T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
659.1 | Reverse Sexual Harassment | MR4DEC::CIOFFI | | Fri Oct 11 1991 10:45 | 8 |
| I think the whole thing about sexual harassment is bogus. Especially
when you start talking about the Thomas situation. So what if he asked
a woman out and he showed up at her apartment unannounced. I would
welcome the opportunity. This is just an attempt by the women's
movement to control our behaviour. As men we should file a sexual
harassment complaint everytime a woman makes a comment to us that is
not directly work related.
|
659.2 | | DTIF::RUST | | Fri Oct 11 1991 11:03 | 37 |
| Re .1: Excuse me? Do you mean to say that you think that employees
should have no recourse if their employers tell them, "Sleep with me or
lose your job/that promotion/that high-profile new project"? When
employees who don't permit their bosses to fondle them at will suddenly
find themselves in a dead-end job or no job at all?
Verbal harrassment is, I'll agree, a much harder area to define, since
everyone's level of tolerance is different. I don't go along with the
"never compliment anyone" or "no personal remarks at all" theories,
mainly because it would make life at the office incredibly dull (and
probably wouldn't restrain the really nasty harrassers anyway);
however, if employees ask bosses (or other employees) to refrain from
certain types of comments, or to please not discuss pornographic movies
in their presence, I would hope these requests would be honored - and
that no employee should have to fear losing a job just for asking for a
little respect.
Unfortunately, interpersonal communication being what it is, it's all
too easy for both sides to feel misunderstood and oppressed. "But what
did I say???" cries the accused harrasser, who may honestly believe
s/he hasn't said anything that s/he wouldn't welcome if said back.
"And why didn't you tell me you didn't like it?"
"But how could I?" says the accuser. "My actions should have indicated
to you that I didn't like it, and I was afraid to say anything more
because I thought you might not give me that contract. Besides, you
should have known that was unprofessional behavior!"
Ideally, people _could_ speak up. Ideally, those to whom they speak
would not then harbor bad feelings towards them. Failing that, it would
appear that the courts will have to deal with it.
[Note: I have no idea where on my personal "harrassment severity index"
the Thomas situation lies, and I'm not trying to map it into any of the
above examples.]
-b
|
659.3 | Power games | YUPPY::DAVIESA | Passion and Direction | Fri Oct 11 1991 11:27 | 47 |
|
I don't know anything about the case to which you're referring,
but this comment struck me...
> 64% of men would not be offended if someone made a sexual approach to
>them in the work place, 64% of women said they WOULD be offended. Now as a
>man and a Digital employee I has been asked out and I was not offended in
>the least....
Is asking someone out necessarily a sexual approach?
It seems we're trying to differentiate between :-
a) "normal" social interaction between people
b) "getting to know someone better" - someone you happen to work with
c) sexual propositioning
I guess some would say that "normal" social interaction trivialises
women anyway - and that's a big issue that reaches beyond the
workplace.
Asking someone out surely isn't necessarily a problem - as long as
a NO is taken as a no and people's egos can handle that. After all,
many people "wedded to their jobs" only get to meet prospective
partners at work...
Sexual propositioning is in a different class, I would suggest, and is
offensive to all. Or are men seriously saying that a woman repeatedly
making sexually explicit comments and suggestions to them *honestly* would
not offend them?
>but what this seems to be saying is that women cannot take care
>of these situations and they need the help of Personell and/or the judicial
>system to make them 'equal' to men. That would seem to negate any
>empowerment.
Because of the overall unequal status of women in our society it is hard
to act from a position of power. This may need additional
reinforcement. I don't think this disempowers the individual at all,
but rather just puts some power behind her to bring her up (temporarily)
to an equal power level with the man (presumably?) who may be harassing her
.
'gail
|
659.4 | The rape of Clarence Thomas | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Fri Oct 11 1991 11:48 | 42 |
| The following note has been contributed by a member of our community
who wishes to remain anonymous. If you wish to contact the author by
mail, please send your message to QUARK::MODERATOR, specifying the
conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached unless you request otherwise.
I received this as a request for a separate topic, but as one had
already been created for this subject, I put it here.
Steve
By initial appearance, Clarence Thomas is a man who has
worked very hard to get to where he is today. It appears
that the allegations against him will destroy not only his
appointment to the bench, but most likely his career as well.
