Conference quark::mennotes

    Whelp... Sounds like the next time she leave the kid longer than she is
    to do such, of course with all the documents possible, file for
    custody. 
    
    Also make sure you have ALLL The issues from the police, the doctors,
    etc all lined up in a good order to walk into the court and file.
    
    But, so far, from what I have read, there is little hope that you can
    get custody less she is convicted of drugs, or child abuse, or etc.
    Leaving the kid in a bar will also get her to loose custody. Leaving
    the kid in a car alone, esp in the summer, for any length of time can also
    get you custody. Make sure you check the child for bruses, esp the
    bottoms of his feet. There was a case of this by dear ma-ma and a
    custody battle with one of the fathers of the united side. Mom was a
    real nazi!! Whacked the kids feet for punishment. 
    
    Documenting all phone calls, all police reports, all conversations with
    the child only builds the case if you believe you have one. There are
    allot of kids whose dad they would like to be with because of stories
    like this. I wish you the best! 
    
    

    
    Ditto what George said.  I know you said you do already, but the best
    thing you can do is DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.  The courts don't
    want to hear she-said-she-did.  They want EVIDENCE, and WITNESSES. 
    Even though you KNOW what is going on, be able to back it up with
    documentation and witnesses.

    You have to know in your heart that you are doing what is right.  If
    you are, then never give up, never stop.  Even if you lose this battle,
    you aren't defeated until you stop trying.  If you lose this time, then
    you  have to start over building a case for next time.  It took me nine 
    and a half years and three tries, but I finally won.  If anyone had
    told me it would take that long, I don't know if I would have held up.
    You just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. If you
    are right you will eventually win.

    fred();

    Thanks guys, 
    Yes there is more to the story than what I wrote. I could make some of 
    your hairs curl in your nose. He really didn't want it to
    come to this. He tried every way to get her to take a break, she'll
    undergo some extensive medical treatment this summer and hasn't made
    arrangements for their child, yet when her ex asked her if he could
    help by taking their son for the month of july...the poop started to
    fly. But anywho...
    
    thanks for your words of encouragement. It's a real downer for two very
    up people. We are becoming consumed with this situation and it's
    beating us into the ground..and it's only just begun.
    
    thanks..
    me
    
    
    

    When the road gets tuff the week get screwed, stay tuff our
    they/it/what ever will screw you to the walls. But, if you do some
    smart things like take walks, stay away from booze, get lots of rest.
    And let the ex talk allot to the answering machine. Let her yell, rant,
    rave, at the box, or yell, rant and rave at an expenisve attorney.
    Avoid direct conversations at all time. Use the beloved mail system,
    the attorney, and other. Aloof from the ex is the best. You cannot hit
    a moving target or a well hidden one. And she, the ex, has her verbal
    bullets that rank and torment your brains to death.
    
    Peace, love, and a terminal mistakes at the operating table.:)
    

    oK, here we go again. We rec'd the little one, late again as usual.
    This time, he had a sun burn bubbling on his back..she made a comment
    that "he was working on his tan" knowing we were taking him to a beach
    for the weekend. She had been asked a week in advance if we could take
    him out of schoolfor the day..(monday) she hemmed and hawed about 
    him graduating from kindergarden and he was learning new songs.. but 
    told my SO that he didn't have to "beg" for his son..which he does do 
    every other weekend. He spent 3 days at the beach with sunblock and a 
    t-shirt and got no color..amazing..
    Also, she purposely left me off the invitation list for his graduation
    to take this recently new boyfriend instead. I'm going any how but that
    is not the point, the boy insisted that I be at his graduation and I 
    won't let him down. 
    Yesterday we rec'd a copy letter from the lawyer speaking with her lawyer
    about medication we wouldn't administer. We keep the prescription that
    stated ..."as needed" in big letters. This was sent to her lawyer..
    also stating that she has been told by the doctors that her smoking was
    causing most of his breathing problems..and we don't smoke so he is 
    fine when he gets to us....
    
    oh and by the way, she is filing a suit with FunWorld in laconia for an
    incident that happened a year ago and she's using the liability lawyer
    for this custody battle. 
    
    Can she do that??? What are her chances of 
    winning this custody battle with a lawyer not versed in family law??
    
    needless to say we found out last night she's going away for the
    weekend starting tomorrow with her "new" boyfriend to pennsylvania but
    has no problem with taking their son out of school..but she hemmed and 
    hawed about monday... blows my mind..
    
    She is not dealing with a full deck of cards..
    
    sorry for the banter...just a little bit of steam flowing. 
    
    me
     

    Did you run the child to the local intake center? Either the hospital,
    or your HMO? Anyplace that will document that this has happened? IF you
    have not... DO IT NOW!!!

    re lawyer and family law: Depends on the attorneys past back ground.
    Sometimes they are versed as you are because they have done it. But
    then again, it could be to your advantage. :)
    

    
    re .5
    
>    Can she do that??? What are her chances of 
>    winning this custody battle with a lawyer not versed in family law??
    
    Nothing says a lawyer can't practice in any and all areas.  How good
    he is in which area remains to be seen.
    
