Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    I myself think they are unfair.  I have a little different situation. 
    A year before my divorce I adopted my ex-wifes son (my mistake).  We
    had a baby right before this and I thought our marriage was fine, how
    wrong I was.  Anyway, I have custody of the baby who just turned 3
    years old.  I have to pay child support to my ex for my son.  I don't
    think it's fair because I too have a child to support who probably
    costs me more because I have to pay for daycare.
    
    The only thing that makes paying it easier is that when my son leaves
    home, he's 11 years old, I will be able to collect child support from
    my ex for my daughter.  By the way, my wages were garnished to pay for
    the support.
    
    
    Tom_who_thinks_our_judicial_system_stinks 

    Hmmm... Once I got over the "sticker shock" (I have 6 children),
    I didn't worry about it anymore.  I know the children are taken care
    of and that's the main thing.  Right now she's not working (much)
    and her husband, from what I understand, makes around minimum wage.
    So I feel like I'm supporting 8, not 6.  That gripes me!  
    
    Well, she's in nursing school and when she graduates, my support
    payment (theoretically) goes down.  Ohio has a pre-defined schedule
    of income==>support payments.  My payments will change when she
    starts work (I hope).
    
    Oh ya.  The reason I haven't complained bitterly about the support
    payment is because it was predetermined.  Neither of us negoiated.
    Both lawyers just cranked through a formula and presto!  The answer
    is "65% of your take home pay!"  Fair?  Can't say it is.  Consistent?
    Yes.
    
    Do other states have a "schedule"?  Is it used?  Does it work? 
    How are support payments determined if a schedule isn't used?

    One thing that definitely needs to be done is some sort of 
    acountability for the payments to make sure that the child
    is the one benefiting from the $$.  My ex sat on the witness
    stand and admitted that her boyfriend was living off of the
    afdc and child support and the court would/could do nothing
    about it.
    
    fred();

    I don't mind paying the child maintenance. I object to the amount
    because my ex received �37,000 in 1988 from the sale of the house.
   
    They all live with my ex-in-laws, receive �300 per month from me
    and whatever the child allowance is over here for 2 children. My
    ex also works.  The house they live in is paid for.
    
    Dave
    PS: I received �15,000 and �5,000 (just over actually) worth of
    domestic bills.

  I believe in supporting my children because they ARE my children.  However,
I feel that my ex should be held accountable for what she does with the 
support.  I pay $133 a week for my children.  I know she buys them clothes
and food, but if they want to go out and have fun she doesn't hardly give
them the money.  My oldest babysit's and uses her monies for snacks, movies,
etc.  My ex does take them to the movies but my daughters say she uses
the money more on herself.

Last year when I picked them up, I asked them if their mother had given them
any money to spend out here and they said no.  Their mother said that if
they were going to be with me, then they could use my money.  (This is
after all of the expenses I paid of bringing them out here and sending them 
back.)

It's just like two summers ago, my ex was so bitter at me because she tried
to deny me visitation and the judge told her that she had better have the
girls on the plane or else, so she did put them on the plane without ANY
clothes or toiletries.  When they got here I went to get their luggage 
and they didn't have any.  Since they were going to be here for 6 weeks
my wife immediately went and spent $230 on clothes, undergarments, 
female toiletries.  We only bought 4 outfits apeice for them.  My wife
said that they were pretty excited because it had been quite sometime
since they had gone clothes shopping.

Oh well, as they say, what goes around comes around...

    my 2 cents (from a read only)
    
    You Men got it bad, and there HAS to be something that can be done
    to change the laws.
    
    If my oldest daughters father was around, I would only ask him for
    what I needed, and what he wanted to give, if he could.
    Too many times I have seen friends of mine suffer because they had
    the child support taken right out of their checks! That is sick.
    
    One guy I used to see was paying 125 bucks a week for one kid. Well
    thats all well and fine, but there is no WAY that kid is running
    up 125/week BILLS!
    
    I think the Fathers should pay for school cloths, some medical bills
    whatever bills the kids run up in the course of their 18 years.
    NOT this "Well, this includes the food and the rent and this and
    that" PLEASE! Both of my kids TOGETHER dont cost me that much.
    
    THEN there is the situation that a friend of mine was in. 3 kids
    no job, no car. She isnt lazy but she was just a homie kind of mom.
    supper was ready when the hubby came home, his clothes were pressed.
    That Kind of mom. She was stuck! THAT is a case where I think the
    dad should have to pay. NOT the mothers who are already situated,
    have jobs and are perfectally capable of paying for their own stuff.
    
    Ya know what I mean?
    
