Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

   Dave,

   I hear exactly where your coming from!!  I am always sending things
   to my childrem, calling them, etc.  I'll drop a post card in the
   mail with "I Love You" written on it so they'll know that I am
   thinking of them.

   There's been plenty of years when I look forward to Father's day
   to find a card in the mail from my daughters, but I have only received
   one and that was after I moved out here.  It definitely hurts.  It
   makes you want to crawl into a shell and hide.  

   It has to be alot harder on you especially since there appears to be
   no communication what-so-ever.  I feel for you.  Someday, when your
   gone and the children go through your stuff, they'll realize how
   much you loved them.  It's something they will have to live with the 
   rest of their lives.  I don't want any child to realize that hurt
   because once it's there, you can't lift it.  We can't force children
   to call, write, etc. because as you know, children hate to be forced
   to do something.  However, if you keep sharing your love with them
   maybe they will wake up before it's too late.

    Re .0  Know anyone that can hand deliver it to them?
    
    Keep on writing and sending post cards, etc.  Don't stop!
    
    It does hurt when there is no response.  I have that right now.
    My children are 300 miles away and phone calls are simply too
    expensive to make frequently.  I've gotten several letters from
    my 15 year old daughter, but none from the younger boys since the
    divorce last summer.
    
    In addition to sending letters, I've started sending a tape showing
    them a typical 3-4 day period in my life. I talk into it about what I
    am doing, etc.  I'll even have a couple of people at work talk.  This
    gives them an idea of what life is like for me.  They haven't responded
    (my ex won't help in that area), but I do know that they listened to
    the first tape I sent a lot!  So much so it got to my ex and drove her
    batty.  But they haven't sent anything back. 
    
    My attitude is that the children are busy and they mean well, but don't
    have the maturity it takes to be consistent.  When we get together, we
    are close and have a good time.  They greet me as I drive up and all
    that is very reassuring that I am getting through.  I'm a little
    bit hurt by their lack of response in the form of letters or a tape,
    but it does come back one way or the other.
    
    I guess we give love not necessarily expecting it to come back,
    but hoping it does.  Maybe it comes back in a different way then
    we thought and later than we thought?
    
    Besides letters and tape recordings, does anyone else have something
    they do to bridge the gap?

    
    			John

    
    
    I am a girlfriend of a non-custodial dad.  His daughter is only
    3.5 so written communication is not possible yet.  But he
    has court ordered phone calls which he very rarely receives.
    Many times when the mother does feel like calling it is well
    after the child's bedtime.  Yet she is satisfying the requirement
    of placing the call.  
    
    Whenever Erin is with us if it falls on a holiday I usually
    take her out and we go pick out a card for Daddy.  He really
    appreciates these little tokens.  I was brought up in a family
    that celebrates everything.  My mom still gets angry if I 
    do not go over on Valentines Day to pick up my candy!!!
    
    On Father's Day and his birthday we usually have a great
    celebration which is as much fun for him as it is for
    his daughter.  I feel that it is very important that she
    is able to give these tokens to him.  She really has a ball
    picking out her choice of cards.  Then she gets to "write"
    something to Daddy in them.  When he firts received one he
    was so shocked!  Now it is "our" tradition and it is 
    wonderful that it is something the three of us share.
    
    
    I am not sure what the future holds for him and his daughter
    as it seems to be getting worse again instead of better.
    We haven't seen her since shortly after Christmas.  I really
    feel for the parents that are denied their children.  I miss
    her very much, but I am not her parent and can not begin
    to imagine the sense of loss one feels.  She is so very
    special to him, and she is also special to me.
    
    Take care,
    Michele

    This is my hot button!!!!  I am the product of such a situation.
    My mother was so bitter, and hated my father so much that she made
    life so miserable everytime he tried to see us or send us anything.
    One of my early memories is of being at my aunt's house (his sister)
    and him giving us beautiful dresses and my mother ripping them up
    in front of him and throwing them at him and accusing him of "buying
    us".  He tried, but how much can one person stand, until he finally
    gave up and I have not seen or heard from him since I was eight
    years old.  I remember my mother taking him to court for back child
    support when I was seventeen and she M A D E me go to court with
    her and stand in the back so that I could see the "no good S.O.B.".
    When it was all over, he passed me and said "hello, Susan" and I
    said "hello".  Well, you would have thought I had started WWIII.
     She screamed at me for three days.  
    
    Bottom line:  I do think my father should have kept on trying, however,
    in the end, it is my mother who is suffering.  Many of the incidents
    that happened in my childhood were buried to the point that hypnosis
    was used for me to remember them.  I dislike her as a person and
    do not speak to her.  I have come to accept that this is the way
    she is but that whether or not she is my mother, I have a choice,
    as an adult to associate with her.  All of this in addition to the
    physical abuse I suffered as a child has brought me to this.  I
    am very comfortable with my decision.
    
    PLEASE DADS REMEMBER THIS:  A BITTER EX CAN MAKE YOUR CHILD'S LIFE
    MISERABLE IF THEY "CONTACT" OR "ASSOCIATE" WITH YOU (THE ENEMY)
    AND YOUR CHILD MAY VERY WELL LOVE AND WANT TO SEE YOU BUT THE PRICE
    (DAY TO DAY) IS TOO HIGH TO PAY. 
    