How can this happen? I have not heard that there was any
formal complaint lodged against Thomas back when the harrass-
ment allegedly took place. So why would this suddenly become
an issue? Perhaps these women are motivated by the fact that
they are immediately thrust into the limelight. Just look at
Donna Rice and Jessica Hahn. Perhaps there were some advances
made by Thomas, not harrassment in nature, but a genuine attempt
to show these women that he had a romantic interest in them.
I have seen it right here at Digital. There was a woman in my
group who fully enjoyed the men looking at her, flirting with her
and making comments about their desire to have sex with her. Then
the day came that a comment came from someone whom she did not
care to hear it from and the sexual harrassment charges were filed.
What can be done to stop these kind of allegations from destroying
men in the case where they are false? How can a man let a woman
know he is interested in her at the workplace without having the
fear that he will be brought to Personnel?
For the purpose of discussion and to avoid this turning into a
discussion of whether or not Clarence is guilty of harrassment,
let's assume that Thomas did have a romantic interest in these women,
but did not sexually harrass them.
|
659.6 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Oct 11 1991 11:59 | 31 |
| To introduce some facts into this debate:
Thomas was not merely accused of making "appreciative" remarks to Anita Hill
(currently a respected professor of law) when she worked for Thomas at the
EEOC; she has said that he repeatedly would discuss in front of her, in great
detail, the pornographic movies which he had recently seen. Thomas was the
head of the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) at the time; if Hill
had filed charges, they would have been filed with, you guessed it, the EEOC!
She apparently decided that preserving her job was more important at the time.
Hill has nothing to gain and everything to lose by going public with this
accusation. She had filed the complaint with the Senate committee over a month
ago but they basically ignored it. Hill is a conservative Republican and is
not in this for the publicity or because she wants to sabotage Thomas. She has
valid concerns about Thomas' character, which is apparently the only redeeming
attribute he supposedly has, according to his supporters. She is already being
hounded by the press and has received threatening phone calls.
The question should not be "how serious was the harassment", but "did it happen
or didn't it?" If it happened substantially as Hill charges, Thomas is not
fit for the Supreme Court.
I find it offensive to have Anita Hill likened to Jessica Hahn.
Sen. Warren Rudman has already stuck his foot firmly into his mouth by saying
that it was "just a conversation between a man and a woman".
Sexual harassment happens - often. Women are told to put up with it or lose
their jobs. I don't think this is right.
Steve
|
659.8 | She didn't initiate the complaint - they asked her | CLUSTA::BINNS | | Fri Oct 11 1991 12:43 | 37 |
| re .6
> She had filed the complaint with the Senate committee over a month
> ago but they basically ignored it
This implies she initiated the charge. In fact, she did not. She was
contacted by a member of Senator Metzenbaum's staff asking whether she
could confirm or deny rumors of sexual harassment of EEOC staff by
Thomas. Hill still not make the charge (I'm not sure of exactly what
she responded but I think she denied the general allegation). The next
day a Kennedy staffer called, apparently making the same rounds. She
again did not come forward with the charge. But the following day she
called the Metzenbaum staffer to make her charge. She refused to go
public, however, and therefore Senator Biden refused to make it public,
and the matter was handled privately among members of the committee.
They did not think it serious enough to pursue, at least under the
condition of anonynimity that she sought.
You can read her actions two ways: she got two calls on this and saw
her chance to lie to bring down Thomas, or she got two calls and
finally got up the courage to overcome her humiliation (past at his
hands, future as her reputation was sure to be attacked by his
defenders) and finally spoke out.
I incline toward the latter. It fits with common sense and what many
women can attest to -- they have to ignore this adolescent-style
behavior in men, even to the point of internalizing blame, because they
haven't really had a choice. It takes immense courage to spit in the
face of the elevator fondler, as one woman described in the Boston
Globe yesterday. The result of that, or of more bureaucratic
approaches, is too often loss of advancement, if not job.
And what could Hill possibly gain from this? She was secure, respected,
conservative -- and now her whole life is at risk. No wonder she kept
her mouth shut.
Kit
|
659.9 | ABUSES OF POWER VS HAVING FUN ? | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Fri Oct 11 1991 13:34 | 24 |
| I will not comment on the Thomas issue because we, the public, do not
know the facts. But let's do a few "What If" scenarios. Let's assume
that there was a certain unwelcome raunchiness in the dialogue between
these two adults. Did Hill feel threatened in her job tenure ? Or was
it the type of exchange that, had he been "cuter", would have been a
prelude to seduction ? How can we deal rationally with these type of
issues when they are so subjective in nature ?
