Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    
    > what do you say
    
     " Son, I love you, your my only son, the only one to carry on my name,
    so you G*d**mn better learn to like girls, and quick :-)
    
    David  p.s. My son is six, and heterosexual, I would not be happy if he
               was gay, this is the blunt truth.
    

    
    What do I do? 	Nothing. What is there to do?
    What do I say?      Something like, "no problem, thanks
    			for letting me know. And if you need someone
    			to talk to, I'm always here. Just please be
    			patient with me though because this is a bit
    			new to me and I may well put my foot in 
    			my mouth at times. And of course I still love you."
    What are my hopes?	Same as they ever were
    What are my fears?	Same as they ever were. 
    
    
						Regards Ren,
    						
    							Hank
    
    ps. in general...yeah, I'm back...for a while. I still don't
    	think this notesfile works for men, and I still think the
    	moderation is lacking, but these are tough times and I think
    	I'll try it one more time. 

>    David  p.s. My son is six, and heterosexual, I would not be happy if he
>               was gay, this is the blunt truth.
    
    What a coincidence: I'm not happy that you're hetero!
    
    As for the question, I'm still in shock at discovering I have a
    17-year-old son.  This means that the combination of condom and
    contraceptive foam really _is_ unreliable...
    
    Ray

    
    	Ray, having met you in person, I'd doubt if you really knew what to
    do with a condom 17 years ago besides blow it up into a balloon.
    
    Either that, or you don't look your age.

    
    
    > I'm not happy that you're a hetero
    
     Ray,
    
     As I fight back the urge to fire back, let me do something unusual
    for a change, Ray it's not easy to admit that I would be unhappy with
    my son being a homosexual.. I am being honest when I say this and such
    honesty is discouraged by personal attacks such as yours.
    
    Lighten up a bit please,
    David

    Like most pale skinny guys, I don't look my age.
    
    Which is not to say that I never blew a condom up into a balloon.  It
    was part of our terrorist campaign against our 10th grade English
    teacher, along with flaming paper airplanes and libelous limericks.
    
    Ray the 33-year-old

    Hey, where'd -b's reply go?  It was actually germane.
    
    David, sorry, but your tone sure made it _sound_ like it was easy for
    you to admit...
    
    Ray

    
    -1 Ray,
    
     Thank you.. I will try and tone it down :-)
    
    David

    IF I had a 17 year old son, I'd go back and check Samm's 
    birth certificate and medical records, then I'd ask her
    mother about it.
    
    Oh, as to a searious reply to the original question, Hmmm,
    I'm still thinking about it....  but, like reality, it'll
    take a while.
    
    ed

    OK, would you rather that your son be a muscular, deep-voiced,
    plaid-shirt-and-heavy-boot-wearing outdoorsman (who happened to be
    gay), or a slight, soft-voiced, pastel-wearing fashion designer (who
    happened to be straight)? [-- from "Stereotypes Digest," the page right
    after the "Humor in Paisley" section]

    As for the "only one to carry on my name" bit - being gay doesn't, that
    I've heard, render one incapable of fathering children (though it may
    make one less interested in the usual process). And, of course, a
    person's being straight is no guarantee at all that s/he'll choose to
    have any kids, anyway. [The traditional method of _ensuring_ that your
    name is passed on is to adopt a likely young person and leave them all
    your money on the condition that they take your name. I always thought
    it sounded like an admirable solution - assuming the adoptee didn't
    mind trading in, say, "Smith" for "Snigglewort-Chesterfield III".]

    -b (aka "Germaine Deer")

    ...and on the more sensitive side...
    
    Back when I was thinking about considering whether I ought to
    contemplate the chance of having children someday, it occurred to me
    that, irony being one of the fundamental rules of life, a daughter of
    mine would undoubtedly become a fashion plate, interested only in her
    popularity among the "in" kids in school, uninterested in reading, and
    - from my point of view - a dweller in a completely different
    space-time continuum. The very idea gave me the cold sweats, though I
    realized that, if it happened, I would owe it to her to give her as
    much love and support as my parents gave me, no matter how much I
    disagreed with her choice of lifestyle. 
    
    Compared to that, I'd be _delighted_ if she were gay.
    
    [BTW, I gather that this solid love-and-support bit is a prime
    requisite for parenthood, and a darned useful one for aunt- or
    uncle-hood, grandparenthood, or any other child-related-hood, as kids
    will never turn out the way you expect. In fact, isn't that supposed to
    be the fun part? "Here's a baby person - guess how it'll turn out!
    Surprise!!!"]
    
    -b

    
    
    853.11 -B
    
    
      What makes a person gay?
    
    David
    

    Re .13: If you mean my definition of it: it's whether s/he is sexually
    attracted to people of her/his own sex or not.
    
