Conference quark::mennotes

	I get compared to Mel Gibson all the time!

	

    
    
    -1
    
       You too:-)

    Kevin Costner.
    
    Jean-Claude van Damme.
    
    Tom Selleck.
    
    

    Many women look up to Mel for his face, Arnold for his bod, Fabio for
    his hair, Costner for his temperament, Cruise for his smile, etc etc...
    
    I don't know if any one man embodies enough of the distinct qualities
    women like, to qualify as "the man."

    Note that this doesn't necessarily have to be someone "women like".
    
    			Steve

    RE: .5
    
    Who's this "Fabio" guy, and what's so great about his hair?
    
    jt

    Phil Donahue embodies all what a 90s man should be.

    Re;8
    Really ? I thought he and Marlo are having difficulties in their
    marriage, coming close to getting a divorce even.


    Jim

    
   >> I don't know if any one man embodies enough of the distinct qualities
   >> women like, to qualify as "the man."

	Yeah, there's DeNiro.

>So how about it?  What man, living or dead, real or fictional, do you think
>embodies society's view of "what a man should be"?  

    I can't think of one. Perhaps men (many men? just me?) are too vain
    to think that some other guy is somehow better in a total sense then
    they are? Oh, sure, we can all point to one guy who is better at one
    thing than we are. We can even point to a bunch of people who, in
    total, do everything we do better. But one person who makes us look
    bad in more or less everything? No, I don't think too many male egos
    would stand for that.

    Besides I figure my wife could have married any man she wanted to and
    married me (16 years ago Friday). I figure that makes me pretty special
    and I'm not about to worry about any comparisons. So if there is one
    guy who makes the rest of you look bad... Well, it must be me. :-)
    
    			Alfred

    			Alfred

.8>  Phil Donahue embodies all what a 90s man should be.
    
    That does it!  I'm going to have a sex change opperation IMMEDIATELY.
    
    Bubba

    Line forms to the rear!

    
       I was told, I'm better looking than Mel Gibson !
    
      :^)
    
    

    
      
     but then, I told her she should get out more. 
    
    :^)
    
    

    I don't know, I can't think of any celebrity that I think embodies the
    Essential Qualities of the Desirable Man.  Robin Williams seems close
    -- very funny, smart, just-right good looking (drop dead gorgeous men
    would make me live in eternal fear that *I'm* not good looking enough
    to keep them), active, not too full of himself, etc.   But that's all
    based on what I see of him through TV and movies, and probably not the
    compleat Robin Williams -- could be he's a real jerk.  :(  
    
    So, no, I can't think of any 'perfect' man.  But I *CAN* think of a few
    men in 'real life' who seem to hold enough of the qualities I find
    perfect to make me wish they were available.  I usually have to settle
    with just admiring from afar.  :)  
    
    Cheers,
    
    kim

    RE: Who's Fabio?
    
    Fabio is an Italian-born model who graced the cover of (some) romance
    novels(?) and has recently come out with a "hunk" calendar featuring
    12 different photos of himself. There was a story about him in TV guide 
    or in the entertainment section of the newspaper a while back...
    
    I'm unimpressed.
    
    /Greg
    

    re .16, I think Robin Williams comes close, too.  He seems to have a
    great personality, he's so funny, bright, and not bad looking either. 
    But, I don't think that too many men would resent him either.
    
    I agree that there don't seem to be a lot of men who have so many
    desirable qualities that men, in general, would resent them.  Mel
    Gibson and Tom Cruise are good looking, for example, but that's about
    it.  Some men might be powerful, or rich, or very intelligent, but not
    be attractive to many women, so they wouldn't be envied.
    
    I was wondering if many men resent Bill Clinton?  He's very popular
    with women.  He has achieved a very powerful position at a relatively
    young age, and he's intelligent, personable, and attractive with a nice
    family, and an apparently happy marriage.  IN a way, he does seem to
    have it all.  He's not drop dead gorgeous, but he's attractive enough. 
    I think quite a few women could see themselves happily married to a man
    like him.
    
    Lorna
    

    re .17, I'm unimpressed with Fabio, too.  In fact, there's something
    about his looks that almost repulses me.
    
    (I'd rather have the President.)  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Bill Cosby tends to come to mind when it comes to the the PERFECT
    husband/father of the '80's. (Replacing whats-his-face in Father Knows
    Best).
    