Attempting to compare this to an "elevator fondler" is patently absurd.
However, the initial concern of the basenoter about how different men
and women are in terms of sexual bantering sensitivity is a very valid
one. The potential for unfairness is enormous. I flat don't see a woman
complaining about a man she is strongly attracted to. I do see her
complaining about comments by men she does not like.
Tattle tale behavior by girls when we were children was one of the
first indications that girls and boys are different or they are raised
different or both. Perhaps because of that I am extra careful in my
conversations with women at work. But one of the most exciting moments
in my life was when a woman co-worker looked me straight in the eye and
said: "You really turn me on". It happened 15 years ago and I remember
it as if it was yesterday.
I guess men and women are very different in this context and losing the
possibility of generating some excitement in the already bland, cubicle
oriented, impersonal work atmosphere we have is, sad. Really sad.
|
659.10 | | PENUTS::RHAYES | | Fri Oct 11 1991 15:13 | 47 |
|
The tone of <.1> unless I'm reading between the lines incorrectly
is full of anger and frustration at alot more than this issue.
>.1 ........................................... So what if he asked
> a woman out and he showed up at her apartment unannounced. I would
> welcome the opportunity. .......................................
I don't understand the last sentence but I think that the 'So what'
of the first has to be interpreted in perspective to the events.
Hill was frightened of Thomas, by his power, position, and his
advances at her. She had told him she was not interested in a non-work
relationship. She felt a threat to her position and future
employment. I have not read that Thomas made any actual threats
to Hill. My thoughts are that Thomas was functioning from the
unseeing/unthinking/denial position of a person in power. Did he
ignore her fear and persist on to harrass her or was he insensitive
to her fear and the effects of his aggression ?
Unfortunately I don't think we'll get an answer to this question.
I don't think there is an forum today especially for politicians,
for the discussion of personal growth and change. What would happen
if Thomas were to say point-blank, 'I remember these incidents. I did
say and do these things as Hill has stated and in the context of what
I have learned and heard over the last 10 years, I now believe that
my behavior was out of line and should be considered harrassment'.
My belief is that he would be judged on the events 10 years ago and
passed over irrelevant of the knowledge and experience he possesses
now. What mistakes can we as a people, condone in the past lives
of people seeking to represent us ?
Part of the problem here, I think, is that there seems to have been
a concerted effort by senators to hide this information. Which
suggests that the man is guilty of something...
>.4 I can think of a similar situation and it does cause all sorts
of mental confusion in defining how individuals should procede in
trying to form relationships especially at work but I think they're
like drips in a big pond. Maybe I'm wrong there. I think you've
illustrated an example of behavior such that Person A responds
very favorably to some questionable action by Person B but not to the
same action from Person C. I think it's easy to lose sight of the
fact that the behavior is questionable within the environment in
which it occurs and causes problems for all other individuals that
now have to deal with the same behavior from Persons B and C.
|
659.11 | What is there to fear ? | PENUTS::RHAYES | Raymond F. Hayes, Jr. DTN 275-3628 | Fri Oct 11 1991 16:20 | 33 |
|
From Friday's Boston Globe, Page 84
National Briefs
EX-WORKER KILLS BOSS, THREE OTHERS IN N.J.
Ridgwood, N.J. - A man fired from the post office for harassing
his female boss donned combat fatigues and a ninja-style
hood, armed himself with two submachine guns and a
samurai sword and then killed the woman and three other
people, authorities said yesterday.
.
.
When he gave up,Harris,35,was armed with the sword, two
submachine guns and a handful of grenades and was wearing
a paramilitary uniform, including combat boots, fatigues,
a bulletproof vest, a ninja-style black hood and a
gas mask, Fahy (Bergen County Prosecutor) said.(Reuters)
------------------------------------------------------------------
I feel that at some level, consciously or unconsciously, people
bring the horror of events like this into their collective
knowledge and act out of the fear that it engenders. Much more
so for women. I haven't recently read about any woman, disgruntled
or insane, being armed with hand grenades and submachine guns and
killing someone.
Ray
|
659.12 | | BSS::P_BADOVINAC | | Fri Oct 11 1991 16:33 | 19 |
| re: .11
I feel that at some level, consciously or unconsciously, people
bring the horror of events like this into their collective
knowledge and act out of the fear that it engenders. Much more
so for women. I haven't recently read about any woman, disgruntled
or insane, being armed with hand grenades and submachine guns and
killing someone.