    If you mean what influences a person's sexual preferences: I have no
    idea.
    
    -b

>      What makes a person gay?
    
    Are you asking for a definition or an origin?  Def: The person finds
    members of the same sex sexually attractive.  Orig: Don't know.
    
    As far as -b's reply goes, there really are plenty of gay fathers
    around (even without artificial insemination, it's not that hard to
    fantasize your way through the act at least once), and you'll never
    find a burlier lookin' bunch of cowboys, bikers, and exercise freaks
    than down on Castro Street.
    
    Ray

    
    
     -1 -2
    
     What I meant was, what causes a man to be attracted to man? Dna?
    
    David

>     What I meant was, what causes a man to be attracted to man? Dna?
    
    Like I say, don't know.  It sounds like it feels engrained, like me
    being attracted to women feels engrained.  But I have no idea how
    hetero or bi sexuality gets engrained either.  Presumably the usual
    vague stew of genetics and environment...
    
    Ray

How can you tell if a six-year-old is heterosexual?

> How can you tell if a six-year-old is heterosexual?
    
    What a straight line...
    
    Ray

    
    
    > how can you tell if a six-year-old is heterosexual?
    
      Jokingly:: He likes John Wayne movies:-)
      Seriously: He talks about wanting toget married and have kids
    someday. Obviously this can change and there is no absolute.
    
    David

    At six years of age, a boy probably doesn't know whether he is hetero
    or not, and I seriously don't believe that you can tell by observation.
    Most six-year-old boys will respond with "Bleah!" or something similar
    if asked to approach a girl for any purpose resembling affection.
    
    My brothers-in-law are cases in point.  One, aged 38, is straight and
    married with a child; the other, aged 37, is gay and living with his
    partner.  Same upbringing in the same city and school systems, through
    high school.  The straight one didn't do girls at all, all the way
    through school; the gay one had many girl friends (not girlfriends).
    
    As for .0's query, if my son (who is now 23) had turned up gay at 17,
    it would have made no difference whatever in how I felt about him or
    the way I tried to relate to him.  By that time I had long since given
    up living in the "Ozzie and Harriet" fantasy and had come to terms with
    the real world in which some people are hetero and some aren't.
    
    -dick

    If I had a 17 yr. old son, and I found out he was gay, it wouldn't
    bother me at all.  The only thing that would bother me would be that I
    would worry about AIDS, and I would worry about him being discriminated
    against by straight people and possibly beat-up by straight men.  Other
    than those fears, though, I would have no problem with it.
    
    Lorna
    

    	For my younger daughter I am more worried whether she will make it
    to 14 without becoming pregnant.

RE:  Note 853.0   ASDG::FOSTER 

>    Scenario: you've just found out that your son, aged 17, is gay.
>    What do you do? What do you say? What are your hopes? What are your
>    fears?
     
It could read...

    Scenario: you've just found out that your son, aged 17, is a serial killer.
    What do you do? What do you say? What are your hopes? What are your
    fears?

Until one faces it, he can't know.  I can tell you how I feel about it, but not
how I'll react until that button was really pushed.

Re: .23

Lorna, you say you would "worry about AIDS"; why would his being gay make
a difference there?  Just ask Magic Johnson....  Indeed, the spread of AIDS
is slowing among gays and accellerating among hets.

			Steve

.0> What do you do? What do you say? What are your hopes? What are your
.0> fears?
    
    First thing I do is find out if his boyfriend has an older sister for me.

.0> What do you do? What do you say? What are your hopes? What are your
.0> fears?
    
   > First thing I do is find out if his boyfriend has an older sister for me.

	Find out if she's a glutton for punishment, too, Mike.  Might
	as well get all this stuff out of the way right off the bat.


	Sincerely yours,
	Di

    What you're saying if you are truly incapable of accepting that your
    son or daughter is gay, is that you love them IF.. if they are 
    heterosexual.
    I can't put a condition like that on my love for my boy.  It would hurt
    us both too much.  He told me he was gay once, but my wife and I
    believe he was just trying to get a rise out of us.  Lots of fun when
    you're 13.
    		Tom

>Lorna, you say you would "worry about AIDS"; why would his being gay make
>a difference there?  Just ask Magic Johnson....  Indeed, the spread of AIDS
>is slowing among gays and accellerating among hets.

 Because his chance of getting AIDS is still higher engaging in gay sex than
het sex. Despite the rate of change in the het population being higher.

    as an aisde....
    
    The Red Cross in its recent blood drives is getting a startling look at
    HIV in New England. Remember, one must be at least 17 to give blood.
    
    At Revere HS 50 kids who gave blood were found to be HIV positive.
    At another HS in the same area 26 were HIV positive.
    (might be reversed...I was kinda shocked)
    
    There are rumors about Nashua High and Pinkerton Academy in Derry, NH,
    but nothing substaniative...
    