    If ever me and by boyfriend were to split, he wouldnt be payin me
    every week. He sould be paying me to Help out, not to support me.
    
    peace
    Mar

Thanks Mar..  Didn't think to see you here but glad you made it!!!

Kenn

    Just had to see "the other side of the story"
    
    glad I did!
    
    Mar

    Texas courts accept whatever the lawyers agreed on.  as long as it was
    deemed "equitable" and both parties agreed.  they have a statute that
    recommends the following:
    
    they compute your NET pay by taking your GROSS (100% of all wages and
    salary income and other compensation, including tips, etc.), subtracting 
    the amount you pay FICA, and FEDERAL WITHOLDING for a single person
    claiming ONE dependant.  Any union dues, medical insurance costs for
    the children (not for oneself) is then subtracted to obtain a NET
    FIGURE.  
    
    Then, the following scale is figured:
    
    1 child		19% to 23% of NET
    2 children		24% to 28% of NET
    3 children		30% to 34% of NET
    4 children		35% to 39% of NET
    5+ children		Not less than the total amount for 4 children.
    
    I started out with 4 children on support, aged 10, 12, 17, and 18.  So,
    I offered my ex the minimum (35%) of my NET and a very fair property
    settlement.  On the advise of her attourney, she accepted it.  Of
    course, I also pay all insurance costs, and maintain the supported kids
    in my estate (court ordered)... 
    
    I "gave" her my share of our seven bedroom house, and the rental
    property, as well as four automobiles (the ones the kids were using
    were in my name).  She "gave up", in return, any rights or claim she
    may have to any future retirement benefits, as well as the accrued
    value in my IRA and 401K.  It was fair...and I don't object.
    
    In fact, like many others, I feel strongly about doing what is right
    for the kids.  I was required to pay $204.44 per week child support. 
    As soon as I got a raise, I volunteered to raise the child support by
    the same percentage.  Lots of folks said that was very generous...but,
    I think it is what is "right".  
    
    But, what irks me...the ex always has her hand out for MORE!  She makes
    an excellent income...yet complains that she is always needing this or
    that for the kids.  
    
    I have a life too!
    
    tony 

    Who is there to complain to? Is there NO ONE who one can change
    this law?
    
    I was talking to this guy who pays 325$$/week!!! THAT is MORE THAN
    I MAKE WORKING!!!
    
    The woman is perfectly capable of working, AT LEAST part time! the
    kids are 7 and 8, its not like she has to pay for daycare or anything,
    they are in school!
    
    THIS is steep! I knew a guy who used to live out of his car, because
    of his friggin child support, I DONT UNDERSTAND!!!  
    
    Mar

  Mar,

  That's what it's all about!!  We have been trying for fairness in the
courts for many years.  My father fought long and hard in court against
my mother, only to be screwed and tattooed to the wall.  I have been
fighting for equality in system for 9 years.  I have gone down to court
with other friends to help mentally because they knew they would get it
in the "end".  

I have gone to public meetings and asked our wonderful representatives 
were they stand, and they mumble, mumble but nothing comes out.  So many
people are afraid of trying to change the system because of certain political
groups that have power in Congress.  They don't want to do anything about
it until they are in the same situation, and by that time, it's too
late to try and change anything.

The way I feel, and I'm sure it shows in this conference, if a non-custodial
parent follows the law, to the "T", then why do we get raked over the
coals?  Why are there so many laws AGAINST the non-custodial parent?  
Why is it if we step one inch out of line, then we are held in contempt,
but if the custodial parent refuses us visitation or tries to deny us
vacation when the decree states, "6 weeks of un-interrupted visitation
with the minor children", they are not slapped with contempt?

I am after getting the laws changed to HELP all parties concerned.  Sure
my ex is a b!tch and a verbal abuser, but if she was held in contempt
a couple of times, she would probably cool her jets.  She is obviously
using the system and "our" children to her benefit, no matter what the
cost is mentally to me or "our" children.


Kenn

    I have a question for the non-custodial mothers
    
    do YOU have to pay like the men do?
    I dont think I know any mothers who dont have custody, so Im curious
    as to if the ladies have to pay as much as the men.
    
    EVEN if they do, it is still unconceivable to me why.
    I wish there was something that I could do.
    
    Mar_who_doesnt_even_KNOW_why_she_is_so_upset_but_thinks
    everyone_should_be_treated_fairly
    
    *8^} peace

    re. .12 (Crouteau) - "Do you have to pay like the men do?"
    
    Wellllll, yes and no.  I'm a non-custodial mother.  I do pay child
    support.  I've considered entering my "feelings" about that here, but
    after reading the situations some of the men are in, my concerns seem a
    bit petty.  And yet...
    