Ray
Ray, I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying
that female managers live in fear of this type of reciprocal behavior? Are
you saying that women SHOULD arm themselves if they are harassed? Please
explain.
Patrick
|
659.13 | Further notes... | PENUTS::RHAYES | Raymond F. Hayes, Jr. DTN 275-3628 | Fri Oct 11 1991 17:52 | 18 |
|
What I was noting, was that I believe that this type of incident
fuels a fear of retaliation. Perhaps it isn't named as such but I
think it exists. I don't advocate armed conflict under any
circumstances.
I try not to use male/female tenses when noting
because most circumstances are applicable to all human interaction but
personal violence seems to be predominately male against female. My
own observation reading the paper today though lately kids seem be
getting it pretty badly too.
Hope I've clarified my noting...
Ray
|
659.14 | LET'S CLOSE RANKS, GUYS! | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Sat Oct 12 1991 18:27 | 10 |
| A few weeks ago a 15 year-old girl shot and killed a boy in the school
cafeteria because "he had called her names". This happened here in
Houston, where a few months ago a woman contracted a killer to murder
the mother of a cheerleader who had beat her daughter for that
position.
Wake up and smell the roses, Ray. Violence by women is not uncommon.
And we, men, don't need extra bad publicity from the likes of you.
|
659.15 | Close ranks? | OXNARD::HAYNES | National Coming Out Day - We are everywhere | Sun Oct 13 1991 17:03 | 23 |
| Close ranks against who, Bustamante-san?
Against my mother?
Against my sisters?
Against my lovers?
Against my wife?
I think not.
Men closing ranks against things like this is part of the problem.
Denying that such things happen, and are usually perpetrated by
MEN, is a large part of the problem. No not all men, and not only
men, but usually men. Why do you deny this? I am not a harasser,
I will fight harassers, if you would solve this problem pull your
head out of the sand and stand with me.
Yes - let's close ranks. Men and women against harassers and
harassment.
-- Charles
|
659.16 | | AIMHI::RAUH | Home of The Cruel Spa | Mon Oct 14 1991 13:16 | 15 |
| Charles,
I could not agree with you more! Sexual horrasment is never needed in a
tuff enough work place. But, what I think .14 is saying to us is that
if folks are doing such, stop. For we, men, are not looking good for
it. Even though we can count many times on both sets of hands and feet
the people we have known who climb their way to the top via the
"Hollywood Method". For those of you who are naieve of such, that is
sleeping your way to the top.
Both are deplorable, both cheet not only
yourselves, the company, and your co-workers. But cheet the nation
as a whole for it places people who are not capable of preforming a
task in a position that can ruin all of the above.
|
659.17 | two problems, two solutions | WAHOO::LEVESQUE | Let us prey... | Mon Oct 14 1991 13:17 | 4 |
| That's the kind of closing ranks that needs to occur to solve the problem of
harassment.
Men's problems will require a different solution.
|
659.18 | LOVERS AND | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Mon Oct 14 1991 16:17 | 12 |
| Re. .15
Charles,
I am happy to see that you have both lovers and wife. That should keep
you busy instead of attacking men. There are criminals who are men and
there are criminals who are women. Now, w.r.t. harrassment, the picture
is muddy. Women harrass men too, the difference is that we call it
"seductive behavior" rather than harrassment. The harrassment
associated with power and dependency (boss-employee) we all find
despicable regardless of the sex of the parties. I've also heard of
lesbians harrassing women so it can happen in many ways, see ?
|
659.19 | suspicious and gray | MR4DEC::CIOFFI | | Mon Oct 14 1991 16:36 | 11 |
| I am not a personal friend of either of these two people but I'm very
suspicious of a woman who seemed to have some kind of a relationship
with a man who then in turn just after the alleged incident took place
married some other women. Take it for what it's worth but it is awful
gray. Ten years after the fact, no witnesses. Let's be realistic.
This woman has already said she put her career before her person. I
thought that is was especially surprising when the panel of 4 which
were her friends could not make a decision about whether or not to
confirm him after all of the testimony. They obviously had some doubt
about her testimony and his (not to seem one sided).
|
659.20 | Out of left field | ESGWST::RDAVIS | Available Ferguson | Mon Oct 14 1991 16:54 | 11 |
| > <<< Note 659.18 by HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE >>>
...
> you busy instead of attacking men. There are criminals who are men and
> there are criminals who are women. Now, w.r.t. harrassment, the picture
I just re-read Charles's note and was relieved to find that my memory
wasn't failing. He asked that men and women join together against
sexual harassment instead of making it a "men vs. women" issue. Hard to
see how that's an attack on men.