    It is because of this experience that my daughter has free access
    to her dad.  I swore to him at a four-way meeting with the attorney's
    before the divorce that I would never keep her from him and I will
    keep that promise forever.
    
    Sorry I good so heavy.
    Sue
    

    re .4  Thanks Sue.
    
    Sue's reply emphasizes one other thing that non-custodial parents
    must do.  KEEP THE DOOR OPEN.  Do not walk away.  Yes it may be
    very painful to keep in touch with your children even though you
    can't have contact with them, but it is also their right to know
    you and to be able to judge some day for themselves what kind of
    person you are.
    
    There IS life after custody and child_support.  Most states at
    some age will take into account the child's wishes who that 
    child wants to live with (the results of THAT may or may
    not be another story).  I now have two of my children that
    have chosen to live with me.  Boy 16 and girl 15.  I have not
    tried to brainwash the other two into living with me.  I leave
    the door open and maintain contact and visitation.  I'm sure
    that some day they will be able to decide for themselves. Also 
    more of the childs life will be spent after age 18 that before.
    
    It may seem that the problems of today will never pass.  I know.
    I've lost out on 8+ years of my children's lives, but YOUR time
    WILL come.
    
    fred();

    Sue,
    
    Thank you for your note. It was not heavy and I hope you contribute
    much more.  With respect, it is good to talk to one of the real
    victims, if you don't mind.         
    
    Would you mind clarifying one point please.  Are you encouraging or 
    discouraging communication? Your comment about the day to day price 
    being too much is the cause of the confusion. I'll re-read it again.
    
    Did you ever want your father to meet you unbeknown to your mother?
    Did you ever want to see your father when you were an adult.
    For the moment, I'm waiting for their 18th birthday's and keeping
    my fingers crossed.
    
    Dave

    re .6
    
    I am definitely encouraging communication - my message to non-custodial
    parents is "keep trying".  But, as was noted earlier, if no response
    is forthcoming, be aware it may not be because the child does not
    care or love you, it may be that the price is too high to pay. 
    By this I mean that my mother made my life a living hell if I even
    mentioned my father and being a child and coming from a dysfunctional
    home you don't "rock the boat", especially for me because my mother
    was physically abusive and I walked around with the physical and
    emotional scars for quite some time.  Now I am NOT planting the
    idea that all custodial parents are abusive but if they won't let
    the other parent visit or communicate they are BITTER and that comes
    across to the child.  Children do not have the cognitive reasoning
    skills we adults (DID I SAY THAT!) have and their world and
    internalizing takes on a whole different meaning.
    
    I really didn't get out from under my mother's thumb (she is a very
    controlling person) until my late 20's and I didn't get into therapy
    until my early 30's.  But at that time, I did find out my fathers
    address in FLA and by that time I had my daughter and thought he
    would like to know he had a granddaughter.  I wrote him a letter
    but never received a response.  He remarried very shortly after my
    parents divorce and had 1 or 2 more daughters (my step sisters).
     The woman he married was the woman he was having an affair with
    when my parents divorced.  My only conclusions are that (1) he received
    the letter but chose not to open old wounds, (2) she opened the
    letter any made the choice for him (3) he never received it.  I
    have since lost the address and my sources for the original address
    have dried up.  I have mixed feelings.  My maiden name is unusual
    so it wouldn't be hard to track down in Florida but I can't remember
    the city.  Bla,  Bla,  Bla.  What do you think?
    
    I could go on and on about what it took to release myself from her
    grip but suffice it to say that I resemble my father very much,
    dark hair, eyes, jaw line, mannerisms and my sister looks like my
    mothers side of the family and consequently, I reminded her constantly.
    
    For whatever help, please persevere.
    

    Well, I for one am going to carry a copy of .7 with me.
    
    It's a veritable ray of sunshine. 
    
    Thanks very much.
    
    Dave.
    
    PS: My advice, for what it's worth, find out the address and send
    him some photsgraphs of your family.

    One method used to track down non-custodial parents who refuse
    to pay child support is to check with the state driver's licence
    bureau.  I don't know how to go about doing this if your not in
    law enforcement.  If you know someone who is in law enforcement,
    they may do you a favor.
    
    If the name is unusual, try directory assistance for the state
    or area code.
    
    Check into some of the organizations that help track down parents
    of adopted children.
    
    Keep trying until you KNOW you've made contact and they don't want
    to talk to you.  It could be that they thing YOU don't want to 
    talk to THEM.  They may feel guilty about non-support or leaving
    and may need some assurance from you to re-kindle the relationship.
    
    fred();

    	My kids just recently moved to Florida and I am trying everything
    	I can think of to maintain a contact and at all possible I try very
    	hard to keep it consistant. I am not a letter writer, but I do	
    	send post cards, and call them once a week. I also have started to
    	send them magazines, so that when they get them, they will be
    	reminded of how much I love and think of them.
    	
    	Short of moving down to Florida to be nearer to them where I can
    	see them more I don't think I can do much more than try..try....
    	try.....to keep any kind of contact.