    My situation is a bit different from that presented in most of the
    replies.  My divorce was granted nine years ago when the court
    situation was a little bit different (at least I never heard of child
    support guidelines until recently).  Add to that the fact that as a
    mother I wasn't seeking custody of my children, a very unusual
    situation at the time, and I think the judge was thrown off balance
    right from the beginning.
    
    As noted in a previous response, my ex and I went in with an agreement
    already worked out that we both felt we could live with.  Our agreement
    doesn't match any of the guidelines previously mentioned, but it seemed
    fair to us at the time.
    
    I really don't want to go public with all the details at this time, but
    let me summarize by saying that our decree specifically stipulates we
    will "share equally" the cost of child-related necessities -
    specifically defined as food, clothing, medical care, and after-school 
    child care (when it was necessary).  Shelter would have been included 
    except that both of us were maintining residences that provided room for 
    the children, so we must have considered that a wash.  If I had 
    subsequently moved into a rented room with no facilities for the kids, 
    I'd guess shelter would have entered into the equation.  You will note 
    that missing from the list are such non-necessities, but important
    considerations, as summer camp, art lessons, dance lessons, trips to the 
    grandparents', hair cuts, college educations, etc. etc. etc.  
    
    Also by our decree we are supposed to provide each other with an "annual 
    accounting" of the money we each have spent for these "necessities," 
    and adjust the support payments accordingly - that means upward _or_
    downward.
    
    There are other considerations that I'm sure the judge took into
    account - I put my ex through college; we used the vested portion of my 
    retirement money from an early job to make a down payment on the house
    my ex and the kids share with my ex's new wife; I was living within
    four blocks of their home, and the kids were with me three nights a
    week from after school until bed time plus a full day every weekend; I
    took nothing (furniture, household goods, etc.) from the family home at
    the time of the divorce, except for two chests that clearly belonged to 
    me; I received no portion of his retirement accounts; he retained the 
    family car free of any encumberances from me; we each claim one child 
    as a dependent for tax purposes.
    
    It hasn't worked out quite as neatly in real life as it does on paper,
    but that's what we've tried to live by for nine years now.  I still
    think it sounds more equitable than many of the situations I've seen
    described here.  I do live in fear of his dragging me back into court
    to retroactively fit one of the support guidelines onto our situation.
    
    Karen

    re .12 IMHO, there is nothing petty about these situations.
    
    re. 0 
    No suggestions Kenn, but I know what you are going through. Good
    luck.  The record "read" very nicely, thanks.
    
    Dave

    re: .13 (Karen)
    thanks for sharing your perspective and experience.  we men sometimes
    get very vocal/angry with the circumstances we find ourselves in.  
    
    i suspect we even (sometimes) try to "out-do" the other guy (who has
    the worst experience...who has to pay the most...stuff like that).  we
    also forget that there are a few WOMEN who are playing the same role we
    are.
    
    we also forget that much of the "grief" we pay is the direct result of
    some jerk out there NOT living up to his responsibility to his kids,
    and jumping ship; his ex has no recourse but the court; legislation
    happens as a result (knee jerk mode); and we ALL suffer consequences
    brought to us because of this one jerk.
    
    my biggest problem with the divorce was resolving the guilt i felt
    because statistics "prove" the woman's/children's standard of living
    declines and the man's increases after a divorce...and i felt horrible
    that that might happen to my own kids.  that'd be a terrible price to
    pay for my happiness.  
    
    but, having resolved that, and now seeing that it isn't happening,
    makes me glad i did what i did.
    
    i don't for a single moment regret or resent paying child support.  i
    DO resent the ex's constant "gimme" attitude...
    
    Karen...don't stop contributing.  thanks for participating.
    
    tony

    
    Thanks for sharin' that Karen, see, Ya only hear about the guys
    side of the story, thats why I asked. Hope I didnt stir anything
    up, Im just an over curious kinda person.
    
    I wonder why, just because people get divorced, the non custodial
    parent gets screwed so bad. I mean... SOMEONE has to have the kids,
    so no matter which way the table turns, someone will end up kidless.
    Seems like enough punishment to me, without the unfairness of the
    child support payments that I have seen that people have to pay.
    
    eh
    Mar.

   I pay my ex a lot of money every week.  I'm deep into debt and I
   occasionally deliver pizzas to make ends meet.  I also split all medical
   expenses as well as other activities (skiing, extracurricular activities, 
   etc.)  I make payments every week and sometimes I have been late by one
   week.  I'm in a tough situation financially, but I also feel my kids
   should have my financial support.  I think we're in a very inequitable
   situation right now, because I think my ex makes more money than I do. 
   He lives ten times better than I do and our divorce was supposed to be
   equitable!  Some of this was bad luck, some of it was that I had never
   managed my money and learned a lot of things the hard way and some of it
   is that he took advantage of my naivete when we got divorced.

