Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    	Straight talk....no garbage. Even my eight year old boy used a
    funny term a couple of weeks ago. Our new puppy and he were wrestling
    in the living room when the pup pounced on my son. He yelled " OH My 
    nuts!" I almost fell over in hysterics laughing at the way he said it.
    Both of his sisters (16/12) covered their mouths and laughed too, so
    did mom.....
    
    	My daughters and my wife have talked on numerous occasions, both of
    my daughters have talked to me when they want an answer to a question.
    Avoidance, lies, or talking around is unfair. Kids know when we try
    that stuff and they lose respect for us. If I don't know an answer, we
    go to the library and look it up. If I don't get the answer there, I
    call a doctor friend. 
    
    	We talk about VD, AIDS, reputations, respect and all of the
    important stuff that go along with the science and mechanics. We also
    discuss peer pressure and who lies and who tells the truth amongst
    their classmates and friends. 
    
    	I have confidence in their decisions. If they make a wrong one,
    they know I'll still love them and will help.
    
    Ken 

    Geeze!  Can't you guys find a "sex life notes file" or something?
    Why do ya always have to push this stuff anyway?
    
    /Greg

    Having 8 children of my own (that's right 8), I have had "that
    discussion" several times.  My approach is openness, honesty and
    clarity, without using vulgarity. Coupled with the comparative anatomy
    lesson and the mechanics of reproduction goes a tender discussion of
    love, marriage, our values and belief systems.  Add to this candor
    concerning the  blessing, obligations and consequences that accompany
    human sexuality, love and reproduction and my wife and I believe that
    our kids not only get the basic facts, but a lesson in morality, cause
    and effect and a positive outlook on the purposes of human sexuality.
    
    With all those kids around there has never been a question about the
    difference between boys and girls; someone somewhere in the house is
    usually in some state of undress.  
    
    
    Paul

    several?
    
    I would be surprised if you had in more than twice, one for the oldest
    kid of each gender. 

.2> Geeze!  Can't you guys find a "sex life notes file" or something?

We're not discussing sex between consenting adults ... we're disucssing
kids and sex ... when them, sex *life* is the denial thereof (via AIDS)
or the creation thereof (making babies).

.2> Why do ya always have to push this stuff anyway?

Because too damned many parents ... *don't*!  If *one* parent changes
his/her mind and sits down with Johnny or Mary as a result of this 
note ... and it saves either the creation of life or the denial of one,
then, I say "job well done".  That's why.

Clear?

Bubba

    RE:  .2
    
    >Geeze!  Can't you guys find a "sex life notes file" or something?
    >Why do ya always have to push this stuff anyway?"
    
    Greg,
    
    Gosh, you sound JUST like Archy Bunker.  I'm sorry - don't mean
    to make fun of you.  But it just sounds so funny when you put it that
    way.  -:) -:)
    
    Laura

    Bubba,  I think you missed Greg's ironic tone.  Or else you chose to
    ignore it.
    					- Vick

    mmm, it's beginning to look as if some may not have thought .2 was
    tongue in cheek.
    
    I interpreted it as a slam on the people (Wayne and Herb) who were
    wanting discussion of homo/hetero sexuality to cease.

    this is gettin' funnier and funnier
    
    Laura
    

    RE:  .8
    
    OH NO!!  I missed the irony!  I just can't bear it (moan, sniffle).
    
    This file is like slam dancing - you guys are either beating each other
    up or having some pretty weird fun.
    
    -;) -;) sorry.  Now back to your usual programming ->

    <misses the joke again>
    
    somehow, i don't think so

    Not missin any rungs, dude.  I got two X's and you got one full X and
    one partial (otherwise known as a Y).  So who's got the damaged goods,
    eh?  -;)

    i don't like your humor

    Sorry.  I was not being rude to you.  I replied to a reply that somehow
    disappeared on another look.  Maybe I need glasses.  Please excuse.
    
    Laura

    thankyou
    

 The full moon isn't until the 21st, but you'd never know it with strings
like this and another in a different file where someone acted like an
immature brat. 15 notes; 3 serious replies. What's happening? You guys
all goin' to holiday parties of something? :-) :-)

    phew, glad you said <in a different file>

 I tend not to be so subtle with you, Herb. :-)

    Yes, Herr Doctah ... I was looking forward to more serious replies.  I
    know that my "method" may not be the best nor work for all sizes,
    shapes and mentalities of kids ... I wanted to know how other parents
    handled it ... what the kid's reaction was ... etc ... aw ... this is
    an electronic cocktail party (or slam dancing) and it'll get back on
    track when another parent enters a reply.

