Conference quark::mennotes

    Geez Dave.....whether it was better than childbirth or not just reading
    the description made me wince and cross my legs.  Sort of like watching
    a movie and seeing some guy getting hit in the nxxx and every man in the
    theater scrunches up?
    
    That pulling chest pain you describe sounds like lots of fun!  I have
    had my share of kidney stones and they HURT, but there is something
    about your procedure which makes we wince more just reading about it.
    
    I have not had a vas an do not plan on having one.  At least this is
    one experience I can look forward to having avoided.  I don't plan
    to have any more kids either, but there are other methods of
    prevention which don't rely on the female to be responsible.
    
    Jeff
    

Dave, I wouldn't have minded you keeping that one to yourself but thanks for
the wonderful description. Wince. Gulp.

I think that's one experience I can live without.

- Paul.

    
    
    Did you wear a Tux, like the guy from Harlem who had the job done ?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Because If he was goin' to be impotent he was goin' ta look impotent
    :-)

    RE;0
    Dave,
         thanks for that wonderful story to read while eating my lunch.;)
    
    
    BTW, have you noticed any changes in your voice ?
    
    Jim

    Any more updates on the long term effects of a vascetomy.  I mean about
    2 or 3 months ago there were reports about vascetomized men having a
    higher incidence of cancer and/or athritis.
    

    > BTW, have you noticed any changes in your voice?

    First of all, I believe vasectomy does not stop the production of sperm or
    hormones, it just cuts the connection between the testes and the penis.
    The testes still produce sperm, it is just rerouted to the urinary tract,
    I think. Only if he were castrated would there be no more sperm or
    hormones produced.
    
    Second, even if he were castrated, his voice would not change, because when
    a male's voice changes, it's a one-time occurence that happens at puberty,
    rather than a condition that is maintained by the constant presence of
    testosterone. Castrati and eunuchs, for example, had high voices because
    they were castrated as children, before they reached puberty.

    OK, now the next step in this little exercise is to point out all the
    places where I'm wrong. 8^)

    - Jim

    Jeez, I can't even get my dog fixed.

    re .0, it sounds unpleasant, but, take heart, you did a good thing. 
    :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Right now there is no need for it, but...
    
    With todays climate towards abortion, fathers, and men, if I ever
    find myself single again, the _first_ place I'm headin' is to the
    M.d. for the ol' snip-snip.
    
    fred();

    
    
    A very painful procedure to be sure.
    
    
    
    Mike
    

I had my visit back in 86.  I have to say the worst part of the
ordeal WERE the stiches.   Down-right wicked uncomfortable!

The process itself wasn't bad.  I went with the out patient surgery
option and the drugs were quite effective....  while they lasted!

But on the other side of the procedure,,,  
it is (mostly) permanent.. (Mostly because I'm not in a hurry to do it
again!) and even though I don't regret having it  done, there I times 
when I think we (me+Wife) may regret it a bit..

Looking back, from today, 
	knowing now, what we know, 
		and not knowing then what we should have..

I think a baby at this point in our lifes, would be a different 
experience..    I don't think I was "there", (if you can catch my drift)
when we  our two children.  I didn't have the patience, I didn't have
the time (seemed that there was always band practice to go to, or a job
to play, I guess I still had a lot selfishness left in me.  I realize
now, that probably I left my wife home with the kids on more nights than
I think I should have.)

My son was born in 79, (I was 22). He'll be 14 this fall (He's about as 
tall as I am,, those who know me, say "Yea, no big deal").  My Daughter 
came in 81, she just turned 12 (and turning into a beautiful young lady)   

back then it seems like life went by at 105  miles an hour.  I realize 
now, that hadn't a clue on anything back then ---- never mind fathering 
children..   At 21, with a measly salary, I was scared as hell when Shawn) 
came into the world in  79..   I guess I took a lot for granted..  Like 
TIME for example.  (I never realized how quickly 16 years would go by)

And now, life and all the associated trials and tribulations look much
different to me.  Now, things are settled, and we're established and
we're still going strong..