   On the other hand, when my kids spend a week or more with me, I don't
   have to pay him during the time I have them.

   My ex has never tried to deny me visitation or ask me for more money, so
   I guess I'm luckier than most.

   And no, my wages have never been garnished, thank goodness.


   							Terza

  Terza,

   Glad to see your getting if off your chest.  This file has become an
emotional outlet for me in various ways and I'm sure everyone else agrees.

Sorry I haven't been very active today but it's been hell here today plus
I'm trying to get things wrapped up before I take off next week for Chicago.
I'll update where I left off tonight, hopefully.

One of the REAL burdens of being in our position means that we have to
financially suffer.  I have almost had to file bankruptcy twice, but I'm
not going to give my ex the satisfaction.  To give you an example, if I
want to see my daughters for my six weeks of uninterrupt vacation, I have
to pay for all traveling expenses for them here and back.  Now while the
girls are here, my ex is suppose to return 50% of child support that is
garnished out of my check.  NEVER HAS HAPPENED!!  I have been out here
for eight years and she has never returned any portion of the support.

It states in the divorce decree that I am allowed 50% abatement while the
girls are with me.  The other 50% stays with her because "she still has to
maintain a domicile for the children to return to".  

I have tried to get her held in contempt of court about this but the damn
lawyers say it's not worth it!   Maybe not to them, but it sure is to me!

Well I'm also responsible for ALL extra-ordinary medical and dental bills.
My daughters needed braces so the ex (without any consultation with me)
ran up almost $6000 worth of dental bills for both the girls.  She then
had her lawyer send me a nasty gram saying that they wanted it paid plus
her attorney fees, plus they wanted to seek an increase in support.

I told them to go to hell because I did not authorize any of the bills
and by Illinois law, if I don't authorize it then I don't have to pay.
I took HER to court for the second time and the judge ruled in my favor
on the dental bill so she got stuck with it.  She was P_SSED bigtime.

However, I lost the abatement, both tax exemptions, and she got her
increase in support.  So now, when the girls are out here, I still have
to pay full support to her.  What's wrong with this picture??

I know the feeling of being in financial debt and I hope to someday be
out of it, but as long as I can still provide my children, I'll stay in debt.  
It makes life real rough for my wife and she has learned to accept it,
but she has stated that she would do the same if she were in my shoes.

My wife's parents are very well off and it hurts them to see her like 
this but they know the situation very well and have been very supportive
with their love for me and my daughters.  The ex is a lonely person
so I feel pretty happy in that respect that I have alot of friends
and relatives who care....

Best of luck and keep your chin up.  It's tough but if I can do it,
so can you!!!!

    
    1) I get my children for 8 weeks during the summer, sometimes 
       longer if she is in the mood, which is quite often since while
       the children are with me, I STILL have to pay "child" support.
    
    2) When the judge figured the amount of child support I have to
       pay, they added in may CURRENT wife's income.  Now that's
       *really* fair to second wives.
    
    fred();

    
    I also got caught with the dental bill thing.  The divorce decree
    states that I am responsible for the bills, but that I have to be
    consulted first as to need and cost.  The discussion I got was about
    six months ago, when my ex said something to the effect "The kids
    might need some braces later on, you know."
    
    Now my kids are covered in part by my current spouse's dental plan,
    and I was under the impression that it covered a lot more than it
    actually did.  Unfortunately, I did not have them double-covered
    under the Digital plan.
    
    The first I knew of any actual work done on my oldest was when I
    got a bill from the dentist reading: Initial fee- placement of
    retainers- $500 payable upon receipt.  I had a go-round with the
    receptionist that they had no right to send me any bills for work
    done simply because my ex told them to send the bills to a third
    party.  I was furious (mostly with my ex) and when I apologized
    for their being put in a situation that was really between my ex
    and I, they softened somewhat.  We even discussed having the retainers
    removed and all work halted, simply because I couldn't afford it.
    
    I called my ex and told her what I had discussed with the dentist,
    and also told her they were to perform no other work until 1) I
    could line up some more insurance (Digital open enrolement period)
    and 2) the dentist could agree to some weekly payment, based on
    what I could afford.  I actually got my ex to agree to a whopping
    $4.00 a week reduction in support, and believe me, I was shocked
    because that woman would chase a rat through hell for a nickel,
    especially if it were *my* nickel.
    