    Genr'l Bubba

    my reply about being surprised if there were more than one of each
    gender was serious.
    Our older daughter learned most of what she knows from us in pretty
    open, frank dialogue (mostly with my wife, some with me too)
    
    I think our younger daughter learned rather more from her sister than
    from us.
    

    RE: .6 (Laura)
    
    > Gosh, you sound JUST like Archy Bunker.  
    
    	I did?!?!  Oh good.  Just the effect I was hoping for.   :-)
    
    RE: .8 (Herb)
    
    > I interpreted it as a slam on the people (Wayne and Herb) who were
    > wanting discussion of homo/hetero sexuality to cease.
    
    	Well I considered it more of a "mild provocation" than a "slam"
        but you are essentially correct.  
    
    
    RE: the topic
    
    	My folks never talked to me about sex.  Learned the basics from
    	my best friend (who learned everything from his older brother).
    	The rest I got from books.
    
    	I was a pretty responsible kid anyway so I don't think my second-
    	hand knowledge did me any harm, but it sure got my friend into trouble
    	He got his girlfriend pregnant while they were still teens.  They
    	got married though and have been together for about six years now.  
    	
    	Turned out OK in the end I guess.
    
        I don't have any kids right now, and I'm not sure whether I will
        want to have kids in the future, but there's been some good advice
    	entered here.
    
    /Greg

    Herr Beeler,
    
    	Yes, I feel that this is/was a worthy topic too. For what every it
    was worth, we gotta deal with it with the kiddo's. Mine might be
    alittle young, but learning from others might be a help to prepair
    little ol me for that day. Yes, the bee's go 'Buzz' birds 'tweet'?
    Or was that the bee's go, "Sign de papers ol man"!

    re .0:
    
    I can't speak about my children; I don't have children.  But I have
    watched several brothers and sisters-in-law educate their children
    about sex.  The thing that amazed me was that they didn't wait for the
    kids to ask, but volunteered information: both about the "technical"
    aspects (procreation, pregnancy, childbirth, and so on) and about the
    "emotional" aspects (love, infatuation, commitment, etc.).
    
    These kids strike me as knowledgeable and level-headed with regard
    to sex and love.
    
    					andrew

.23> The thing that amazed me was that they didn't wait for the
.23> kids to ask, but volunteered information...

GOOD POINT!  For those who respond... did you wait until asked or
did you volunteer?

I volunteered the information ... I remember well the "introduction"
that I was given to bring up the subject ... there was some TV
show about a teen who had fathered a child ... when the show was over
it had "opened the door" and the conversations started.

I was thinking about this today as I was watching the William Kennedy
Smith rape trial on TV .. boy ... would I have some questions to answer
if I had a 10 year old in the room !!

If you're sensitive about sex you'd best keep the kids away from CNN
during the telecast of that trial ... or ... you'll not have to explain
anything ... they're being quite explicit.

Bubba

    There is a great book for kids on the market called "Where do I Come
    From?"  This book talks about sex, what adults do and how babies are
    made.  The text is large and there are pictures.  I used this book when
    I talked to my son about sex.   There is a companion book about puberty
    and adolecense, "What's happening to my body?".  Both books are
    excellent.  The name of the authors escapes me.
    
    Karen

    RE: .25
    
    Agreed.  I've seen both of 'em and they're *very* good.  I highly
    recommend them.
    
    Bubba

    I think the Smith trial raises an excellent point: the incidence of
    date rape is very high and may be rising (so far as I know). The "facts
    of life" are the easy part of sex education. The hard part is informing
    your child that he/she should be properly assertive about consent,
    about birth control and disease prevention. _INFORMING_ is the wrong
    word: I really mean training, like in role-playing, assertiveness
    class, etc.
    
    I have three step-daughters, all teenagers, one already at, two on the
    verge of the age of sexual activity. For reasons catalogued at great
    length in other topics of this conference, I don't have a role in their
    education. If I _did_ have responsibility for these girls, I would be
    teaching them how to communicate through their words, voice, and
    posture that anyone who f*cks with them without consent or without the
    proper precautions IS GOING TO REGRET IT VERY VERY MUCH.
    