Ray
|
659.21 | | OXNARD::HAYNES | Charles Haynes | Mon Oct 14 1991 17:12 | 29 |
| > I am happy to see that you have both lovers and wife.
I'm happy that makes you happy.
> That should keep you busy instead of attacking men.
Eh? Either you've got a REALLY bad case of "us versus them" or I missed your
point entirely.
> [lots of reasonable things about harassment deleted]
> so it can happen in many ways, see ?
Yes indeed. That was my point, and thus my question. When you said:
"LET'S CLOSE RANKS, GUYS!"
...
Wake up and smell the roses, Ray. Violence by women is not uncommon.
And we, men, don't need extra bad publicity from the likes of you.
I interpreted it as a rallying cry to men to support each other in the face of
harassment charges, in the name of male solidarity and against women.
Was I mistaken?
-- Charles
|
659.22 | SHOOTING FOR THE ENEMY! | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Mon Oct 14 1991 17:54 | 22 |
| RE. .21
Yes, you are still mistaken: #1: I was addressing violence, not
harassment. And so were you in your previous statement
#2: I am saying that it's time for men, as a genre, to close ranks
against unfair attacks by either men or women who confuse criminals with
a certain genre, because there are criminals of either sex.
#3: If you haven't realized that some strident feminists like Andrea
Dworkin are even saying (and writing!) that men should castrate
themselves and that all intercourse is rape, it's about time you wake
up and realize that we, as a genre, are under attack and that seeing a
male play into the "protector" role at this time is tantamount to
treason. Women don't need you to protect them, they are doing just
fine, thank you. I am married, have three daughters in college right
now and I can assure you that they will not take any s**t from anyone!
But that doesn't excuse militant women from the hatred they show
against men as a "class"! And whenever they find someone like you who
is so intent on syndicating men as an especially violent group, they
increase their hold on their extremist positions.
These are the same people who are for censorship, by the way.
|
659.23 | WE GO FURTHER BACK! | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Mon Oct 14 1991 18:04 | 4 |
| RE. .20
Ray,
Please read .13 & .14. Rgds.,
|
659.24 | | PENUTS::RHAYES | Raymond F. Hayes, Jr. DTN 275-3628 | Mon Oct 14 1991 19:10 | 38 |
|
>re: 659.14
>Wake up and smell the roses, Ray. Violence by women is not uncommon.
>And we, men, don't need extra bad publicity from the likes of you.
The autumn roses smell wonderful and the 'likes of me' enjoys
them. You're correct that violence by women is in the media
along with violence by men but when I look inside my own feelings
I don't find a feeling I can label 'fear of violence from women' or
'fear of violence from militant women' but many women I know
acknowledge 'fear of violence from men'. How can we, together as men
and partners with other men and women, change that and also see how
it has impacted the work environment around the issue of harassment?
A call to close ranks implies that this is some kind of battle with an
eventual winner and loser; a dualistic conflict between right and
wrong in which at this time you feel threatened. That is understandable
because I created a link between an act of violence and being male. I
intended this link only to raise discussion about this 'fear of
violence' not as a condemnation of men as a 'class' or as a link to
every man. Andrea Dworkin writes from her own experiences and the
experiences of many women. Her solution to bring about safety for
women is radical and not acceptable to me but she said alot of things
about pornography and harassment that make a great deal of sense.
Women do not need protection in the political arena. They have a
strong voice of their own, radical and moderate, but my guess is that
your daughters don't walk home alone at night and if they do because
you've taught them not to take any sh*t, I think you're the one who
needs to take a hard look at reality.
In retrospect, I think that the inclusion of the details of this
specific act of violence didn't stimulate the discussion I hoped
especially around the issue 'What mistakes can we as a people,
condone in the past lives of people seeking to represent us ?' from
a previous note and the question I raised above.
Ray Hayes
|
659.25 | | OXNARD::HAYNES | Charles Haynes | Mon Oct 14 1991 19:12 | 60 |
| > I am saying that it's time for men, as a genre, to close ranks against unfair
> attacks by either men or women who confuse criminals with a certain genre,
> because there are criminals of either sex.
This is known formally as a "straw man" argument, unless you are claiming that
all sexual harassment charges are, prima facie, unfair. I will be happy to
close ranks against unfair charges, I would expect to be joined by women in
this closing of ranks. Where then does your "c'mon guys" come from? I get the
feeling that you see women as "the enemy." I don't.