>    also stating that she has been told by the doctors that her smoking was
>    causing most of his breathing problems..and we don't smoke so he is 
>    fine when he gets to us....
    
    If you can get an "expert witness" (doctor) to testify that they childs 
    breathing  problems is due to the mother's smoking, you could probably
    cook her goose.  Bear in mind I'm not a lawyer, but this would be
    considered endangering the child.
    
    fred();

    
    >    She is not dealing with a full deck of cards..

    Repeat after me: Sugar and spice and everything nice, that's what
    little girls are made of...snakes and snails and puppy-dog's tails,
    that's what little boys are made of. (I'd put a smiley here, but
    I'm just too tired and cynical today).

    fred();

    The doctor has already documented the smoking thing. supposedly she has
    been asked by her lawyer to quit smoking. She told the dr that it
    wasn't her smoking that was causing this problem..she has head as thick
    as the china wall...the dr also told her he wouldn't diagnose asthma
    until she quit because he wants to eliminate all factors. However,
    Since she's quit smoking the child hasn't had any breathing problems...
    (re: about a week).  
    
    Lawyer:
    Well, I'm not so sure how good he is in liability law either..this case
    has been going on for a year plus..it was a really stupid thing she
    did, it's like the mcdonalds coffee thing..she stuck her finger in
    a skeetball socket and alledgedly got electricuted..but continued to
    play until her quarter was up.... 
    We just laughed about things last night because we don't know what else 
    to do. Some of the letters we are receiving copies of are kind of humorous.
    ..we've already given all the paperwork to his lawyer. I mean mounds of 
    paperwork and documented proof from atleast three professional experts. 
    2 doctors and a teacher. Now she's back stroking to repair that paperwork.  
    
    Everyday gets a bit harder. 
    
    

    re .10
    
    >    Everyday gets a bit harder. 
    
    Hang tough.  Often the path to high ground treavels throught the swamp.
    
    fred();

    Thanks Fred, 
    
    I feel like the creature from the black lagoon has envaded my life so it
    would serve to prove your comment right...I guess the high ground will
    have a great reward...peace and quiet!  How did ""I"" get an ex-wife???
    
    

    >How did ""I"" get an ex-wife???
    
    Hey! Its not only the man you marry, its the extended family you marry
    too!!:)
    
    Reminds me of the Dear Abby yuck:
    
    Dear Abby,
    
    I am dating a woman who is out on parrol for smothering her 6 month
    old. I have a brother in the big house for armed robbery. My mom is the
    states most proficint (sp) check forger. And I have a record for petty
    crimes. I also have a brother who works for Digital Equipment Corp. 
    
    My question is, should I tell my girlfriend about my brother who works
    for Digital?
    
    Signed 
    Confused

This came to me in my email this morning:
    
If there is no struggle, there is no progress.  Those who profess to favor
freedom and yet deprecate agitation are people who want crops without plowing
up the ground.  They want rain without thunder and lightening.  That struggle
might be a moral one; it might be a physical one; it might be both moral and
physical, but it must be a struggle.  Power concedes nothing without a demand.
It never did and never will.  People might not get all they work for in this
world, but they must certainly work for all they get.
						   -- Frederick Douglas
    

I'm glad to see Frederick Douglass quoted here, the man is right on, although my
dictionary spells his name differently:

	Douglass, Frederick, 1817?-1895.  American Negro abolitionist.

    oK Guys,
    
    the time for court is drawing near and the tension is so thick you
    could cut it with a knife. I'm trying to focus on different issues,
    he's pushing me away because this is the most difficult thing he's ever
    done. I am very proud of him for having the courage to change things.
    I can't tell him of course cause he's gone to another planet
    emotionally.
    
    This isn't easy for him. He has never made a stand for himself, let
    alone another person. He is emotionally drained. I am emotionally
    drained and court isn't until next week. We are not having fun! I am
    very vocal and he's the silent hold it in type. So I flip out and he
    holds it in.But I'm frightened that he may be building past his ability 
    to deal. 
    
    He is retreating for now. I know he'll fight the good fight.
    I just hope he will maintain his calm composure that I'm sure is making
    her crazy. So far, we know that the judge is notorious for not having
    patience for disruptions in her court. So we have been briefed. But the
    ex's lawyer has not responded to any stipulation or communications from
    his lawyer. He hasn't been practicing for long, his forte is chasing
    ambulances, he's not so good with family law. We have been advised to 
    stay calm, be patient. So we are going forward with everything. This is the
    hardest thing I have ever had to support someone through. He is so
    drained I don't know how much more he can take before he snaps from
    emotional exhaustion.  
    I don't know how much I can take. I don't know how to let him know I 
    am behind him. We've been at it since sunday...this is very stressful.
    Help!
    
    

    
    Been there, done that.  This too shall pass.  This is about the
    closest you can get to combat without picking up a gun.  Its
    even worse if it is your kids that if it is yourself that is on
    the line.  Sometimes all you can do is just tough it out.  Let him 
    know you undersand,  support his decision, and admire him for taking 
    the stand, and you can tell him that there's at least one guy who
    knows totally, absolutely what he's going through.  Tell him also
    that there have been a few here that have gone through it--and won.
    