    Maybe I'm loopy about this. Obviously there are crazed men out there
    who are not open to persuasion. Am I simply nuts to think that, if one
    of my step-daughters leaned forward with her hands on her hips and a
    deeply furrowed brow and said:
    
        "If you _touch_ me, then you will spend tomorrow in court being
         arraigned on a charge of RAPE, and you'll go to jail for YEARS!"
    
    that most, maybe even nearly ALL, men would back off? Maybe this is one
    of those many domains where my projecting my own personality is really
    stupid.

    re .23
    
    A good way to turn kids off is to answer questions they haven't asked.
    When kids want to know about anything, they will ask. Answer the
    questions as fully as possible monitoring carefully when their interest
    wanes. Info beyond that point is likely not going to have an impact,
    and might well discourage the kids from asking in the future.
    
    (am sure you understand that .23, but seems worth mentioning in any
    case)

    re .28:
    
    Yup, I understand that; more importantly, my brothers and
    sisters-in-law do, too.
    
    					andrew

    My comment in .28 
    
    <A good way to turn kids off is to answer questions they haven't asked.>
    
    was in response to .23 ...    
    <The thing that amazed me was that they didn't wait for the>
    <kids to ask, but volunteered information>
    
    which seems somewhat at odds with .29...
    <Yup, I understand that; more importantly, my brothers and
    <sisters-in-law do, too.

    While it's probably true that too much unasked-for information may turn
    kids off, I think it's good idea to let them know that they _can_ ask -
    and that there's something to ask about. It may never occur to some
    kids to ask their parents about such things if the parents don't hint
    that it's OK... It certainly never occurred to me, though I'm sure my
    folks would have been willing to discuss it if I had asked. (I looked
    things up in books instead, initiating a lifelong preference for
    looking things up over asking somebody.)
    
    -b

    <good idea to let them know>
    
    The best way to accomplish that -in my opinion- is to have the kind of
    home environment where questions get addressed honestly, frankly, and
    succintly.
    In those circumstances, i believe the kids will ask, they certainly did
    at our house.
    
    

    
    
    Please tell them in a manner that they can understand that
    having sex entails facing consequences!!!

    My mum made it sound really boring.
    
    I think all parents should avoid that.
    
    	Alice T.

My mother was good about answering my questions, and gave me a pretty
accurate overall story, but some of the answers were a little inaccurate
 -- she collapsed some of the details because she thought her version was 
more age appropriate. In particular, i remember something about the "man 
waving his magic wand". Pretty cute, and she  assumed that when I got older,
I'd ask more and get the next set of details. unfortunately, what happened
was that I realized that there was no such thing as a magic wand, and 
therefore my mother didn't know what she was talking about, so it seemed 
pointless to ask her more questions. 


Liz

    i have some trouble with the juxtapositon of 

    "a pretty accurate overall story" and "man waving his magic wand"
    

Herb,


The overall story was pretty true to the original.
The details left something to be desired.

Sorry you're having so much trouble,



Liz

    a magic wand is hardly a detail
    

    I believe honest and accuracy are extremely important in communicating
    with anybody particularly children.
    If children are too young to understand the concept of inserting a
    penis into a vagina -as many are, don't tell 'em. Don't tell 'em that
    the man waved his magic wand either.
    Leave it at something like -perhaps-
    the man put his seed into the egg in the woman, or whatever is age
    appropriate.
    

    >the man put his seed into the egg in the woman, or whatever is age
    >appropriate.
    
    I can just see the image a child would get from this.  I don't think
    it's much better than a magic wand.  I picture a sunflower seed being
    put into a chicken egg.  When we first talked to our kids about sex
    they were old enough to at least understand penises and vaginas,
    although before that we may have talked about babies growing in
    mothers' stomachs.
    					- Vick

    
    Sex is that dirty, rotten, disgusting thing that you save for the
    person you love. ;^).
    
    fred();

Good grief, Herb, Do you need to pick on every single noter that comes
along? And are there not enough noters around that you need to pick on
people's _parents_ too? My mother apparently thought she was doing the
right thing. With someone else, it might have worked out fine. With me,
it backfired a bit. In any case, I didn't mean to derail the entire
conversation.