Our kids are into, or heading into their teens, and life just doesn't
scare me anymore.  I guess I feel like I know most of the rules now.

and yeah, part of me chuckles when I see our friends and relatives who 
have just recently had kids, going through all the work involved in 
infants and toddlers, and in a wayI sort of say; "Wow!  How we'd  never 
manage that kind of handfull today?" 

But in a way, we miss the intimacy, and love that I think only a newborn 
baby brings. (One reason why nieces and nephews are pretty cool!  
but-still it's not the same.)

I guess my point is, for me anyway, I really don't think I fully 
understood the impact of what I agreed to at 29 years old when the surgeon 
ask me if "I understood the impact of what I was considering"..

Would I have done anything differently if I could go back ??

I still can't say, but at least now I realize the answer wasn't that
easy after all.   And isn't that really the biggest part of 
understanding an answer ??

good luck...

/r

    A few words of advice to anyone who found the base note or some of the
    replies scary:  A wide range of experiences surrounding this operation
    have been described in other strings of this file.  Like other medical
    procedures, the experience depends on both the skill of the doctor and
    the perception of the patient.
    
    I have one ironclad rule:  Any doctor who comes near me with a sharp
    instrument must be a board-certified specialist.  (I assume countries
    outside the U.S. would have an equivalent to board certification.) 
    This may not guarantee anything, but the odds are better.
    
    Tony

    RE:.1 

   >                               but there are other methods of
   > prevention which don't rely on the female to be responsible.
    
    	The only other 100% reliable method that doesn't rely on the the 
    female that I can think of is abstinence.  Do you really want to do
    that?

    Joe     

.11> BLASTA::Pelkey

     One of the best replies I've ever read!  Much wisdom in it...

     Regards, Don

>    First of all, I believe vasectomy does not stop the production of sperm or
>    hormones, it just cuts the connection between the testes and the penis.
>    The testes still produce sperm, it is just rerouted to the urinary tract,
>    I think. Only if he were castrated would there be no more sperm or
>    hormones produced.


I don't get this.  Isn't the urinary tract *in* the penis ?  So if you divert
my sperm to the urinary tract, can't I still impregnate a woman ?

/Eric

I believe the sperm are absorbed into the body, not excreted.

> I believe the sperm are absorbed into the body, not excreted.

That could be right. I always thought the genital duct was rerouted
somehow so that semen got dumped into the bladder, and then later urinated
away.

Anybody know for sure?

- Jim

    My understanding is that the tubes that would carry sperm were cut
    and closed allowing the sperm to go nowhere. The sperm is then
    absorbed into the body. This is what happens with (most) "unused"
    sperm generally so it's not a big deal.

    			Alfred

 The connection between the testes and the urethra starts with the vas deferens.
(The analog of fallopian tubes.) It is the vas deferens which are cut and tied.
Thus the sperm have no connection to the other semen component producing
organs. The sperm then remains in the testes, where production is slowed in
response to their fullness. And I believe excess spermatozoa are absorbed through
the teste walls. The other seminal fluids remain connected and thus upon
orgasm fluid continues to be ejactulated after the vasectomy.

    When I had mine done in '85, I had two incisions, zero pain during the
    procedure except for the pinch of the needle for the local anasthetic,
    and just a little pulling.  On each side, the tube was cut, a small
    piece taken out, and one end folded over before both ends were
    cauterized, this whole thing supposedly reducing the chance of
    spontaneous reconnection.
    
    I had 2 days' worth of Percodan prescribed for post-op discomfort,
    which did help.
    
    No complications whatsoever since then.
    
    

    Oops. I think I'll start checking my sources from now on instead of just
    talkin' out my butt.

    Sorry!

    - Jim

    re:.0
    
    Yeowch!
    
    I'd rather suffer the fate of the guy in The World According to Garp.