    I've heard a lot of whisperings about how he's too good to be true, and
    there are people who went out of their way to put the show down because
    it just wasn't "realistic".
    
    And then... there's Mr. Republican himself, Arnie Schwartznegger. There
    are times when I myself wonder what Maria sees in him. Talk about the
    great American immigrant success story of the '80's. 
    
    And then, there's the one man who won the label: Richard Gere. The man
    who made women swoon in "Officer & A Gentlemen"... and then made them
    cry when he married a very attractive model. He's greying now, but he
    often strikes me as a VERY nice package...
    
    Its funny, I must have had my head in the sand for the last few years,
    because all of these men are 1980's phenomena.

>I was wondering if many men resent Bill Clinton?

 I doubt it.

    How about Daniel Day-Lewis?  He's the British actor who starred in The
    Last of The Mohicans, and also won an academy award for best actor a
    couple of years ago for starring in My Left Foot.  He's great looking,
    extremely talented, very intelligent, famous.  He strikes me as
    somebody who seems to have it all.  (His father, the late C. Day Lewis
    was the poet laureate of England.)  
    
    Lorna
    

    re .21, mmm-hmm.   Just as I thought.  :-)
    
    The mere fact that you entered that reply proves to me that you do
    resent him.   :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Lorna, Daniel Day-Lewis is also dating (if that's the correct term)
    Julia Roberts these days (which might make one or two men in this
    country somewhat envious of him.)
    

re .22 

Yep, he's all that and a Brit too !! God, Julia's a lucky lass - I feel sorry
for him though.

- Paul.

>    The mere fact that you entered that reply proves to me that you do
>    resent him.   :-)
    
 Think whatever you want.

    re:.22, Daniel Day Lewis
    
    Too sensitive to be exciting.  No "edge."

    Trying to figure out who society looks up to depends on which society
    you are talking about. My Kevin Costner/Jean Claude Van Damme/Tom
    Selleck was based on magazine photos hung up around the office.
    
    An otherwise intelligent woman I know swoons over Steven Seagal.
    
    Jack Nicholson is probably one a lot of guys look up to; I like
    his edge, and unapologetic self. He is who he is. I don't know if he is
    society's ideal.
    
    I've met Robin Williams; he used to run at a track I used to run at
    occasionally; he was quite nice, and a little spacy.
    
    

RE:  Note 28.28   SOLANA::BROWN_RO 

>    I've met Robin Williams; he used to run at a track I used to run at
>    occasionally; he was quite nice, and a little spacy.

Robin Williams spacy!?!

Lord almighty!  JESUS!  Repeat after me... BABY... BABY...
COME OUT YOU DEVIL ... YOU PRINCE OF DARKNESS!
SEND YOUR MONEY TO GAWD.... BUT USE THE ADDRESS YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN NOW!

NAN-NO, NAN-NO.

Here comes a green one... LOOK OUT!  DUCK!  

    How about Ted Turner?  He appears to have it all - is a world class
    sailor, an excellent business man, is fairly attractive, has lots of 
    money.
    
    re. 28.18
    Yes I can see how a lot of people would resent and dislike Clinton.
    However, I thought the purpose of this topic was to suggest men with
    so many admirable traits that its sickening :>  His publicised
    extramarital affair just doesn't fall into my list of admirable and 
    desirable traits. 
    
    /Kim
                     

    
    Robin Williams (funny, honest, human)
    Alan Alda (who isn't cheating on his wife, he's following his heart, 
    	right?)
    Richard Simmons (who loves you and thinks your beautiful at any weight)
    Patrick Stewart (a man of courage, integrity, and human vulnerability)
    
    
    

    Ted Turner - repulses me  (too much of a capitalist pig for my
                                socialist sensibilities)
    
    Daniel Day-Lewis - No edge?  Did you see him in Last of The Mohicans?
                       My Beautiful Laundrette?  The Unbearable Lightness
                       of being?
    
                       Too sensitive to be exciting?  - Maybe you don't
                       realize that finding men that good looking and
                       successful, who are *also* sensitive, is exciting
                       in itself!  :-)
    
    Bill Clinton -     I think he does have good qualities.  For example,
                       even though he is very successful, he still seems to
                       be warm, kind, friendly, and caring.  A lot of men
                       who achieve power don't.  And, he has a sense of
                       humor.   
    