    RE: .42

    You did not, in my estimation, "derail" the entire conversation.  When
    I discussed (in the base note) some of the language that *I* used it
    could have well included "the wan" stuff that you mentioned.  You're
    damned right, your mother did what she thought was right for you - it
    may have been or it may not have been - that's what being a parent is
    all about ... you do your best ... she did her best under the existing
    circumstances and what she thought was best for you.

    That's why we're discussing this ... to look at alternatives, what
    appears to work and what doesn't appear to work ... 

    Derail?   No, not in my estimation.

    Bubba

    The base note asked about how we discussed sex with our children --
    I answered with examples of my siblings and niblings, since I have no
    children of my own.
    
    A few of the other respondents talked about their experiences with
    their parents.  Now here, I can speak from personal experience.  
    This is what my parents told me about sex:
    
    
    
    
    That's it.  
    
    It was obviously not something to be talked about; it was shrouded in
    mystery and shame; it was unspeakable.  So I learned from hearsay, and
    skin magazines, and eventually from a book on pregnancy and birth.
    Not a method I would recommend.
    
    					andrew

    My parents told me exactly the same thing, Andrew.  The only time my
    father said anything remotely about sex was when I left for college...
    his last words were: "If you get pregnant, don't come back to this
    house!"
    
    FWIW, I think Herb's ideal family situation (mentioned a while back),
    wherein kids feel free to ask questions or discuss anything, and
    parents give honest, rational, caring answers is something all parents 
    would do well to strive for.  My house certainly wasn't like that...and 
    like others here, I learned the 'facts of life' (and sometimes the 
    *myths* of life) from an assortment of friends, books, etc.  

    re .40

    what i said was...
    "Leave it at something like -perhaps- the man put his seed into the egg
    in the woman, or whatever is age appropriate"
    
    I don't know whether its appropriate, i didn't say it was, so if you
    get some small benefit out of criticizing it you go right ahead. You
    ain't criticizing me.

    re .42
    
    If a parent is telling untruths wrt to sex education a parent is doing
    something inappropriate. You clearly seemed to be feeling that yourself.
    "It backfired a bit." That is a typical reaction to a kid who finds out
    what the parent said isn't accurate.
    If you didn't want somebody to point that out, you shouldn't have
    raised it in the first place.

    There is a program called LAMO (Learning About Myself and Others),
    which blends sex education and parental involvement.  I went to a few
    of these classes and they are geared for whatever grade level your
    child is in.  There are exercises in the class that require the
    parent(s) and the child to complete, i.e. name body parts, etc. 
    The purpose of the parental involvement is two-fold: 1) to give the
    child a secure feeling and 2)for the parent to add their own moral
    teaching to sex education.  In general, I have read that experts
    believe that morals/values are an intricate part of learning about 
    sexuality.
    
    I recommend the class.  
    
    Paul

    I don't remember the details of what my mother told me, i.e., how much
    she went into the mechanics (my father would never, ever, have talked
    to me about sex), but I do remember the event, the room it was in,
    where I was sitting, the event that precipitated it, etc.  And what I
    got out of it was that the act was fun and that you did it when you wanted
    to have babies.  Thus I determined that my parents had done it exactly
    three times.  Subsequently I had a fight with my next door neighbor 
    friend who insisted that his parents did it all the time and thought
    mine probably did too.
    						- Vick

    .48 Paul,
    
    	Are there such a class's in the New England areas? Via a HMO?  

    The first time I discussed sex with my parents was 3 months ago.  Don't
    remember how the conversation started, but mom made a comment that her
    mother never discussed sex with her.  I shot back, well my mother never
    discussed sex with me either.  She laughed and dad turned beet red.
    
    Karen

    	I don't think any of our three kids has ever been too confused, but
    having several kids in a family certainly helps.
    
    	My son was nine and my elder daughter six when we had my younger
    daughter, and at that age were bound to be curious about something that
    was having a major effect on their lives. That made it very easy to
    explain to them.
    
    	Later, when younger daughter was three, it was amusing to hear the
    older two explaining to the younger one why *this* was not a good time
    to try to pick the lock on the bedroom door and Mummy and Daddy would
    be out in a few minutes anyway.
    