    So now every Monday $10.00 goes to the dentist.  If there are five
    Mondays in a month they get $50.00 that month instead of $40.00.
    I don't begrudge my kids having necessary work done.  The additional
    insurance is in place. Life goes on. 
    
    By the way, the dentist's receptionist has called me twice at work
    because they didn't see my check by the end of the week.  They always
    get mailed, I assured her. (I hate to be made to feel like a deadbeat.)
    One more call and I'll have to remind her that there are laws about
    calling people at their place of employment for collection purposes.
    
    By the way, my present wife has needed some bridge allignment work
    since she was a teenager but it was never affordable---You guessed
    it---she lived with her divorced father.  With insurance only covering
    so much, it looks like her own teeth will have to be put on hold
    until my kids' teeth are done.  God, the things she has to put up
    with being married to me...but she's so loving and understanding.
    
    Sorry 'bout the longwindedness,
    
    -Dick
    

    If they can add in your current spouses income with regard to child
    support, what if you are living together?  I mean if you are living
    with someone and have a joint checking account, isn't that considered a
    common law marriage?  
    
    I'm interested because my ex is living with the man she had an affair
    with (a whole other story) and has been since our divorce 2 years ago. 
    
    
    If a common law marriage is supported by the courts then when we
    refigure the child support, I will ask the court to add his income into
    hers when figuring the amount of child support I have to pay her.  She
    is currently living in Syracuse, New York.
    
    Just so you don't think I'm a jerk and just trying to get out of paying
    child support here's a little of my story.
    
    We were divorced because my ex was having an affair.  We have 2
    children, son age 10 by her previous marriage (I adopted him) and
    daughter age 3.  My ex has physical custody of our son and I have
    physical custody of our daughter.  
    
    I don't think it's fair that I pay any child support since I too have a
    child to support and have to pay for childcare.  I even have to pay to
    send my daughter to New York to visit her mother.  I hate sending her
    any money and have grown appart from my son because of this.  We have
    to sacrafice alot so that they can live well.  I only have one income,
    I'm not married, and have to support 2 households.  It sucks!!!
    
    
    Tom

    
    
    	 For the past 6 months my ex has been pulling me into court
    for more support. She also tried to have my presant wifes salary
    included when figuring the support. The judge told her out right
    the my wife had nothing to do with bring the children into this
    world and she had no legal right to ask her in effect to pay
    childsupport. As far as the increase that too was denied, never
    thought I would be glad we had a wage freeze this past summer. He
    ruled that I was on the loosing side of inflation and that at this
    time he could not grant an increase. She filed a motion to reconsider
    after that and that was denied.
    
    JK
    
    P.S. Once in awhile the coin flips, even if it's not to often.
    

  He would definitely get my vote because he looked at the situation of
  both parties, and made a sound judgement.

  Congrats!!!!

    .21
    
    Tom,
    
    My sister in laws child support award "was" reduced slightly in
    Massachusetts because she has a live in....  Don't know if it
    happens in all cases but, in this case it did.
    
    Kim

    .22
    
    
    Yeah!!!!!  Good new is so great to read.... Congrats!!!
    
    

    .22  congrats! *8^)
    heh heh  (kinda makes ya wanna stick out your tongue and razberrie
   her dont it?) 
    
    
    re: common law
    
    The person who asked about common law marriages, Me and my ole man
    have been together for 3 years, Its not a common law marriage until
    the 7th year, and that has nothing to do with the children, say
    my kids werent his, the kids' father would STILL have to pay  support
    until my husband adopted them.
    
    get it?
    
    Mar

    re: common law marriages
    
    in Texas, you don't even have to be LIVING together to be legally
    considered common law married.  all you have to do is "represent
    yourself as married" and you ARE!
    
    so, guys down there who sign the motel registry as "mr. and mrs." are
    really sticking it out!
    
    tony

    
    
    "so, guys down there who sign the motel registry as "mr. and mrs." are
    really sticking it out!"
    
    	... no pun intended, right?!?!
    

    
    Stay out of Worcester County!
    
    My Ex wife is one of the....!!
    
    Every other year she brings me back to court for increased support.
    
    She drives a new Trans Am.
    
    Remarried and both make more than me.
    
    She just built a 600k house.. all custom with three chandliers in the
    Formal Dining room and so on.. I have a complete discription of the
    house and options which I presented to the judge.
    
    Her Grandmother, Aunt and Mother are all healthy wealthy.
    
    So she took off her Diamonds and mink, left the 3 poodles and Macaw at
    home and wore rags to court.. 
    
    She actually kicked her husband out of the new house and filed for
    divorce.. 
    
