Conference quark::mennotes-v1

 I always have a tough time believing such letters. 

 All of the really attractive women I've ever met have been deluged with
suitors of all shapes and sizes. For the most part, we regular guys cannot
compete with glamour boys, which appears to be more in line with what
these "knockouts" seem to want. 

 I also think that beauty can be intimidating. "What the hell would she want
with me?" You naturally expect gorgeous women to be attracted only to 
exceptionally handsome (and often rich) guys. That we may actually psyche 
ourselves out of possible dates with such women appears to be possible, but
still feels improbable. Maybe if they noticed we existed they might find
we'd be more amenable to making the likely fruitless gambit.

    re .1, I agree. I think that when gorgeous people of either sex
    complain that they can't get anybody, what they really mean is that
    they can't get what they want.  
    
    Lorna
    

    But, _most_ of us can't get what we want; why should gorgeous people be
    any different?
    
    -b

    If she's putting in a personal column that she's beautiful, successful,
    etc, maybe the size of her ego is putting the men off ? Maybe her
    conversation just revolves around herself ?
    
    Could be if she relaxed a bit and let herself be the person underneath
    the outward looks and business success stories that the men might be
    more interested ?

    
    I agree with 738.1  Average men don't stand a chance to be even thought
    of once let alone twice by a "KNOCKOUT". It's been my experience that 
    the "knockouts" make it very plain that they were annoyed and did not 
    even want to be seen with an average or below average man. 
    
    I realize that this is not true to form for all "KNOCKOUTS" but it's 
    the old saying that the few spoil it for the many.
    
    Lenny

    I guess I must not be average because my wife is a knockout and
    I was thought of. :-)
    
    			Alfred

    Re. .6
    Can we see a picture???
    

    Men and women alike shouldn't feel as though they can't ask 
    a person out because they feel intimidated.  The most the
    person can say is no.  Then who cares after that.  THEIR LOSS!
    
    ...Except for the time I was 16 and asked a cute guy to rollerskate
    with me and he just laughed and skated away.  What a loser!  People
    like that only make themselves look bad.
    
    b

    If you're gonna be rejected it might as well be by the best.  You can
    take it less personally.
    
    :-)
    

    I took the initiative with the guy I was dating.  Absolute
    drooler!  I went up to him in the gym and said, "So, are we 
    girlfriend or boyfriend or what?" (well, almost like that)
    
    Lo and behold we have been together almost 10 wonderful years now. 
    And happily married for 9.
    
    Brenda
    

    RE: .0
    
    any woman that has not dated for 10 years is 
    not in a position to know how men spend their time
    and is only revealing her own inadequacy in a letter 
    to Ann Landers ... hardly a "knockout"
    

      I think that there might be a problem that is being overlooked ! One
    thing that I have come to find is that people who are knockouts and 
    have been most of their life, haven't had to develope their 
    personality.  I'm not saying that they all haven't, but why should
    if everyone they meet is like a dog in heat.  They don't need to build
    on the relationship because their looks in a lot of cases do the
    talking for them.  
      Two, what I have heard from people is that they don't get asked out 
    because people don't think that they would go out with em.
    
      Just my thoughts,
    
    Jeff

    The nicest woman I ever dated was an absolute "knockout" and I'm sorry
    to this day that I let her go.

    I have to get to know a woman some before I am interested in asking her
    out.  No matter how attractive I find her, I'm not going to ask a woman
    out that I see on the streets or in the hall unless I know a little bit
    more about her than her name.
    
    Rich

    My neice is by any standard a physical knockout.  Beautiful face,
    stunning figure, nice hair...  She is also a childish, spoiled,
    snobbish pain in the butt.  She just can't seem to find a nice guy.
    
    Little wonder.
    
    Marv
    

    The major problem I've had with "knockouts" is that they are so selfish
    and immature. They don't value a relationship because they think they
    are easy to exchange if there's a problem. They don't realize that true
    love is exceedingly rare. 

The biggest problem I've had with knockouts is when they leave a burr on the
electrical box that catches the insulation of the Romex I'm running through
the wall cavities ...

Oops, I thought this was HOME_WORK...

  The definition of a knockout, according to the American Heritage 
Dictionary, is "one that is very impressive or attractive."  I'm 
curious  about what other  noters would call a knockout.  Isn't
everyones perception  of a knockout somewhat different.  Isn't it
simply a high degree of attraction  both physically and mentally
towards another person.  

  In my opinion, if a woman has a great body, but has a lousy idolatrous
perception of herself, she's no knockout!  I would rather have a date with
a woman who is fun to be with (and at least neat and descent looking) than
to have many dates with a so-called knockout!   

 Carl S.