    	My elder daughter has recently started studying
    biology/biochemistry at university, so for the past year or two our
    dinner conversations have been heavily into AIDS. My younger daughter
    is very proud of just having become a woman, and no longer demands that
    I help her wash her hair in the bath. My son currently works for DEC,
    so I had better not say any more in case he is reading this file ;-}
    
    	No time is too early (or too late) to talk about it, but forcing it
    doesn't help either. If the kids have a compelling interest, whether it
    is "why is your tummy bigger now" or "why can't I go into mummy and
    daddy's bedroom at the moment" or "exactly what are the conditions
    under which the AIDS virus can or can't survive" then that is the right
    time to talk about what they are interested in.
    
    	For my parents, after I had been away a year at university, and had
    been dating for six months a woman who has been my wife for over twenty
    years now, my mother said "I suppose it is too late to tell you anything 
    about sex"
    
    	My wife, at the age of 12, had a day of terrible panic before she
    could tell her mother that she thought she had some terrible disease.
    She swore that the same thing would never happen to her daughters.
    
    	Don't avoid good excuses to talk about sex, and if a good excuse
    doesn't turn up, then make one ;-)

    To answe the question about L.A.M.O Courses:
    
    Most I have known about were offered in schools in the evening.  They
    are not sponsored by the schools, but rather some community
    organization and use the schools' classrooms.  However, I bet your
    local school superintendent probably knows of the program.  I went to
    Westford, MA for my classes, but have heard about others in Northboro.  
    
    Hope this info helps.
    
    Paul
    

 My dad talked to me about sex when I was 14 or 15 (which is too late IMO).
I was mean; I played dumb and made him get explicit. It was pretty fun, except
the morality part of the discussion was pretty boring.

    .52 Thanks! I am gonna look. I need to do something about getting some
    smarts in child rearing. Being a single parent and all. Some great
    things I have noticed from being dad agian. And some things that I seem
    to see down the road that I don't know how to answer with any credince.
    
    I guess for some, its expected. For us others, its not. Hopefully I
    might gain that insight that will allow me to over come the short
    comings of the expected.

    
    
    I only remember having a very brief conversation about sex with my dad
    -- actually it was more like a lecture than a conversation.  I think I
    was about 15.  He made two statements, which are still all too clear in
    my mind.  He indicated that if I ever got a girl pregnant, I shouldn't
    bother to tell he and mom because I wouldn't be welcome in their home
    any more.  (If he only realized, at the time, how little he had to
    worry about that!!!! 8-) )  The other was that he would beat me if he
    ever caught me masturbating.  (I'm lucky to still be alive, I guess!)
    
    	GJD

    
    
    >ever caught me masterbating.
    
    Good point is, one cannot get AIDS for that! :-)
    

    I read about it and later did field research.
    
    My parents tried to get me to help teach my younger brother, but they
    were so horrified by my lies that they did it all themselves (with the
    iffy assistance of years' worth of "Playboy"s).
    
    Ray
    
    P.S. to ::RUAH -- It depends where your hand has been...

    
    I can't seem to remember my mum ever actually sitting me down and
    telling me about sex, but I know that I've never been afraid to ask her
    about anything, and have had many open discussions about it in the
    past.  I don't know whether it happens in the US, but here in the UK
    kids get a basic lesson in "where do babies come from?" when they're
    about eight/nine years old.  I remember sitting in the school hall
    watching a video, which showed "cartoons" (for want of a better word)
    of what goes on during the sex act, complete with sperm swimming
    towards egg, penetrating etc.  Then we had real live footage of
    childbirth (although they cut out the really gory bits!).
    
    We knew it all after that!
    
    Sam
    

    I was going to start a separate note, but here is as good a place as
    any.
    
    My children have sex/health education in school. My wife and I
    suppliment it with morality education and additional sex education as
    conditions (usually TV news, Smith trial et al) provide. AIDs is a
    topic that we have discussed many times, how you get it, how you don't
    get it etc. This is why I asked for a statistical anaylsis of the odds
    in the AIDs note (haven't seen it there yet ). This is info kids need
    to know. The odds/risk of contracting AIDs through promiscuis (sp) sex.
    I suspect that the odds are quite high (unprotected) and that is why
    you haven't seen any numbers. My guess; 7 partners each active for 5
    years, 1 year with each partner = 100% someone had it? This would be
    bad for promoting promiscuity as opposed to abstinence.
    