    K

    50 out of how many?  26 out of how many?
    
    Can you document these numbers?
    
    					andrew

    By the way, what does this have to do with being gay?
    
    					andrew

    Re .29: Uh, who said they would only love their kid if s/he were
    straight? I heard someone say it would be a disappointment to him to
    learn his son was gay, but that doesn't imply (to me) that he would
    cease to love the kid. Heck, there are a few things I've done that have
    been bitter disappointments to my parents, but they continued to give
    me their full love and support anyway - in fact, often I was never made
    aware of their disappointment at all, learning about it only long after
    the fact...
    
    -b

Re: .31

Um, Ken, I suggest you verify this report with a call to ARC.  I've seen this
debunked as one of the newest urban legends; indeed, a similar tale was
told about Nashua High School not too long ago.    The ARC said it was
a complete fabrication.

Put this one up along side "Blue Star Acid".

			Steve

    
    Tom,
    
     > conditional love
    
     I can love my son as I punish him for innapropriate behavior,NO, I am
    not saying that being gay is innapropriate. I am personally bored with
    with the melodramitics of the gay community on this issue. I would
    still love my son if he were gay, I would be saddened by it. This is
    blunt honesty, please do not create a straw man with it.
    
    David

    re .26, Steve, it's because of what Mark says in .30.  Even though
    intellectually I know that anyone can get AIDS, the gay male population
    has been more ravaged by it than any other group has, so far, and if
    someone I loved (my son or anyone) was gay, I would worry more about
    them getting AIDS than I do about straight people getting AIDS.  This
    does not mean to imply, however, that I am not aware that AIDS is a
    danger to everyone.
    
    Lorna
    

    Question to the basenoter ... I have two daughters and could answer
    this (realistically) from the prospective of "What if your teenage
    daughter told you she was gay".  Any particular reason why you picked
    the male of the two species to ask this question?
    
    Had I had boys ... what I would say would only be speculation ...

    Bubba

    Bubba, it is my experience that the general populace reacts more
    negatively to male homosexuality than to female homosexuality.  It is
    less sinful to be a woman and gay than to be a man and gay.  This is, I
    think, a relic of the historical male dominance and the view that a gay
    male is somehow less of a *man*.
    
    -dick

    
    re .38,.39
    
    Yes, I think that's the best answer. But if anyone would like to
    rephrase the question to include daughters, feel free.
                                		

    "I find my (now 5 year old son) is gay when he is 17."
    
    Actually I think I would suspect it long before he was 17, but lets
    assume that it is news to me at the time.
    
    First I would assure him of my support and that my love for him would
    remain undiminished.  Whether he is straight or gay has no bearing on
    my love for him.
    
    I would feel somewhat alarmed because of the 'challenges' he would have
    to face in his life.  Mostly Society imposed challenges. 
    
    Hopefully I would have been able to maintain good enough communications
    through his teen years so that we would be able to talk honestly about
    about his feelings and the challenges he faces dealing with it.
    
    I would make it clear to him that a persons worth is not determined by
    sexual orientation.
    
    But mostly I would assure him of my continued love and support.
    
    Jeff

 re: .41

 I feel the same way. (Substituting daughter for son, of course.)

    Info came from a nurse who volunteers for the Red Cross. 
    
    I don't have exact number of total donors......Mass. stated in the
    Globe that someone in NE gets HIV every 6 minutes.
    
    Heaven forbid that anyone repeat anything that cannot be statistically
    backed up by a forum of experts on the subject with actual lab analysis
    reports in hand that have been verified by a reputable acct'g firm.
    
    Hey folks....why would anyone lie? Wouldn't it be better to cover up
    actual numbers so that the school district could say that they don't
    have any problem? Why would a Red Cross nurse lie? I heard the rumor
    about Nashua also, and they said that it was worse than the lie.
    
    So tell me the "truth" as you know it. Zero cases inn the puritan city
    of Nashua, NH? 1, 2, 3? 300? 3000?  These number don't just appear. 
    
    Ken 

    Why would anyone lie?  For the same reason other urban legends get
    spread -- the "lie," as you call it, if not entirely plausible, is at
    least feasible, and the story may very well be driven by fear.
    
    					andrew

    
    I don't think its that most people are lying Ken, they're just
    repeating false information that they heard from a semi-reliable but
    uncertified source.
    
    I've done it. It's embarrassing when you find out that, one, you
    believed it and, two, you propagated it further.
    
    So, usually when I hear something a little on the wild side, I call it
    a rumor until I know that SOMEONE in the public media space has done
    some research on it. If its a good story, it usually doesn't take long.
    Bottom line: if NO ONE can show you an article in a reputable newspaper
    or journal about the story, its probably not true.