    Well she got what she wanted, hubby and her made up and the kids can
    even get lunch money from her..  she needed a new Cam Recorder!
    
    This is just the tip of the iceburg.. 
    
    Cal.
    

    
    	OK, after reading this entry I'm in a panic mode. Here's the
    reason. I'm going to Court on April 6th for my divorce. My ex makes
    27k a year and I make 45k. I have two daughters age 14 and 17.
    Based on the new support laws what can I be expected to pay weekly.
    I just read an article in the Sunday Globe, they inserted the new
    guidelines and included the formula about subtracted 15k right off the
    custodial parents income, then adding both gross incomes come up 
    with a number from which the payments are calculated.
    
    	This is an amicable divorce. My ex has agreed to an amount and has
    signed the divorce papers. Question, Does the Judge rule by the
    guidlelines at all times even if the ex has already agreed to a
    specified amount. Currently she is left with 200.00 per week after
    expenses and I'm left with 68.00. After reading all these articles I
    feel like I could even be in a deeper hole.
    
    thanks for any input! 

    
    	The way it works is, your wife is allowed to make up to $15K
    per year without even having that considered by the court.  With
    two children, your wife is entitled to up to 30% of your Gross for
    child support, which at your salary range works out to something
    a little less than half your takehome pay.  In addition, the court
    may order you to maintain any health and dental insurance you may
    have in force, or may require that you get some if none is in force.
    On top of that, you may be required to make up the difference for
    anything that insurance doesn't cover, although some judges will
    allow you and your wife to split these costs down the middle.
    
    	Since your wife makes more than the allowed $15K annually,
    you may actually get a break on your support payments, but don't
    count on it.
    
    	The judge is basically there to read over your agreement, and
    decide whether or not it is fair and reasonable to the custodial
    parent, usually the woman.  If he feels your agreement is in fact
    fair and reasonable, you're all set.  If not, he can go to the
    guidelines and enforce them instead.
    
    	These are all based on my own divorce and what I learned, and
    should not be accepted as the letter of the law.  Basically, though,
    it is my firm belief that I could have come out better without an
    attorney.  In many cases the attorneys for the "battling" couple
    just shake hands and go with the guidelines, and railroad the clients
    into accepting it as quickly and painlessly as possible, so they
    can get the most bucks for the least work.
    
    	I wish you a lot of luck!
    
    McQ
    

    
    
    Re: .31
    
    >   The judge is basically there to read over your agreement,
    >	and decide whether or not it is fair and reasonable to the
    >   custodial parent, usually the woman.  If he feels your agreement
    >   is in fact fair and reasonable, you're all set.  If not, he can
    >   go to the guidelines and enforce them instead.
    
    This is basically how it was explained to me as well, but I developed a
    bit some insight of my own.  The court's PRIMARY interest is NOT
    fairness.  I am not saying they are not interested in fairness, but it
    is not the top priority.  The top priority, imo, is to find the
    resolution with the smallest possible chance of one party or the other
    reneging on the deal.  In other words the judge wants to ensure that the
    state does not end up holding the financial bag and that s/he isn't
    likely to see your faces in front of the court again.
    
    If this perception is true, and I believe it is, then it can work
    toward an equitable agreement for all.   I pay $237 a week to my ex. 
    New Hampshire has "the formula" also.  It works out to about a third
    of my net.  I also must keep medical insurance in force, pick up any
    non-covered medical expenses, and 75% of non-covered orthodontic,
    and on and on and on.  I have been separated since September of 1985
    and actually divorced since January 29th of this year.  Before the
    divorce I VOLUNTARILY paid an amount in excess of what a court would
    have forced me to.  I made it perfectly clear to my attorney who made
    it clear to my ex's attorney that I would continue to pay any amount
    mandated by state law etc. i.e. "the formula" and any other amounts
    that we mutually negotiate.  In other words if it's fair, or close to
    that, I'll do it without a squabble, but if you try to screw me I will
    fight to the last breath INCLUDING being willing to go to jail and let
    the state worry about it all.  Things got real easy to work out after
    that was made clear.  It's too bad that sometimes you have to be this
    way, but the State does NOT want to chase you to the other coast or put
    you up in "state accomodations" especially if you have a track record
    of being reasonable and making good on your promises.
    
    Steve
    

    HI, My name is Karl Wittmann, living in Greenville S.C.. I have been
    separated for 10 months, have 2 children Adam 5 and Karli 7, I am the
    Non Cust Parent. The amount of child support I pay is $965 per month,
    which just floors me. I Also have the kids 2 times per week and every
    other weekend. I love these kids dearly, however, the amount of child
    support in addition to maintaining the marital debts is rather insane.
    I also maintain the childrens dental and medical insurance, the life
    insurance and pay the lions share of medical and dental (beyound 
    what the insurance covers). 
    
