Conference quark::mennotes

225.0. "What is equality" by DELNI::MCCAULEY () Wed Jun 05 1996 13:22

    I'm a woman and a feminist.  I have been following this conversation
    with interest. 
    
    The area of child support, custody, men's rights to access to their
    children is unfair.  Some examples.
    
    
    1.  I support that a woman has an unequivocal right over her own body.
    No woman should be required to have a baby against her will.
    
    BUT why should a man not have similiar rights.  A man does not have the
    right to force a woman to have an abortion if she does not want one. 
    But if a woman has the choice to 1. have the baby, 2. abort, 3. give
    the child up for adoption, then why does the father not also have the
    right to give the child up for adoption?  What right does a woman have
    to say, I want to keep  a baby as a single mother and I also want
    to insist that the biological father support the child?.  The man
    should have the same options as the woman.
    
    2.  As a woman, I demand equal access to the workforce and equal access
    to career.
    
    BUT why should men have to support equal access to career, promotion,
    opportunity in the work force and at the same time be expected to
    provide 100% of the Financial Support for  children?
    
    3. As a woman, I appreciate that my partner is nurturing, caring, and
    involved, active parent.  As a woman, I insist that my partner carry
    his share of the responsibility for homemaking.
    
    BUt, in addition to this why should Men be considered 100% responsible
    for financial support and women 0% responsible.  Equality goes both
    ways.
    
    
    
    These question don't apply to the father's who walk out on their
    children and refuse to do their part.  They apply to the many good
    fathers who accept their role and responsibility.
    
    As a woman I demand equality.  I am willing to fight for equality of
    both women and men.
    
    
                                           Patricia
    

    RE .0
    
    Thank you
    Steve
    
    I would add that you should ask women/feminists if they have ever
    considered that with all the emphasis on abused women if they had ever
    stopped to thik of the following: Denial of visitation is wrong. If a
    boy grows up to see what his mother did to him in that light (depriving
    him of his fathers time and love etc) and he turns out to hate women in
    general because of that abuses another woman in his adult life, would
    you speak out about abuseive women ie visitation?  
    
    If only one woman was not abused because another spoke out about the
    abuse of a boy and his father, it would be a positive step. 
    
    BTW this was not well received in =wm=
    
    Steve

    
    re .0

    First let me say how much I appreciate a "feminist" who is able to
    look at the situation with an open mind.

    We've tried to hash these questions out in this file before. It usually
    gets the person asking the question attacked with a bunch of name-calling, 
    etc.

    I really don't have and answer other than that there are so many
    "feminists" out there who really do want to have it both ways:
    Get rid of the inequality when it hurts them; keep the inequality
    when it benefits them.  And who are amazingly able to argue both
    sides in the same breath without batting an eye.  Which leads me
    to wonder if "equality" is really what they're after.

    fred();

    The family (man, wife, two daughters) who left the Freeman Compound
    in Montata yesterday were hiding out there because the mom was facing
    felony charges in Utah for "violation of visistation rights".  Actually
    it looks more like the NCP father had been granted custody of one of
    the girls, and mom was facing fedral kidnapping charges.  Details are 
    sketchy, but it appears that a "deal" was made where charges against 
    mom would be dropped in excange for leaving the compound.
    
    fred();