    Re: .22
    
    Are you SURE, Mike?  Mr. Irving didn't tell us what happened to
    the guy after that..  (Though to be honest, that scene is painful
    for me because of what happened to Garp's sons.)
    
    				Steve

    Well, Lithgow as the transsexual makes passing mention of it with "at
    least I had anesthesia when they removed *mine*."  ;')

The previous incarnation of this conference has plenty of good material
regarding vasectomies.

Regardless of the claims in the New England Urinal of Medicine re:
increased incidence of Prostate cancer in vasectomy patients, I tend
to take it with a grain of salt. Their most significant piece of
supporting evidence appears to be that vasectomy patients have a
decrease in the amount of seminal fluid produced/discharged. That's
a lot of bull, especially when you consider the inaccuracy of the
measurement with respect to conditions, etc.

Pain? We're talking about a few days of discomfort balanced against
the rest of your lifetime without any concern for being able to
impregnate. No contest in my opinion.

I recall that when I got mine in '74 the GP said "We don't have enough
evidence yet to let us understand the long term effect of leaving the
spermatozoa being absorbed by the body." As far as I'm concerned, they
still don't have sufficient evidence to warn against the procedure.

-Jack

    	I know of one case where there was a short term effect. A neighbour
    of mine a few years ago had major problems a few weeks after, and the
    medical explanation was that his body had reacted to the large-scale
    reabsorbtion of his own sperm by developing an allergy to it. This is
    obviously not the average reaction. I believe they managed to control
    it with a course of desensitizing injections as they do with other
    allergies.

    It was a hundred years ago this year that the 1st vasectomy was
    performed. It there were any long term complications with this
    procedure, would they not have shown up by now?
    
    - Dave

Re: .24

Actually, if you read the book, it tells you exactly what happens....

			Steve

    	Not neccessarily. It took almost 400 years to relate smoking to
    lung cancer.
    
    	It depends what you mean by "show up". It is fairly certain that
    anyone who had a vasectomy 100 years ago will have experienced by now
    any side effects that it may have caused. It is a lot less certain that
    those effects will have been recorded to be available to modern
    statistical analysis. Try asking a doctor what percentage of people who
    have had a vasectomy have in their 60s suffered from arthritis, or
    short-sightedness�. I would almost guarantee that he would tell you that
    nobody has thought to collect that information. 
    
    	There is still research going on into the effects of dietary 
    components of things that have been eaten for thousands of years.
    For instance, France and Italy have the lowest incidences of heart
    disease in Europe. Is it racial, lifestyle, wine, olive oil in the
    diet? I have seen all of these theories. Or is it something unhealthy
    that people do in other parts of Europe that the French and Italians
    don't?
    
    
    �If you masturbate you are likely to go blind, right? So why shouldn't
    a vasectomy have a related effect?   ;-) ;-)

    		        or Vasectomy the Hard Way

    Copied w/o permission from Pueblo Chieftian May 5, 1993, by Juan
    Espinosa.

    A man who was shot in the groin by his girlfriend early Monday after he
    became jealous of her dancing with other men remained hospitalized in
    stable condition on Tuesday.

    Andy M. Alvarado, 31 was shot by Leanna Rose Avila, 40, his live-in
    girlfriend at 1:22 a.m. Monday on 2300 block of Lake Avenue.  Both gave 
    police a home address of 2514 Cedar.

    Alvarado told police he and Avila were at the Broken Dollar and he
    became angry because she kept dancing with other men.  After they left
    the bar, Avila reportedly pulled out a .38-caliber handgun and fired one
    shot, striking Alvarado in the groin area.  The two wrestled for the gun
    and Alvarado ended up with it.

    Avila left the scene and Alvarado went into the Lake Shore Inn, gave
    the gun to the bartender, and said he had been shot.  

    A nurse at St. Mary Corwin-Hospital's emergency room told officer K.A.
    Wilson that Alvarado was being treated for a bullet wound to the scrotum.