                       (So, what if he made a mistake by cheating on his
                        wife.  Nobody's perfect.  If Hilary can forgive
                        him, so can I.)
    
    
    Personally, the two famous men I find most desirable are Bruce
    Springsteen and Bono, but I don't know if men, in general, resent them. 
    :-)
    
    
    Lorna
    
                    
     

    .28 Yha met Williams! Great! I woundered what kinda charater he might
    have been in school. Woundered if he drove his prof's wild with his
    never ending sentences? :) I am a fan of his, and like the fact that
    he could rattle on and on and on with no connection and no clue of
    where he will end in thoughts. Great man!

    Jody, Richard Simmons brings out the gag reflex in me; the channel
    changes the instant he appears on the screen. I saw him at the
    airport once, hiding on a staircase, I guess to avoid fans. A friend
    of mine saw him chowing down on junk food at a movie theater. I cant
    stand the screaming performance he puts on.
    
    Hey, this is LA, you see lotsa celebs, over time.
    
    
    
    

    re .34, have you ever seen Bruce Springsteen?
    
    BTW, I'm afraid Richard Simmons makes me gag, too.  There's something
    kinda creepy about him.
    
    Lorna
    

    How 'bout Norman Schwartzkoff, or Colin Powell??

    I was in a club watching Beausoliel, and I was told later that
    Springsteen was there; there are so many Springsteen lookalikes in this
    town, I wouldn't have known. My brother was at an early concert where
    Springsteen came down off the stage and was standing right next to him.
    My brother described him as small and muscular.
    
    

    Richard Simmons !
    
       Yep, I'm the same way.......he comes on the screen....it's instant
    channel clicker !!!   He's such a goober !
    

    I bumped into Richard Simmons in a Las Vegas record store in 1982(?).
    
    He's very effeminate in person, almost to the point of being campy.
    
    Loud, too.  My friend and I make a hasty retreat once he started up.

    The guy makes me want to barf.
    
    I would love to know what makes women go 'ga-ga' over him.
    
    Bubba

    Re .40: Which guy - Simmons? (He doesn't do much for me, but I suspect
    that one of the things his fans like about him is that he's
    [apparently] very accepting of _everybody_; this could be very
    compelling for a low-self-image type...)
    
    -b

Maybe it's the same thing that made the blue-hairs go ga-ga over Liberace.
He non-threatening, perhaps?  I once read that if you're planning to be
a sex symbol for pre-pubescent girls, you'd better not have chest hair --
they find *that* too threatening.

    Robin Williams left his wife for his child's nanny... 
    
    I think Patrick Swatze (sp), he's handsome, has a great bod, been
    happily married for many, many years.  He's sensitive, yet a bit rough
    and has always come off as very intelligent and witty during interviews...
    plus he's a great dancer!
    
    Chris
    
    
    

    re. last
    
    Well, leaving your wife for someone else isn't exactly the epitome of
    evil. 
    
    But now that you mention Patrick Swayze, he also seems pretty nice. 
    However, he's almost too good looking.
    
    
    kim
      

    Anyone for Kenneth Branagh?  Good looking, intelligent, Shakespearean,
    happily married to Emma Thompson.  His autobiography suggests that he
    might actually be as appealing as I find him.
    
    -dick

    I've always admired Thomas Edison
    
    Marc H.

 I don't "love to hate" any men because they epitomize manly perfection or
unattainable attributes. The men I dislike come by my enmity honestly; they are
generally jerks. :-)

    re .45, actually, it's Emma Thompson *I* find appealing.  If all women
    were like her, I might have a different lifestyle!  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    	I don't 'hate' anyone. I don't care for:
    
    Don King......Bob Arum....any of the clowns associated with promotion
    of boxing. They prey on people.
    
    Jesse Jackson......like an ant at a picnic. He's always around. I don't
    trust him, don't believe he's sincere, don't believe he has experienced
    much of anything other than other people fear of his mouth. Don't know
    if he's ever "accomplished" anything because he seems to be a the front
    of "many things."
    
    Larry Teal & his wife - Screwed thousands of people out of insurance
    money. Denied ever doing anything wrong...finally in jail.
    
    David Letterman - think he's an overrated egotistical a**.
    
    I could go on...

    Arthur Ashe!!