    The financial burdens are just that,,burdens which get worse each
    month. My wife started seeing another man which was the straw which
    broke the camels back. My main complaint is the lenght of time it takes
    to get devorced in S.C. I chose not to go the adultry rout due to 
    what I consider mental instability on my wifes part. (Probably screwed
    up there).
    
    She lives in "our" old home and has not changed her life style (other
    than going back to work as a R.N.) and has not accepted responsibility
    for any of our joint outstanding debts. Since most all debts are in
    my name, and don't want to loose my credit rating I have been trying
    to pay the Child support (priority 1) along with all the rest.
    
    I don't feel the system is the least bit fair. A marrage is a 50/50 set
    up, the children are not 70% mine and 30% hers. Breaking the financials
    down in relationship to income is absurd. 
    
    Here we have 2 professionals. One who has been working for 11 years to
    get to this income level, the other has not, however had the opertunity
    to be employed during that same 11 year time frame and build to a
    very good financial point. I get taken to the cleaners because I
    dedicated myself to building a good paying career. How about that?
    
    P.S. Does anyone know the price of stock in the KY Jelly Company? 
    
    
    I  
    

  Karl,

     Welcome to the NCPI notes conference.  The situation that you are
  in will be extremely emotional and a financial strain on your life.  
  This conference should be able to help guide you through some of your
  roughest days and hopefully it will help you keep your sanity and
  assist in guiding you on some of the toughest decisions you will have
  to make.

  As you can see, the judicial system is very unfair on how child support
  should mandated.  The laws in each state are very different in how 
  child support is determined.  Hopefully you will find this conference
  enlightening and that working with the system is better than fighting
  it.

  This conference as you can see from previous replies, has helped to
  "just cope" with the situation.  One thing to keep in mind and it's
  mentioned over and over in here, and that is the children's rights are 
  the most important thing.

  Feel free to let it go in this conference.  After all, this is what it
  is all about.

  
  Kenn

    re .33
    
    You're in the age old trap that *many* men get into:  Try to be a 
    nice guy and give her a break and--WHAM!!, and after the decree
    is final, it can be tough getting it changed.
    
    I would suggest that you go to your local public or college library 
    and ask for the reference section.  Ask for help in locating the 
    Legal section and locate the laws on divorce for your state.  Any
    local public library that I have seen has a set of state statutes.
    It's tough reading at first.  Keep your dictionary handy.  It may
    be rather tough emotionally to get yourself to do this, but it's a
    cheep way to pass the time (Yeah. I know. Bad joke).  There may not
    be a lot you can do after-the-fact, but there may be *something*, and
    at least you will *know* what you can and can't do.
    
    fred();

    first, I am a custodial parent. 
    second, I can't believe what you all are paying in support! I've been
    divorced 5 years, never had a raise in support(it did get lowered)(I'll
    introduce myself in the intro file.)I recieve a grand total of........
    $35.00 a week and I have to pay all medical, dental ect. plus 1/2 of
    the travel costs to fly our daughter home(Indiana)at christmas(2weeks)
    spring break(1week)and Summer vacation(all summer)I think I got ripped
    off! He makes more money that I do and lives in a house that his father
    owns so pays no rent, the cost of living in IN is considerably less
    than here,San Jose, CA were I pay $1100 amonth so I can live in a
    neighborhood were I don't have to be overly worried about crime and so
    my daughter goes to a good school. And can you believe he complains
    about paying that much even though he doesn't have to pay when he's got
    her! Plus he gets her every other year on his taxes(which I found out
    he claims her every year anyway)Well the rest of my frustration will be
    vented in the intro. But surely there's some fair ground betwwen what I
    get and what you all pay. It's people like him that make it hard for
    the rest of you.

    I think it's time for you to visit a GOOD lawyer!
    
    tony

    I believe that I have the responsibility of paying for a fair share of
    my kids support.  The key words here are "fair share".  My ex is a
    registerd nurse who works part time so she only earns a little over
    15K......on paper.  She also works under the table for her boyfriend
    at a rate of another 10 to 15K.  Now add the 12K per year that I give
    her in child suppoert and you've got a pretty good life style going for
    you.  I don't know about anyone else, but It almost killed me when they
    set the support payments up.  As someone said in an earlier note, 30%
    of the gross income works out to almost 50% of the net.  living on half
    of your income is a reel problem.   Especially when your also paying
    the debts incurred during the marrage too.  I understand that I need to
    support my kids, but 50% of my take home is a little on the "steep"
    side.
    