    Avila was arrested shortly after the incident.  Bail was set at $25,000
    for Avila, who faces possible charges of first-degree assault and
    attempted escape.  She remained in county jail late Tuesday.

    
    Re .30
    
    Its certainly not *my* dream. 

    re .27
    
>    It was a hundred years ago this year that the 1st vasectomy was
>    performed. It there were any long term complications with this
>    procedure, would they not have shown up by now?
    
    So far all the early patients have died.  Doctors are stil unsure
    whether this is related to technique or is fundamental to the nature of
    the procedure.

re:32

Yuk-yuk-yuk....

		What a kidder

    
    I have a question?  I have a friend that had the vas done about 8 yrs.
    ago and was thinking about having it reversed.  Where does he go and 
    does your chances of it working depend on how long ago you had it done?
    And for the last question, what about insurance, will they cover?
    
    Any info will be appreciated
    thanks in advance
    
    deb
    

Re: .34

See notes 335 and 297 in QUARK::MENNOTES-V1

		Steve

    The worst part for me when I had the old "snip-snip" was having to
    bring a "sample" back into the office for testing.  Of course the
    office waiting room was full when I walked in with my container in a
    brown paper bag.  The receptionist was not very discrete, everyone in
    the room became very aware of what I was delivering, and I got a lot of
    stares when the receptionist confirmed that my sample was "freshly
    produced."  I was suppost to bring in a second sample, but I figured
    that if my wife (now ex-wife) didn't get pregnant again, that was
    testing enough.
    
    Keith

    I'm with .20. I had the 2 incision method back in '89.
    
    I had postponed getting mine done for about 3 years once I decided that
    it was necessary, just because of descriptions like in .0. The pulling
    description from a friend really made me cringe.
    
    I had mine done by a urologist who used 2 small incisions - maybe 1/4 -
    3/8 inch each. Each novocaine injection was just into the skin and only
    stung for a few seconds. They were high on the scrotum and no where 
    near the center of "that pain" that all men know. There was no pulling
    sensation at all - in fact the only think that I felt was the
    novocaine. Perhaps the nurse helped. She kept me engaged in a
    discussion around the negative ecological impact of fibreglass boats (like
    mine) that will pollute the world long after they are used.
    
    The stitches were no big deal. They fell out after a few days.
    
    For any of you who feel the need to be infertile and have been putting
    it off for reasons like were described in .0, it doesn't need to be
    that way at all. Mine was done at COncord (N.H.) Hospital by Dr David
    Green, of Concord Urology. Several of my co-workers have had similar
    experineces to mine. Find out who does a good job in your neighborhood.
    I certainly wouldn't want anyone yanking on my vas, either, but it
    doesn't need to be done that way.
    
    Bill
    

> See notes 335 and 297 in QUARK::MENNOTES-V1

Don't bother with 335.  See notes 10 and 297.

    
    A former Deccie who had a vasectomy actually had another child
    afterwards and the procedure had to be repeated. Is this possible
    or could it of been some other type of procedure he had. I heard this
    from him. Lets assume it was in fact his child.

    re .39
    There is a chance that the doc could cut the wrong tube,  there is a 1
    in bazillion chance (but it does happen) that even if done properly it
    can still happen.  Also in some procedures the tubes are just tied and
    not cut.  This procedrue is used because it isn't so hard to un-do. 
    The knot can, in rare occasions, come undone.  That's why men who have
    had vasectomies should still have the sperm count tested from time to
    time.

    Also there is an amount of sperm left in the body for up to six months
    after that can cause pregnancy.  My sister and her husband were 
    presented with their fourth child because of this.  I hear it's not
    uncommon.
    
    fred();

    > sperm left in the body for up to 6 months...
    
    What my urologist told me was to come back in 8 weeks with a sample.
    He said that 25 ejaculations was a standard number for the semen to 
    be clear of sperm. I believe he had me come back twice with a sample - 
    I think it was the second one that was at 8 weeks.
    