	Why?

    re: .51
    
    If you're asking "why" about Ashe, I've admired him for some time now
    because of his talent as an athlete, and also his dedication to
    breaking down barriers to young blacks who want to get into sports like
    tennis.
    
    He had to deal with a lot of medical hardships, and as he did with his
    battle against AIDS, he handled them all with great dignity.  It's not
    easy for an athlete to deal with the frailty of his body.
    
    jt

    I guess I should add that I agree with a couple of others here that I
    don't "hate" or envy men who I believe embody "manliness."  If someone
    were, for some unknown reason, compare me favorably to a man like Ashe,
    I'd be flattered without bound.
    
    But just because a man is lauded by the press and public alike, doesn't
    mean I have to feel that my life is lessened by not being as "good" as
    him.

	Thanks! I guess it was the title string that had me asking. I do agree
with you 100% btw. 


Glen

    Curiosity got the better of me so last night I watched Oprah interview
    Michael Jackson...  (Barbara Walters must have had kittens over Oprah's
    coup)

    Now, I'm not what you would call a fan of Michael Jackson, however, I came
    away feeling that this young man was very likeable.  He preaches Love and
    practices it by opening his home to cancer stricken children and 
    entertaining them.  What a wonderful way of sharing one's Time, Talent,
    and Treasure!  Of course, Oprah had to ask if he was a virgin and then 
    tried to tactfully inquire as to his sexual preference (to me, Michael is
    likeable but Oprah is NOT).  

    I did get this feeling that Michael Jackson was near death.  Maybe it
    was because he looked so sickly pale that he would soon kick-the-bucket,
    I just don't know...  Anyway, there's a lot of good in this guy!

    28.44
    
    I guess differant strokes for differant folks... 
    
    I don't mind the leaving part, that happens.  Leaving for someone
    else... may hurt the ego a bit.  Leaving with the woman who I trusted
    to care for my children, could say I would be a bit peeved....
    
    

    RE: .55
    
    I liked him with the Jackson 5.
    
    Marc H.

    
     I like Michael Jackson too.   Both with the J-5 years ago, and now.
    He reached his peak in the early eighties with "Thiller". IMHO.
    
       And he has the courage to be himself....while millions look on.
    

    >   And he has the courage to be himself....while millions look on.
    
    To be himself?  I look at him, and see someone what can't seem to
    decide whether he wants to be an adult or a child, black or white,
    male or female -- yes, he can sing, but beyond that, I see confusion.
    
    Not my cup of meat, but I wish him the best...

    I think that Jon Bob Jovi is a good musician. Apart from being
    incredibly good-looking, he is also a brill musician
    
    I am probably just biased because I am into that sort of music!
    
    Lorraine

    Re 28.11, Alfred Thompson.
    
    I have been asked, by a read only noter, to say that she thinks that
    Alfred Thompson should be the man that other men love to hate.  :-)
    
    She went on to say, "This guy has always seemed so damn sweet to me. 
    He unabashedly loves his wife and says so without reservation and
    without gushing."
    
    Well, Alfred, it seems you have a fan!!  :-)
    
    Lorna
     

	RE: .61 <<<< blush >>>>
    
    		Alfred

Come on Alfred - I hate a man who blushes - we all know you love it.

- Paul

P.S. That makes 2 now doesn't it Alfred ?

>P.S. That makes 2 now doesn't it Alfred ?

	No, 4, my mother in law and her mother are fans as well. :-)

			Alfred

            <<< Note 28.64 by CVG::THOMPSON "Radical Centralist" >>>

>	No, 4, my mother in law and her mother are fans as well. :-)

Gosh, you are a lucky man.  I've had a mother-in-law, but never a 
grandmother-in-law.

    I saw the base noters clue to where he got this phrase! Its from Rocky
    and Bullwinkle! And the man.... Its Boris Badenoff!:)
    
    

No - as much as a Rocky and Bullwinkle fan that I am, there is no connection
to R&B in my note.  The phrase came from Diane White's column.

				Steve

    But everyone knows that Boris is the man that is most hated!:) Just ask
    R&B!:) Even Natasha say."Boris, darling, you know how to be most
    rottenest guy!" 
    
    BHA! HAA! Wait till mooose and quirl walk into this trap! ;-)

    George, you're a riot!  We really must do the coffee thing someday.

    Hey! You gotta have a sence of humor to be blessed with a green lizards
    tail.:)