    I have been divorced for 4 years and have found a wonderful woman who I
    love very much and would love to marry.  The problem here is that the
    minute we said "I do" my ex would have us back in court to attach part
    of her pay too.  I can't afford to take a risk that she would win an
    action based on this, nver mind the lawyers fees on top of everything
    else.

    

    Re: .38
    
    > The problem here is that the minute we said "I do" my ex
    > would have us back in court to attach part of her pay too.  
    
    Is there anyone who reads this file that has had first hand
    experience with a court that has tried to do this?  If so,
    what happened?
    
    I can't conceive of going along with something this outrageous.
    There aren't many things that I would find worth defying the court,
    but this would definitely be one of them.
    
    Steve
    
    

    If there is something illegal going on, there is the IRS here. And that
    always makes life intesting when someone is working under the table has
    to show up to find out where all this extra money comes from. Call your
    local IRS and get info. It is a criminal offence.

    I agree with the genera attitude stated by many here, that support is
    for the welfare of the children.  I have always been proud of the fact
    that I paid what and when I should.  I know that she does not use it
    for the kids completely, but the girls know that to so she really ends
    up hurting her own relationship with the children.  
    
    My main effort is to make sure that my children know that I am part of
    their lives and care for them (easier said than done considering the
    obstructions their mother has tried to raise at times).
    
    My present wife resents the loss of income but it would never occur to
    me to try to do otherwise.
    
    The situation is that I pay for airfare so they can visit me and full
    support while they are here.  
    
    Now comes the BS part of the deal.  She threw our 15 year old daughter 
    out of the house at the end of November and I helped this child find a
    temporary situation until the Christmas break so she could tie up some
    loose ends at school.  I CONTINUED (had to) to pay full support as well
    as spending several hundred for the temporary arrangements.  Unless I
    can get some kind of consent decree really soon (and my lawyers have
    been working on it) I will have to pay in January also. 
    (AAAAAArrrRgggHHHH!!!!!!!)   I still cannot understand how any parent
    can use/abuse the children in the battles with the ex.  It flabbergasts
    me!

    
    I have seen reference to a Colorado Supreem Court decision that says
    "the child must be living with the parent in order for the parent to
    collect child support".  Don't know what it's like where you live
    though.
    
    fred();
    

    I'm wondering about the possibility of having the child support payments
    raised.  First of all, I'm the full custodial parent. He has unlimited
    visitation, and when we were in the same state hardly ever saw them, and
    since I have moved to Texas, he has not seen them at all, nor asked, or
    attempted to (although he is saying he will see them in December of
    this year, which will make it 18 months since he has last seen them).

    I have 3 (now) teenaged girls, and am receiving $600 every two weeks
    by garnished wages directly from his company. I was divorced in Mass,
    and all I asked for at the time was that amount (that is what I figured
    I needed to just make ends meet in extra housing/utilities cost).

    Now that the girls are teenagers, they are eating more than ever, and
    their clothing costs, medical costs, etc are building.

    I am considering leaving my current job situation due to medical
    problems, and will be making extremely less than what I do now, if I do
    that.

    Do I have a right to go to court and ask for more child support?  I
    have no idea what my ex makes (He is an assistant terminal manager
    with Roadway trucking), and even if I asked, I doubt he would tell me.

    I know he seems to have a lot of money for concerts, running back and
    forth between Mass and New York, etc, but I don't know his finances at
    all.

    What would it take? How you ever been though your EX asking for more?
    What happened?  Am I being unfair in my thinking?

    re  .43 Gale
    
    You have a right to go back for change in support payments for change
    of circumstance.  In Colorado that change would have to manke  > 10% 
    change in support payments.  The court *may* take into account whether 
    the change was voluntary or not.  You also have to figure in the 
    legal expenses, and IMHO $1200/mo already buys a *lot* of twinkies.
    
    Disclaimer:: I am not a lawyer and anything I say in this note or this
    file is to be taken as legal advise.  Just my experience and openion.
    
    fred();

  re: .43

  Gale,

  You do have the right to go back to court if the needs of the children
  have changed and/or increased.  I don't know what the laws are in Texas
  but I would check it out.

  $600 every 2 weeks for 3 children is a hefty sum.  Try to remember that
  the best interest of the children are what will be looked at.  The
  court and/or your attorney can/will find out how much your husband
  makes and that will be the determining factor, along with your 
  income.

  Take care...

  Kenn

    Correction, that is $600.00 a month, with $300.00 recieved every two
    weeks, for a total of $600.00 a month, not $1200.00 a month.
    
    Gale