    It is relatively common for cut ends of the vas to grow back together;
    that is why he did a "triple procedure" on me: cut, remove a section,
    and put "caps" on the ends of the vas. He told me not to think about
    having his procedure reversed. He was doing it in a way that was
    permanent.
    
    Bill
    

    Here is a recent article from my local paper...
    
    SAN ANTONIO, Tex, - A prostate cancer screening of 40,000 men found no
    evidence to support a link between the disease and vasectomies, a
    reacher said Monday. David Crawford said screening last September
    detected no increase in prostate cancer rates among 8,000 participants
    who had undergone vasectomies. Earlier studies found a higher risk for
    prostate cancer among men with vasectomies, with the risk increasing
    for men who had vasectomies more than 20 years earlier.
    
    - Dave

Probably should be subject matter for another string, but a report on the
national news tonight (NBC?) noted that in many cases, prostate cancer
should simply be left alone anyway. The rationale is that if it hits
men late enough in life (which it generally does), it generally won't
progress in a manner which substantiates a health risk more critical than
the negative impacts of treatment would.

-Jack

    I have read that it often progresses so slowly that the guy dies of
    something else first.
    
    But then, I read the horror stories of it tending to spread into bone
    and what a nightmare that can be so it leaves me wondering what to
    believe.
    
    I also have read that in certain countries with low fat diets prostate
    cancer is virtually unheard of! 
    
    Guess there is another reason to reduce the fat in our diets guys!
    
    Jeff

    Well, my father's experience doesn't agree with that information.  He
    was diagnosed with a prostate problem when he was 69, and they did the
    procedure where they clean it out.  The doctor told him at that point
    that only about 15% of men who have that procedure get cancer of the
    prostate, but he turned out to be 1 of them.  Two years after the first
    surgery, they found cancer during a routine screening, and set him up
    for the surgery.  The doctor felt so strongly about not waiting, that
    wehn my father's mother passed away during the time they discovered the
    cancer and the surgery, he could not come up for the funeral because he
    was scheduled for tests and such that could not be pushed out or the
    surgery would have to be pushed out.  They removed his prostate and
    told my dad that another week or 2 would have meant the cancer would
    have had the chance to spread out of the prostate and into the rest of
    his body, and he would have died shortly after.  He was 71 years old
    then, so I don't think that the cancer had either a slow progression or
    that he was too old for treatment.  I figure he'll probably live
    another 20 years or so if he does what his parents are doing (my
    grandmother was 91 when she died, and my grandfather will be 93 in
    July).
    
    Also, my husband has 2 cousins and an uncle who died from prostate
    cancer. His uncle was in his 80's but one cousi was 71 and another was
    74. Both were in excellent health, but the prostate cancer was
    diagnosed too late for treatment.
    
    And my father's cousin died from prostate cancer around the same time
    my dad was going through all this because his cousin's cancer had not
    been diagnosed early enough.  The cousin was in his late 60's at
    the time.
    
    Cathy

    Hi all,
    I don't want to worry anyone but I once had to visit a guy in hospital
    who had a vasectomy.He was 27 with 3 kids,after the surgery which was
    done on the NHS he developed complications.Could you believe gangrene!!
    Horror.He ended up having to have his testes removed to stop the
    infection.All is not lost now however as he had falsies inserted which
    are impregnated with testosterone,this is supposed to help relieve the 
    impotence which would have followed the testoctemy. I,ve now lost touch
    with the guy so I can't say how he's getting on,but what a dreadful
    thing to happen. It seems people are between the devil and the deep
    blue sea with contraception,no surgical procedure is completely without
    risk, most womens' pills seem to have some worrying side effect and
    barrier methods are notoriously prone to misuse.(read "sure it'll be OK
    honey" We've all been guily at some time or another.)
    As my wife says "Pregnancy is the only sure method of birth control."
    