> If you haven't realized that some strident feminists like Andrea Dworkin are
> even saying (and writing!) that men should castrate themselves and that all
> intercourse is rape, it's about time you wake up
I've READ Dworkin. How about you? Have you learned what you know about her from
her detractors? For what it's worth I disagree with her, but because I feel
she is anti-sex, rather than because she is anti-men.
> and realize that we, as a genre,
Ugh. I can't take it any more. Why do you keep referring to men as a "genre?"
Men are a sex or, if you must, a gender, but not a genre unless you believe
that men are only painted or written about and not "real."
> [men] are under attack and that seeing a male play into the "protector" role
> at this time is tantamount to treason.
Oooh. I'm a traitor to my sex. Where have I heard THAT before?
> Women don't need you to protect them, they are doing just fine, thank you.
> I am married, have three daughters in college right now and I can assure you
> that they will not take any s**t from anyone!
I'm not "protecting" women, I'm standing up for fundamental truths that I
believe in and live by. I don't need your permission either.
> But that doesn't excuse militant women from the hatred they show against men
> as a "class"!
Big jump there. I missed it. Sounds like you have a particular axe to grind and
see every male-female interaction in terms of it. By the way, it's not just
militant *women* you sexist pig.
> And whenever they find someone like you who is so intent on syndicating men
> as an especially violent group, they increase their hold on their extremist
> positions.
That's OUR extremist posititions. Men ARE an especially violent group, it's one
of those "basic biological differences" that people try to use to justify
sexism. The self evident fact that there are also violent women in no way
refutes that basic fact. That doesn't mean that *I'm* necessarily violent, or
that *you* are, but in fact men as a sex are more violent than women. In fact
it's only been very recently that anyone saw any problem at all with that fact.
> These are the same people who are for censorship, by the way.
Dworkin is, but so what? I disagree with her.
-- Charles
|
659.26 | YOU LOST YOUR COOL, FELLAH! | HSOMAI::BUSTAMANTE | | Wed Oct 16 1991 20:08 | 14 |
| Re.: .25
Charles,
Four comments: 1) I don't recall calling you names and yet you do in an
argument where you jumped to illogical conclusions to justify your
anger.
2) Your "mea culpas" for the aggressiveness in the male sex make me
puke
3) Sorry if I misspelled "gender"
4) There's nothing you or I can do to solve the problem you perceive.
|
659.27 | | OXNARD::HAYNES | Charles Haynes | Thu Oct 17 1991 14:08 | 43 |
| > Title: YOU LOST YOUR COOL, FELLAH!
Eh? Are you playing some silly game? I do sometimes "lose my cool" I'm sorry if
you think that's unmanly. I care deeply about many things and many people and
get passionate in their defense.
> Four comments: 1) I don't recall calling you names and yet you do in an
> argument where you jumped to illogical conclusions to justify your
> anger.
Show me where I called you names. Are you talking about my line "By the way,
it's not just militant *women* you sexist pig."? If so, I suggest you take up
remedial irony.
Show me where my conclusions are illogical. Saying so doesn't make it so.
> 2) Your "mea culpas" for the aggressiveness in the male sex make me puke
Use a bucket. I am not guilty of causing the agressiveness of males (look up
"mea culpa") you seem to want to deny that men ARE agressive, more agressive
in general than women.
> 3) Sorry if I misspelled "gender"
You did. [Subtle jokes on the usage of the subjunctive are probably lost on this
crowd...]
> 4) There's nothing you or I can do to solve the problem you perceive.
What problem do you think I percieve? I have NO evidence you understand what
I'm saying, much less evidence you might have a "solution." The only problem
I see here is that you seem to want to get "men as a class" to close ranks
against "agressive/militant women." You are trying to derail an argument about
sexual harassment into a diatribe against man haters. That dog don't hunt.
Sexual harassment DOES exist, it's depressingly common, and it's usually by men
against women. Those are FACTS man, we don't have to like them (I don't) we
shouldn't see them as an attack on "men as a class" (I don't) and I, at least,
view those facts as a call to action by MEN to recognize the scope of the
problem and to join in helping solve it.
Denying that the problem exists in no way helps solve it.