   It's the persistence that counts.  It's definitely hard to be a 
   long distance non-custodial parent, if you keep calling and talking
   with them, then they will know at least your trying.

   Welcome to the conference!

   Kenn   

        Sue,

        Reading your note really brought back a ton of memories for me. 
     My mother separated/divorced my father when I was about 3-4.  I was
     NEVER allowed to get to know him in any way shape or form.  My
     father evidently tried to make some contact via mail as she tossed
     me a Christmas or birthday card once.  

        The bitterness that she (her whole side of the family) carries
     is incredible!  I've tried talking about him but it's just not
     possible with her.  I finally got a picture of him a couple of
     years ago.  But that has been it.  I have no way of contacting him
     or any of his family.  I don't have any idea even where to start.

        I remember feeling very special when I got that card.  What
     would I write about?  Anything!  What I've been doing, what my
     hobbies are, the weather ... just talk to your kids.  They're
     very interested in what you have to say about your life, even if
     they can't write back to you.  

        I just wish that my mother had been able to see past her own
     defensiveness and let me know my father.

        Vicki

    A couple of years ago, I was having problems getting throught to 
    the kids.  I went to a custom t-shirt place and had a special
    t-shirt made up for them.  The I sent the t-shirst gift wrapped
    for Valentines day (most any occasion will do).
    
    The lettering on the t-shirts::
    
    MY DADDY LOVES ME!
    
    The kids who have not out gown them still wear them.
    fred();

    
    I don't have any real answers for you, just a plea that you continue
    to let your kids know that you care by maintaining at least that
    minimal contact.  Having been the custodial parent of a child who's
    father never really made that effort (with her or the children from
    his first marriage) I've seen the hurt that results when the kids
    don't think their other parent cares about them.
    If you maintain contact chances are good that you can have a
    relationship with them when they're a little older.  Doesn't make
    up for the years you're missing but sure beats not ever knowing
    them.

    Ditto...... Ditto..... Ditto......
    
    
    Keep trying, keep corresponding, never give up.
    
    Sue
    

    I'm not a non-custodial parent, but one suggestion I have is to send a
    cassette tape.
    
    	They are quick to record ...
    
    	They are easy to reply (re-record) to ...
    
    	They have a tone/character to them.
    
    	There are mailers in the store ..
    
    Just one man's idea.
    
    				Charlie

Do you ever get into the situation where you have a problem, spend hours
    agonising over it and then someone pops their head around the corner
    and suggests something so obvious you feel slightly embarrassed
    for not thinking of it either?
    
    Great idea Charlie, it gets round the problem of the younger ones
    trying to read my writing..
    
    Wonderful idea, now why did I not think of that....
    Dave

    
    That would be great if the custodial parent would help the
    little ones to use the tape machines.  
    
    I know in our case, this just would not happen.  
    When Erin was up last we had a ball with her playing "fashion
    model".  We used a Polaroid which she loved because she was
    able to see the pix as soon as they were done.  She had
    taken a couple of her dad. I suggested to her that she
    could keep a couple of her and dad for her moms house.
    She was sent home with them, but to this day we have not
    been able to find out if she is allowed to have them
    where she can see them.
    
    So certain methods will work, but only if the custodial parent
    helps.

    Hi,
    
    It's been an awful long time since I read anything in here let alone
    contributed to this conference. Time to make amends. 
    
    Some of the comments have made me smile a bit, most are sad. What a
    world we live in. Anyway, I wrote a few postcards to my children, never
    got a reply but never expected any. For the past 2 months there has
    been a delay in the maintenance payments. The money has gone through
    albeit 3 or 4 weeks late and I felt so guilty I didn't write. Now I
    reckon I'll only write after I know the maintenance is paid. Daft isn't
    it? Incidentally, how does 300 pound stirling per month compare to "the
    other side of the pond"?
    
    Also, my wife has a daughter (19 years) by her first marriage. I've
    told her about the conference but she prefers conventional mailing
    methods so if anyone is interested my wife is looking for some 
    pen-pals. Claire is interested in travelling, reading, history, 
    antiques and especially people. She has lived in Kenya and
    visited Hong Kong, Italy, France, Germany, Malaysia etc etc
    She has a twin in Malaysia actually and relatives in Canada.
    If you're interested please drop me a line or leave a reply here 
    and I'll get in touch with you.
    
    Fred, if this note should be somewhere else feel free to move it.
    
    It feels good to be back.
    
    Dave       

    re dave
    I'm not a moderator so I can't move anything.
    
    On a rough guestamate 300 pound is about $500.  Probably about
    avarage these days for > 1 child.
    fred();

    
    oops, sorry Fred. I did state that it's been a long time.....
    
    			ho hum
    

    It is done.
    
    Al
    Co-Mod

    18th Nov. is Chris' 9th birthday. A few weeks ago it was Vicki's
    7th birthday. 
    
    Last time I saw them he was in hospital, she was taken away by the
    in-laws:  It was Spring 1985. 
    
    Still no contact. Most of the time I manage, but in Nov and Dec
    (Christmas) it gets to me.
    
    Dave