    
    Now for the real question: (the one I haven't explained because I don't
    know the answer, doesn't compute)
    
    
    When you meet someone you really love/care for, or want to marry, what
    do you do?
    	Present 'theory' says you would be having relations with a 90%
    effective condom. Now you want a monogomous realtionship, maybe children. 
    No more 'rubber'. What do you do? If >3 months, do you both get an HIV
    test? Take your chances (aka stupid)? What?
    
    Steve

    Re .61: Latest suggested procedure I've heard before starting
    unprotected sex: 
    
    a. Both have a blood test for HIV. (If either tests positive, sorry.)
    b. (Ideally) both refrain from sex completely for 6-9 months; or, have
    sex only with each other and only using condoms.
    c. Both have another blood test for HIV.
    
    If the tests are negative, and you have no reason to think either party
    was cheating, go for it. Not 100% guaranteed, but probably as good as
    you can hope for...
    
    -b

    With respect to the "morality" issue as a supplement to sex education:

    I'm sure that it's effect on children is as diverse and numerous as there
    are grains of sand in the desert ... but ... just gotta ask .....

    There's a lot of discussion about the morality side of sex between
    "kids" ("kid" is between 13 and 18).  Does anyone think that it
    *really* has that much effect on the kid?  To a lot of kids (from my
    perspective) morality is an "abstract" thing that you really can't
    identify with - it's not something that you can really feel ... but
    when some 16 year old stud has an erection ... that's reality and 
    I suspect that for the most part morality goes out the window.

    To me, when I was a youngin' ... "morality" was whatever my father
    said it was and I didn't question it ... it's very simple ... if daddy
    said it wasn't "right" then it wasn't right - no question about it.
    BUT ... when the time came ... I did "it" after about a nano-second of
    thought.

    Bubba
    
    PS:  Daddy, if you're reading this from your heavenly NotesTerminal,
         ...forgive me?

    	That doesn't match what I have seen. There is obviously an age
    below which children cannot understand a moral issue, and there is an
    age when they tend to become cynical.
    
    	Somewhere between the two they take decisions on what is "right"
    even if it may not agree with your idea. People marrying at the age of
    18 are often doing it because they believe it is "right"; people
    marrying at the age of 35 are often doing it because of tax advantages.
    
    	If you define morality as "doing what you believe is right" as
    opposed to "doing what you believe is pleasant or expedient" then there
    is probably a morality peak somewhere around typical university student
    age. Children are born animals, develop into idealists, and often die
    as jaded cynics.
    
    	Dave (old enough to come into the jaded cynic category).
    
    	Remember that Peking could not have had the whatsit square massacre
    without thousands of students going there to be massacred for
    democracy. How many were under 12 or over 27? Even if you think
    democracy is a bad thing you cannot deny that they were acting from
    morality rather than convenience or pleasure.

    I have a related question relating to younger children ....

    I have a one-year old daughter who finds the differences between Mom
    and Dad's bodies quite intriguing ...

    Did you or how long did you let kids see you nude? ...
    Did you or how long did you let them touch your penis? ...
    Did this vary for sons and daughters? ...
    Why the decisions? ....

    Thanks in advance,
    Greg
                


    .

.65> Did you or how long did you let kids see you nude? ...

I don't believe either of my two girls ever saw me nude ... however ...
I never gave it a second thought about letting them see me in my underwear.
Personally, I think that my wife would have come unglued had I appeared
before the girls ... naked.

.65> Did you or how long did you let them touch your penis? ...

The divorce would have come a lot sooner had I allowed this to happen. I
don't think that I would be pre-disposed to do this...irrespective.

.65> Did this vary for sons and daughters? ...

I would imagine that if I had a boy instead of girls I would have had
no reservations about nudity with him.

.65> Why the decisions? ....

I am a product of my environment:  Texas_dirt_farmer_Methodist...etc

Bubba

    
    my 11 year old has known for at least 3 years.
    
    he has seen all his aunts, uncles, parents, and
    grandparents nekkid, and so far it has been a
    nonissue.
    
    he has asked about human breeding and understands
    that it proceeds in a manner similar that of other
    mammals..
    
    once in a while he hears a new expression at school
    which he suspects is sexual in nature; he asks and
    gets an answer.. (what things kids will ask about !!). 
    

    My daughter is just six months, so I have plenty of time to plan the
    answers.  However, most of the previous replies refer to the clinical/
    mechanical aspects of the discussion.
    
    How have you interwoven the recreational aspects of sex with the clinical
    and morality discussion.
    