-- Charles
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659.28 | Dealing with Sexual Harassment | WMOIS::REINKE_B | all I need is the air.... | Thu Oct 17 1991 15:19 | 370 |
| Copied with permission
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Note 1636.1 Sexual Harassment: How To Defend Yourself 1 of 1
32FAR::LERVIN "Roots & Wings" 360 lines 17-OCT-1991 13:04
-< Dealing with Sexual Harassment, by Mary P. Rowe >-
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I suggest that every person print this off and keep it on hand.
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Dealing with Sexual Harassment
by Mary P. Rowe
Reprinted w/o permission from Harvard Business Review
Reprint #81339
Mary P. Rowe, a labor economist, is special assistant to the president of
the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Since 1973, she has worked as a
mediator with hundreds of cases from MIT and from other universities and
corporations.
As the recent attention in the press and on television attests, managers
are encountering sexual harassment problems more and more frequently.
Although by now many corporations have investigated the legal side of these
issues and have adopted appropriate policies, reaching an easy resolution
in such cases is difficult for the following reasons:
o People cannot agree about how to define the problem. In sexual
harassment cases, managers will find the widest divergence of perceptions
that they ever encounter.
o There is usually little evidence to substantiate anyone's allegations.
The employer often feels that something ought to be done but can think of
no action to take that does not infringe on the rights of one side or the
other.
o Although third-party intervention often heals other kinds of disputes,
such action in a sexual harassment case usually triggers wider disagreement
between the original actors, who then persuade bystanders to take sides.
o No matter how carefull worded the corporate policy concerning sexual
harassment is, new kinds of cases arise, and in such variety as to prevent
any precise anticipation of problems.
o Those offended may be unwilling to report sexual harassment if they think
that public exposure of the situation and mandatory punishment of the
offender will follow. Often they will talk with the manager only under an
agreement that no public action will be taken. (It is rate, in my
experience, for a complainant to ask for any kind of retribution; nearly
always this person simply wants the harassment to stop).
o The most serious aspect of almost all reported cases is the power
relationship between the alleged offender and the offended person. (I
believe that most sexual agressiveness that occurs *outside* a power
relationship is simply ignored or adequately dealt with by the offended
party.) In any case, reports of harassment usually involve fear of
retribution because of the supposed power of a particular group of
coworkers or of a supervisor. In fact, most reported cases do involve a
supervisor-subordinate relationship; hence, productivity is threatened.
Some practical approaches
I offer three recommendations for addressing these problems. First,
complainants can be helped to help themselves. Second, such conflicts can
usually be resolved most effectively through procedures designed to deal
with all kinds of complaints, not just sexual harassment. Third,
corporation should confront the issue of power differences in the troubled
relationship.
An employer must give unmistakable signals that action will be taken
against proved offenders, if the complainant will agree, and also that
proved targets of harassment will be protected from retaliation. But those
who deal with offended employees should first explore the possibilities of
helping them to help themselves when there is no proof, and, of course,
when the complainants prefer this method.
The sections that follow may be of special interest to offended persons
whose companies do not yet have policies and structures to support them.
What can the individual do?
Complainants must be willing to take action themselves in a rational and
responsible way. To many people this may seem unjust since it appears to
put a double burden on the offended person. This concern makes sense. But
I recommend such action because it works and because nothing else really
works as well.
Moreover, it helps offended persons to focus their anger outside themselves
instead of becoming sick or depressed, which often happens otherwise.
Finally, such measures may be the only way to obtain evidence for
management (or the courts) to act on.
The aims of individual action are:
> To give the offended and offender a chance, usually for the first time,
to see things the same way. Since neither person may have any
understanding of how the other sees the problem, discussion may help.
Entry of a third party at this stage usually further polarizes the views of
the opposing persons.
> To give those who are wrongly accused the chance to defend themselves.
> To give those who are correctly, or to some extent correctly, accused the
chance to make amends. (This may not be possible in serious cases.)
> To provide some evidence of the offense, since usually there is no
substantive evidence at all. This step is vital if management or the
courts must later take action.
> To give aggressors who do not understand what they were doing a fair
warning, if this is appropriate.
> To provide the offended employee a chance to get the harassment stopped
without provoking public counterattack, experiencing public embarrassment,
harming third parties, damaging the company's reputation, or causing the
aggressor to lose face. In my experience, these points are almost always
considered important by the aggrieved person.
> To provide offended persons a way to demonstrate that they tried all
reasonable means to get the offender to stop. This step may be convincing
later to supervisors, spouses, and others who have become involved.
> To encourage ambivalent complainants, as well as those who have
inadvertently given misunderstood signals, to present a consistent and
clear message.