    
    I'm curious too.  What's a knockout?  In fact, even the word gives me
    the shivers.  Makes me feel they're unapproachable.  I even have a
    stereotype all set up in my mind for VERY attractive people.  It
    involves something like "they wouldn't give me the time of day, they're
    not interested, they're probably kind of self-centered.....".  If many
    people have this stereotype then maybe they *do* have trouble getting
    dates!
    
    -Jody

    What's a knockout?
    
    Someone who consistently shows compassion and caring.
    Someone who consistently gives people the benefit of the doubt
    Someone who consistently uses strong reasoning accompanied by gentle
    words.

    
    oooh!  I like it!  That's not the definition I had previously given it,
    but i like it better than the old one (for potentially obvious
    reasons....;)
    
    -Jody

    re .21, nice, but it won't get a woman on the cover of Cosmo.
    
    Lorna
    

I have consistently found that the women *I* consider "knockouts", would
never be considered for the Cosmo cover.  I don't know whose standards of
pulchritude are used for such honors, but they certainly aren't mine.

				Steve

    re .21
    
    Herb,
    That was wonderful.  Thank you.
    
    Karen

    
    self-assuredness
    

  Did anyone ever meet that person whos smile just brought warmth to
your heart?  The cute winkle in her nose or glimmer in her eyes.  The
way she laughs or moves her hands while shes talking.  Just a pure state
of euphoria just from a nonchalant glance.  Not just from her physical
qualities, but from the way she interacts with yourself and others in
an appropriate and appealing manner.  That's what I would call a Knockout...

 Carl 

    Carl said it right.
    
    A knockout is someone (not necessary dropdead gorgeous) who, when
    they walk into a room, gives the air of self confidence, intelligence,
    and a little of the girl next door look all bundled in one package.
    
    It's not how you look, but how you project yourself.  If you have a
    big nose, let's say, don't walk with your head down.  Walk straight
    and proud.  That projects confidence, which ATTRACTS people.
    
    OK, I'm babbling.
    
    Brenda

    
     Brenda,
    
      You are not in the least babbling.  Very well put also!  By the way,
    how did you know I had a big nose ;*)...
    
                          Carl
    
                             

    did you know that a nose is one of the very few parts of the anatomy
    that continues growing throughout life?

    My knockout is a girl I see when going home from work (especially in
    the summer). One look and I turn into gel. Man ohhhh man if I only 
    had the guts. But i think my girlfriend is also a knockout. But she was
    my sisters friend which made things a whole lot easier.

    re .31, but if you had the guts you'd leave your girlfriend, and go out
    with this other woman?  Guess your girlfriend doesn't work at DEC, huh? 
    (If people only knew...how sometimes their happiness hangs by a threat,
    dependent upon such things as a man's guts to ask out a better looking
    woman!!!)
    
    Lorna
    

    re:  .31
    
    "hangs by a threat"
    
    I like that, Lorna.  - Vick  :^)

    I've been told that I'm attractive and I get along very well with men. 
    However, I've also been told that based on their past experiences with
    attractive women they would rather take a woman who was'nt as
    desireable (sp) rather than risk a possible relationship with someone
    who may leave them for someone else.
    
    I find this very frustrating as I feel many times I've not been given a
    chance to participate in a potential relationship because of someones
    bad experiences or fears.
    
    el

    re-.1
    I have dated some very attractive women including a couple of models.
    My experience has been that there is lots of competion which tends to
    make all but the most self confident of men nervous. How the woman
    handles this can make a world of difference if she really likes the man
    she should try and send as clear a message as possible. One woman I
    dated was 100% knockout that turned heads everywhere she went but
    she knew I was somewhat nervous about all the guys asking her out,to
    dance.etc. How she delt with it was whenever a guy looked at her she
    would give me a hug to show she was with me and quite happy about it.
    If guys asked her to dance she would say "you need to ask my lover
    first " and look my way and I would often say ok. She was also quick
    to leave them standing on the floor if they forgot she had a date.
    This might sound like she was being subservant to me but I honestly
    believe that she felt my uneasyness and did what she could to put me
    at ease. FWIW- I'm not the jelous or insecure type but just a seed
    of either can grow very fast given the right conditions.
    
    The flip side of this is another woman in my past  who was also very
    good looking and very much enjoyed the attention all the guys would
    give her. Even though she and I were together I always had the feeling
    that I was Mr. Right Now -vs- Mr. Right and My role was shopping
    companion while she looked for someone better. This in the end turned
    out to be true too bad I really liked her.
    
    It takes alot of risk on both parts to get a relationship started
    but that story never changes wether the players are both 10's or
    just average. Being beautiful is just another variable that can be
    plus or big minus depending on how it is used in the relationship.
    
    -j (still looking for that woman whos favorite game is lets build
    a relationship)
    
    

     My reaction to her claim that she hadn't had a date in 10 years,
     despite being a "knockout", was, "Wow, you mean every man she asked
     to go out turned her down!"....
    
     Dennis