INCLUDED in the total
    financial picture for the father (usually the non-custodial parent).
    I know because I am a Second Wife and I was in court when this was
    done in Jan., 1985.  If we do go to court again, I will refuse to
    give my pay information.  However, my husband's financial statement
    will reflect what portion of expenses he is responsible for.  He makes
    almost double what I make, so that all of his listed expenses will be
    for 2/3 of each expense  (i.e.  if electric bill is $150/month - he
    will put down $100/mo. as his expense for the electric bill).  Also,
    we now have a child of this marriage, so there are daycare costs, etc.
    I did hear, however, that these courts are not interested in off-spring
    of "subsequent" marriages, but only those resulting from the first
    marriage.  That is why my husband and I are presently (seriously)
    considering the idea of getting divorced, and just living together
    until his daughter (from previous marriage) no longer requires support.
    By the way, the law in Massachusetts is 18 years, but at the discretion
    of the judge, that can be raised to age 21 (no higher).  We had a judge
    in Worcester Probate Court tell us that my husband would have to
    support his daughter through to age 23 (naturally, this judge did not
    write up an order to that effect because she knew what she was saying
    to us was "not kosher").  Oh, the horror stories I could tell you about
    Worcester Probate Court!
    

    
    
    >  But, to count my salary in.... I'd quit work
    before she'd get one cent from me.....                               
    
    My current wife said the exact same thing.  BTW, I'd like to know
    what my ex's new husband makes.
    
    In all seriousness, I'm sure there is some money-stashing going
    on in regard to showing income.  Hell, if I won the lottery, I'd
    rather have my current wife claim the prize in her name (trusting,
    huh?) than to see my ex and her lawyer coming after me with dollar
    signs in their eyes.  Then I'd make sure the kids went through college
    and I'd be damn happy to pay for it.
    
    -Dick
    

    
    Yeah, I could see it now.  So Joe Blow has his wife's salary included
    with his in determining support.  But of course, the new Mrs. Blow is
    divorced from Joe Schmoe, who married Imelda Marcos' sister, and she
    just goes and gets the extra from him....
    
    and of course, this should be something the state regulates... for a
    fee!!
    
    The second-spouse should have no liability for children she/he did not
    produce.  However, as can be seen, some sanctimonious circle jerk
    political group will see to it that the beaurocracy gets deeper and 
    deeper!
    

    Being a 2nd wife, I was concerned that my income would be
    included (especially since I make more than my husband). We only
    pay $35/wk in child support (a whole lot less than most of you folks)
    but, until recently, haven't been able to have visitation rights
    to his daughter. The ex would find it hard, I think, to convince
    a judge to increase child support when she had been preventing us
    from seeing the daughter.
    
    pat:-)
    
    p.s.- sorry I haven't been responding in here as of late....my heart
    is in it (all you folks are so wonderful!) but I've been **SO BUSY**
    with work. I'll be spilling my guts about our story soon.....
    

    I have not had an increase in child support in about four years
    but would not think of considering his wife's income to go to court.
    I wouldn't take him to court anyway unless he did a total about-face
    regarding Jane.  The support he gives me covers her expenses plus
    he pays half her ballet lessons, all there medical and dental. 
    That is all I ask, the we split the expenses evenly.  Whatever his
    wife makes (and I doubt it is very much) is theres - I have no interest
    in it just as he would have no interest if I were to remarry.  The
    money goes to her needs.
    

       RE: .4

            Don't be in to much of a hurry to get divorced and live
       together. It won't solve the problem in Mass.  My friend was
       living with another woman at the time of the final hearing (he
       had been separated for 2 years).  He earns over 50K, his SO makes
       45K, and his ex makes 35K.  The judge named my friend's SO and
       salary in the final divorce document and in the "rational for
       division" section made numerous references to the SO.  The end
       result was that my friend was cleaned out in assets division and
       child support payments (more than the standard 33% for his 2
       girls) because the judge seemed to think he could live well
       enough on his SO's income and didn't need his own!

            My sense of the system is that it won't change until the
       culture changes, and that won't happen until a few more
       non-custodial step-parents complain to their congressmen about
       the financial definition of an extended family.


       Richard

    
    
    talked with the lawyer over the weekend on this subject.
    In Mass the law is worded so that the spouses income is
    not included in the final word.  However, any joint assets
    (house, car, etc.) are included.  Easy way to get around this
    is to put the joint assets into trusts.  Noone can touch them
    if that is done.  
    
    Mi

    
    If I were to be in this situation and had the court ask for my second
    wife's pay stub, I would politely tell the court where to put that
    request.
    
    If the court tried to get nasty, then I would just invite them to put
    me in jail and take over responsibility for my support payments.  If
    enough of us do that, they will listen.  There are already not enough
    cells for the REAL criminals.
    
    Frankly I just can't see them forcing such an issue when they are
    dealing with a responsible parent with a track record to prove it.
    
    Steve

    I am a second wife and when my husband's ex tried to bring him back to
    court for an increase in child support and alimony (she doesn't
    currently receive) on the grounds that now he is married and my
    full-time pay should be considered, she was told by her lawyer that she
    wouldn't win with that argument.  In MA anyways, 2nd wife and/or
    husband's pay is NOT considered in the equation, as it is not their
    responsibility to pay for someone else's children.
    
    I also know of a friend of mine who's ex-husband tried that same
    argument in court (again, MA) and was told no dice!  He ended up paying
    the 50% of the college expenses that he was trying to get out of
    paying.
    
    Don't know how other states handle it, though......
    
    - Diane
    

    The Texas Legislature, in 1989, overrode the Texas Supreme Court
    Guidelines and modified the Child Support Section of the Texas Code by
    adding 14.056 (c) which states:
    
      (c) Net Resources of New Spouse.  A court may not add any portion of
    the net resources of a new spouse to the net resources of an obligor or
    obligee in order to calculate the amount of child support to be ordered
    on a motion to modify.  Similarly, a court may not subtract the needs
    of a new spouse or of a dependent of a new spouse from the net
    resources of the obligor or obligee.  An increase in the needs,
    standard of living, or lifestyle of the obligee does not constitute
    cause to increase the obligor's child support obligation.
     

    re: -1
    What a relief!  Thanks for the info!
    
    tony
    (who has had visions of being served papers when visiting kids in
    Texas!)
    

    RE: .11
    
    Steve, we're talking Massachusetts here;  they'll do ANYTHING!  The
    more innane, insane, and illogical, the better chance of them doing 
    it.
    
    I wouldn't trust the judicial system of Mass under any circumstances.
    
    - Bill