    Tom

Some responses in this string suggest addressing the clinical/technical
side of sex education, others add morality to their discussion. I feel 
it is important to separate reproduction from orgasms and morality from
love and marriage. I believe sex education should include all aspects of 
the act; procreation, protection, prevention, abortion, parenthood, etc.
In addition, the cultural and social aspects and the family environement
all become mixed together during the discussion.    

IMO, kids should be taught what the results are for specific actions.
I think we should explain the function and purpose of genitalia, to a son 
or daughter who is mature enough to understand and retain the information. 
Along with that, we should explain the result and responsibility of using 
that information. If not all aspects are covered, we may see the results
in the forms of children raising children, VD(s), rape, pornography, divorce,  
abortion, etc.

/Bob

    	My wife and I are fairly voracious readers, and between us cover
    almost every subject. We have always encouraged our kids to read
    anything that interested them, and have a few thousand books in the
    house, none of them hidden away.
    
    	In terms of sex, this includes romantic novels, de Sade in the
    original French (all my kids read French), girlie magazines, books
    with titles like "Logic and Sexual Morality", and since my wife studied
    biology as a subsidiary subject at university, also purely biological 
    science texts. When my elder daughter had to study a translation of Rabelais
    into modern French as part of her school work I was able to produce
    both the original medi�val French and a modern English translation.
    
    	I think I am really saying "don't hide your interests". If you are
    interested in sex then the odds are your kids will be too. (FWIW, my
    son did computer science at university, while my elder daughter is
    doing biology as her main subject - obviously interests are a
    sex-linked characteristic ;-).
    

    RE: a few notes back.
    
    Although I haven't completely explained intercourse to my 6 year old,
    he certainly knows what a penis is. He has one. He doesn't have a wee
    wee or a pee pee. He has called it a penis since he's been able to
    speak. His 3 year old sister,though, she has a bagina. Those "v" sounds
    take some practice.
    
    Both of my children know they grew inside my belly. They both know I
    gave birth to them be ceasarian delivery and they both know how babies
    are delivered vaginally. The male intervention has not been explained
    yet but I'll be sitting down with the 6 year old in a couple of years.
    
    If they learn this stuff young it won't be a surprise to them. It won't
    seem dirty. It'll just seem natural.
    
    Kate (AKA Mom) 

    Everything here is ideal.
    
    We have five children and never shirk from answering questions on sex.
    We read a lot and watch TV, and videos where these things are referred
    to in many different forms.
    
    All about sex was hidden from me as a child. I was kept in the dark for
    years. I learned most in the playground and on the street. If I asked
    any question pertaining to sex I was hushed up or sent out of the room
    to my own room.
    
    
    
    This should not and will not happen to my children.
    
    
    
    
    Martin.

    There was a show done by one of our local channels on last week.  This
    was one of the best documentaries I've seen.  They talked about STD's,
    all of them not just AIDS.  They also made some excellent comparisons
    between our culture and attitude towards sex and that of Denmark.  They
    showed the differences in education between the 2 countries, looked at
    reasons why Denmark has a much lower rate of STD's even though they are
    probably the most sexually permissive country in the world.  Denmark
    begins the sexual education of children in grade school and they leave
    nothing out.  Some of the movies they show their children were too
    explicit to be shown on TV, even though they were cartoon movies geared
    towards children.  Denmark pushes both men and women to carry condoms,
    and they even advertise condoms on taxi's.  
    
    They are going to be airing this show 3 more times in the next 2 weeks. 
    If anyone wants me to tape it for them, I would be more than happy too.
    
    Karen

    Re .73, and Denmark advertising and encouraging condom use: For some
    reason this made me think of that "Grey Poupon" mustard ad. Imagine a
    limo pulling up next to another one, and a white-tie-and-tails-clad
    fellow asking an evening-gowned lady, "Pardon me, would you have any
    Trojans?" "But of course," she answers graciously, handing a packet
    through the window while her companion looks on with a cool smile...
    
    

    RE: .73
    
    I agree, Karen, it was a really good show.  In fact, there is a
    flyer that Group Health (one of the sponsors) and the KING (the
    other sponsor) put out on it also.  If anyone would like a copy of of
    it, let me know and I'll get it to you.
    
    Shilah

    
    There was a list of books in the Boston Globe Magazine last
    week that cover the subject of discussing sex with children.