    Regards 
    Geoff
    
    ps.Hope this doesn't put anyone off,it's meant to make sure you go to a
    specialist.Don't trust your equipment to a national health butcher
    whatever you do.
    
     

.46> no surgical procedure is completely without risk

Right.  This is one of the scarier facts of life.  But I think the odds are 
pretty good.  I avoid hospitals and surgery whenever I have a choice, but
when there's no choice I just have to accept the risk.

I suppose if I were considering some more or less optional surgery, I'd 
check out the possible complications and level of risk.

>    are impregnated with testosterone,this is supposed to help relieve the 
>    impotence which would have followed the testoctemy. I,ve now lost touch

Warning, possible folk beliefs ahead.

By what I hear, castration of adult men does not produce physiological impotence.
Erection and ejaculation are basically independent of the testes.  These is 
some risk of psychological impotence, and I am not surprised that a doctor
would treat it.  I could not support this paragraph with any citations of the 
medical literature.  Nor with personal experience, thank the gods.

>    specialist.Don't trust your equipment to a national health butcher

Geoff, I guess you are writing from Great Britain.

Until I see the numbers, I'd guess that the odds of complications don't 
depend much on how the surgery gets paid for.  I suspect it is mostly
bad luck: the surgeon is having a bad day, or a bacterium shows up in the
wrong place at the wrong time.  You may be able to improve the odds by avoiding
people and places with a casual attitude.  For all I know, that may mean that
in Britain one should avoid the National Health Service.

    	In the 47 years since I was born I have only twice been into a
    hospital other than visiting, and both times to have a minor wound
    stitched up. I certainly don't advocate going to a hospital for
    anything, but in that sort of case the risk of infection is less if you
    do. Having said that, British hospitals have an excellent record, and
    if you pay for something that is treated as standard under the British
    National Health Service then most of what you are paying for is more
    luxury in your accommodation, and avoiding a waiting list (particularly
    if it is optional surgery).
    
>By what I hear, castration of adult men does not produce physiological impotence.
>Erection and ejaculation are basically independent of the testes.  
    
    	This is also what I have heard (well, not heard, but read in a
    scientific bulletin that I no longer possess). It's relevant for those
    that shout for castration of sex criminals.

    Hi again,
    Thats interesting to hear the removal of the testes doesn't produce
    impotence.I must admit to not actually asking why (bit difficult to ask
    a mate whether he can get it up or not).So I assumed thats why.Perhaps
    the lack of testosterone has effects on the rest of the body and thats
    why they give the impregnated implants.
    Geoff

    I would bet that castration would have a big impact on sex drive due to
    the reduction of testosterone, which, I believe is necessary to produce
    sexual desire.
    
    Jeff

    I thought sex criminals commit their crimes out of hate rather than out
    of horniness.  If so, castration may have a generally calming effect on
    the personality and thereby reduce the tendency towards violence in
    general, with reduction of sexual desire a secondary but nevertheless
    beneficial result.
    
    I have no data to back this up, however, other than reading about sex
    crimes in the papers and on the wire in which men not only rape women
    but also harm them in other fashions, including beating, disfigurement,
    and murder.

    	From rather distant memory, it was an experiment in pre-war
    Germany.
    
    	Faced with the problem of prison overcrowding, the government
    passed a law offering sex offenders an immediate release on condition
    that they agreed to castration and medical supervision after release.
    The offer was only available to repeat sexual offenders.
    
    	After two years the law was repealed. Approximately 60% of those
    released had been convicted yet again. The supervising doctors were
    reporting no change in sexual preference or ability to have an erection
    or orgasm, and at most a minor decrease in sexual drive. It is possible
    that some of the 40% who were not reconvicted had reoffended without
    being caught.
    
    	As a measure to relieve prison overcrowding it obviously included
    sufficient men to be statistically valid within its limits. One of the
    limits would be that since it was merely an offer, it would only have
    been accepted by those sufficiently motivated by prison conditions to
    want to change their behaviour after release. It is possible that if
    the programme had been applied forcibly to those that didn't volunteer
    it might have had a lower success rate.
    