    Someone in another note file took an exception to the "combat" analogy
    and asked if what I wanted was to shoot it out in the streets with 
    six-guns.  I told them that that would probably be easier.  All that
    could happen there was that you get killed.  If you loose here, then
    you have to sit and watch our kids go down the tubes, while you are
    forced to pay for it.
    
    fred();

    Just thought I'd update this situation. 
    
    First, I don't know how on earth anyone gets through this court thing
    without an ulcer. Having had two myself, I thought I'd get three. 
    The day started out with her and us in two different areas separated
    by a wall. What we thought was an 8:30 meeting with counsel ended up
    not happening at all because her counsel was late and showed up at
    8:55, so we had to go in and get tell the judge that we were going to
    pound out some issues first. Ok, well, given that she has kept her job
    and THIS apt for more than six months and stopped smoking in front of
    the child..(which is the best thing), the lawyer told us, we had a week
    case of child endangerment. 
    
    So within I'd say 25 minutes, he got twice the visitations, one more
    long vacation school week and then when we thought it was all over, she
    told the lawyers that SHE had been doing the commuting back and forth
    and was not going to agree to the 1/2 and 1/2 thing..I had a bird. I
    remained calm though, and squished my stress ball to bits..but then he
    flipped out. This whole thing started because she kept refusing to pick
    up her son on Sundays after We picked up on Fridays. This got so out of
    hand that the police were involved on a number of occasions because it
    was never specified in the orginal documents who would do what, she did
    both drop off and pick up when the child was an infant,  because she 
    worked 5 minutes from his house and the daycare was in her building.  
    
    Now, I do the commuting for pickup or his father. I drove to Billerica
    mass everyother weekend to pick him up to bring him to his dad. SHe
    would bi*c( about Sundays so not to hear the screams, his dad dropped
    him off. I can count on one hand how many times last year. 
     
    Well, 3 hours later, finally, just before ripping the pages up and
    going for broke, she agreed to meet 1/2 way on Fridays between the
    ex-husbands and ex wifes work, (which works out to be her apt in
    Nashua), and 1/2 between homesteads on Sundays...stupid I know but I
    give her a month. Also, her biggest gripe was that she works in
    WEstford Mas and the only reason she came home on Fridays was to have
    her son picked up, she wanted us to drive to MA to pick up the
    child..huh, since he was in daycare after school in Nashua, I didn't
    understand what she was saying she wanted done. She told the lawyer her 
    residence was in MA everyother weekend because she works at her brother
    inlaws house..I explained that she doesn't live in MA but NH and her 
    choice is to work everyother weekend. So I said that I'd pick up the 
    child at daycare in NH after school so she could stay in MA..."she will 
    not pick up MY child. That's MY child not hers, I'm HIS mother I'll pick 
    him up..." Fine. That wasn't the issue. the issue was her having to leave 
    mass. So needless to say. We spent all this money to get what he asked 
    for in April anyhow. We could have avoided this had she not spent all this
    time making the chld sick and not putting him first. So to make herself 
    feel better, she imposed a 50mile radius stipulation so that neither one 
    of them could move more than 50miles away from each other. Big deal, 
    she lives 47 away from us right now. She can't move or move out of state 
    without 30 day notice and a court order. She can't smoke in the presence of
    said minor child because of his breathing problems(which since she was
    requested to quit by both lawyers, he hasn't had one problem..not one
    cough or sniffle - amazing huh).She asked for a child support reeval,
    which we knew was coming and we felt a bit blessed that it ends up only
    20 dollars more a week. She put the garnish on his work check so that
    DSS is going to pay for her. He's is greatful, no more hassles from
    her when the mail is late. The child knows something happend. We didn't
    inform him, but mommy told him daddy was "evil and trying to steal him
    from her"...nice mommy huh. If he asks we tell him. He told us it
    wasn't fair that Mommy didn't help pick up and drop off...this from a 6
    year old. 
    So far so good. she is still a bit unsettling. One minute she is the
    mary poppins of the year and the next she is yelling and screaming and
    ranting about something she didn't get and how everyone else is
    responsible for her pain and anquish. I'm glad it's over. As I said I
    give it a month, I'll be picking him up a daycare because her laziness
    always wins out. 
    
    thanks for your support. 
    
    me  

    
    It may seem like it's all over (for now), but for heavens sake
    DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.  Keep any and all papers and
    communications with her.   Keep a log/journal of _every_ contact 
    with her. If she starts flaking out again, if the kid starts showing 
    up with problems again, the documentation can be admissible evidence 
    in court.
    
    fred();

|I'm glad it's over.

It's never over.  They never give up.  Get used to it.

    >They never give up. 
    
    Very true! Take it from experience! Thus a new meaning 'till death do
    us part'.:( Till they or you draw that lest breath of life, weither
    premature or of natural causes. The lines of seperation and divorce do
    not tran-send(sp) the biologicial levels of dealing with the children
    of the divorce. And they will always be there as a part of keeping good
    and evil a part of that line, 'till death do us part'.
    
    Peace