    	As a general comment, it would probably have an even lower success
    rate these days. If testosterone is freely available to athletes I
    expect a determined sex criminal would probably be able to buy it on
    the black market if he felt the need.

.50>    I would bet that castration would have a big impact on sex drive due to
>    the reduction of testosterone, which, I believe is necessary to produce
>    sexual desire.

Are you sure?  What I heard is that sex drive in adult men is not dependent
on continued production of testosterone.  I can see a very large variation in
sexual activity among healthy adult men.  I expect that if that were due to 
variation in testosterone, we'd have heard about it.  I think that sex drive 
is much more psychological than physiological.

.51>    I thought sex criminals commit their crimes out of hate rather than out

Yes, the popular wisdom is that rapists act out of hate.  I don't really doubt
it, but I am suspicious of generalizations, and I don't know the scientific
evidence.

But not all sex criminals are rapists.  Child molesters and exhibitionists are
also usually included.  Depending on the legal system, a lot of other people
can be classed as sex criminals.  

    FWIW:
    
    While the testes are the main source testosterone, there are other
    sources of production in the body.  Don't ask me what the other sources
    are, I was not focused enough to ask the urologist when my dad was
    dying of prostate cancer.  I imagine it comes from some other magical
    little endocrine gland in the body.
    
    Meg                                     

    As I understand it rape is driven by a combination of hate and the
    desire to dominate another.  To generalize and say that all sex crimes
    are driven by hate is, I suspect, inaccurate. As someone else pointed
    out exhibitinalists and certain cases of child molestation don't appear
    to be driven by hate.  For example, the recent case of a musical
    celebrity being accused of child molestation (if he is guilty) does not
    appear to be driven by hate but out of an inability to appropriately 
    relate sexually to other adults.  

    
    
     I had my "V" done on St Patricks day . It was about a 20 minute
    procedure. The only pain I felt was from the 2 novacanes and they
    lasted only about 20 seconds each. Other then that NO PAIN AT ALL
    went home layed done with the old ice pack and stayed on the couch
    that way for the day. I was fine. So far no pain and im back in the
    gym lifting again.
    
    Mine was done in Nashua at the Hitchock clinic by Dr Johnson,
    yes that his name Dr Johnson, I thought it was somewhat comical
    although when I went in for the surgery, there was construction
    going on and I tolfd the Dr. that the sound of the saws buzzing
    was a bit uneasy.
    
    All in all folks.... no pain !!! 
    
    
    Steve
    

    
    did you put some aside "just in case"?

The following was a quickly written response to an inquiry about my
vasectomy and general well being. I thought it might serve as
something of an antidote to all the "quick and painless" stories we
all hear.

(In my case, my brother, a doctor, was most at fault here. He actually laughed
when I told him I was apprehensive about letting somebody get near
that part of my body with a blade, and then he told me he had done the
procedure many times and could do it to himself, it was so simple.)
Anyway, here's what I had to say about the procedure:
 
Long and painful story. It's a good thing that they restrained my arms 
during surgery, or the nurse who decided it would be nice to caress my 
face and croon at me sympathetically after spending 20 minutes of 
treating my genitals as pieces of meat would have had her arm broken in a 
split second. I was so pissed off at the end of the operation that I 
almost lost it when one of the other nurses decided my penis should be 
on the left rather than the right as I sat up to pull my jock strap on. 
(Watching this woman I'd never met before moving my privates around so it 
looked better to her -- or for whatever reason -- just plain irked me.)

All in all, I wouldn't recommend this "minor surgery" to any man. I felt 
everything intensely and used every pain-control technique I ever 
learned. Every time it got too much for me, and I would gasp or grit my 
teeth, the blood-pressure cuff would expand on my arm as the nurses tried to 
make sure I was OK. In fact, the blood pressure cuff expanded each time I 
resorted to the slow-heartbeat/minimal-breath technique, which always blew 
my concentration and that pain-control method out of the water.

I'm back in the water, though, finally. The first two dives caused 
considerable pain, but subsequent dives haven't been at all bad.

Gee, can you tell that I'm still angry? It's been two weeks, and if I see 
that doctor on the street, I will quickly make him sexually inoperable 
for at least a week, just so he can grasp what it feels like.

The whole operation process -- from the doctor being two hours late, to
the 10 minutes of phone calls he had made in the OR while I lay
strapped to the table with my genitals exposed to three women I'd
never met, to the condescending arrogance of the doctor and his three
nurses -- was annoying in the extreme, as well as very painful. 

I came away with a new understanding of the humiliation and
dehumanization I had heard and read about from  women attended by
insensitive male gynecologists. 

I'd advise anybody looking for a vasectomy to avoid this doctor, who
works out of the Urology Clinic of a very respected medical
establishment in Burlington, MA. The whole process
was needlessly complicated and painful, and the subsequent discomfort
was a lot worse and lasted a lot longer than anybody ever suggested.

    I was sorry to read about your terrible experience.  I do hope you will
    send this message (or one darn close to it) to who even manages your
    healthcare, be it the HMO or head of the hospital you were at, also CC
    the doc in on your message.
    
    I hope you heal quickly,
    Jt

    A word of warning to anybody in the U.K. considering having the snip:
    think again if you're considering using the N.H.S.
    
    On 21st December last year I was subjected to an hour of torture on the
    operating table in a Cheshire hospital. It was all done very
    professionally - none of this sitting in a chair in a doctors surgery.
    It was the full gowned-up into the theatre bit, and the staff were
    great. Apart from the doctor, whose excuse for hanging off my bollocks
    for an HOUR was that I had an "unusually thick spermatic chord".
    Rubbish, the guy was a novice and had to call on the consultant to help
    him - after an hour. I'll tell you what it felt like - grasp one of
    your testis and pull it until it hurts. Now pull it until it REALLY
    hurts. Now give it one last yank till your eyes pop out. An hour of
    that was not fun.
    
    In the doctors's defence, he did repeatedly ask me if I wanted to go
    on, but as we had one side done by the time it was really hurting, I
    thought we might as well keep going - there was no way I was going
    through that again.
    
    Christmas was painful this year. And bruising? Aubergine comes to mind.
    
    Phil Gill.

    One MUST use a thoroughly practiced snipper if one is going to
    be the snippee!  None of this 'let's just practice a bit here'
    routine will do.

    p.s.  Did the mule get to live after kicking you that hard?

    My boyfriend who's only in his mid-twenties was convinced by his ex
    that after having their one child he should be snipped and he was. Now
    we may want children in the future. Is this reversible?

Maybe.  It depends on the method used to do the vasectomy.  He should consult
a doctor about this.

				Steve

    Normally.... Nope... outta luck.:(
    

    There are high-level urological specialists that make it their 
    business to achieve the best possible results in reversing
    vasectomies.  Do try all the way up the line to get in touch
    with one of them.  A fertility clinic can start you on your 
    way to productivity.  It really is worth a shot in the dark.
    Next time, have the female have her tubes tied if SHE wants 
    no further children!!!  If it is a mutual decision, it is 
    easier having a snip job.

    justme

I was once in this position myself, and researched it
about three years ago.

It's microsurgery, and not trivial.

It's expensive.

Insurance won't cover it.

Even successful cases often have low yields.

The longer it's been since the Big V, the lower the
success rate.  If it's been, like, 10 years, forget it.

I was sure at the time that it was what I wanted,
but times and opinions change.  Vasectomy is clearly
a better, cleaner, safer option than tubal ligation,
but in the vast majority of cases - over 90% - it's
permanent...

Nevertheless, good luck.

tim