Writing a letter: One method that works quite consistenly, even when many
verbal requests have failed, is for the offended person to write a letter
to the accused. I usually recommend a polite, low-key letter (which may
necessitate many drafts).
The letter I recommend has three parts. The first part should be a
detailed statement of facts as the writer sees them: "This is what I think
happened..." I encourage a precise rendition of all facts and dates
relevant to the alleged harassment. This section is sometimes very long.
In the second part of the letter, writers should describe their feelings
and what damage they think has been done. This is where opinions belong.
"Your actions made me feel terrible"; "I am deeply embarrassed and worried
that my parents will hear about this"; "You have caused me to ask for a
transfer (change my career objectives; drop out of the training course;
take excessive time off; or whatever)." The writer should mention any
perceived or actual costs and damages, along with feelings of dismay,
distrust, revulsion, misery, and so on.
Finally, I recommend a short statement of what the accuser would like to
have happen next. Since most persons only want the harassment to end, the
letter might finish by saying so: "I ask that our relationship from now on
be on a purely professional basis."
Someone who knows that he or she contributed to the problem does well to
say so: "Although we once were happy dating, it is important to me that we
now reestablish a formal and professional relationship, and I ask you to do
so."
If the letter writer believes some remedy or recompense is in order, this
is the place to say so: "Please withdraw my last evaluation until we can
work out a fair one"; "I will need a written answer as to the reference you
will provide from now on"; and statements of that type.
What happens next: The complainant should, if possible, deliver the letter
in person to know that it arrived and when it arrived. When necessary, a
plainclothes police officer, security person, or some other protector
and/or witness should accompany the writer or be present when the letter is
delivered. The writer of the letter should keep a copy.
Usually the recipient simply accepts the letter, says nothing, and reforms
his or her behavior. Sometimes there is an apology, an astounded opening
of discussion, or a denial. Rarely will the recipient reply in writing to
"set the record straight." Nearly always, the alleged harassment stops.
Obviously, it is now more dangerous for the recipient of such a letter to
harass the employee. The letter constitutes an attempt to settle the
problem peaceably.
A good letter is useful if the complainant later feels the need to appeal
to high-level management, especially if the writer can prove it was
delivered. It can also, if necessary, constitute invaluable legal
evidence. Such letters are usually enough to stop a mildly disturbed
aggressor--for example, someone who importunes with sexual inuendo and
suggestions for sexual activity.
Even if a written order or request to stop harassment does not succeed, in
my experience the complainant is always better off for having tried tostop
the offense in a direct and unambiguous way.
Finally, and possibly most important, taking action in this or similar ways
often has a powerful effect on all participants. Taut nerves relax as
victims learn they can protect themselves. Insomniacs get needed sleep.
Productivity improves.
Both persons are likely to feel better about themselves. Aggressors
sometimes turn for help, through which their self-esteem may rise. They
may also stop harassing people, thus sparing those who could have become
victims; this often matter greatly to the person who takes action.
For all these reasons I strongly encourage persons who feel harassed to
take action themselves if possible.
Employer's role
By what I have said so far I do not mean to imply that employers should
place all the burden on those who are offended. Employers can and should
encourage employees to take the measures already discussed. They may need
to protect their employees from retaliation from a group of coworkers or a
supervisor and also to offer strong emotional support.
If significant evidence of wrong-doing is available, the employer may also
wish to reprimand the offender, deny a promotion or raise, require
attendance at a training program, or transfer, demote, or fire the
offender.
What about persons who are too bewildered, frightened, or unsure even to
write a letter? Obviously it helps them to talk things over, in
confidence, with one or two responsible and supportive people.
If, as frequently happens, an offended employee is suffering physical
consequences, such as anorexia, sleeplessness, or anxiety-induced pain, he
or she may need medical help. Some victims will want to talk things out
with a social worker, psychologist, psychiatrist, Employee Assistance
person, or other company counselor, if such people are known to be discreet
and supportive.
Special measures
It often helps the offended person to keep a diary, a careful log of events
and feelings. This can serve to affirm the sanity of the writer, who
otherwise may begin to doubt the reality of the situation, especially if
coworkers are unaware or unsympathetic.
Writing in a diary will help to turn anger outward and will provide clues
for responsible action by the offended person and by management. It can
provide legal evidence as well. Keeping a diary may also resolve
ambivalence ("Am I interested in him/her?") or demonstrate later one's lack
of ambivalence to a doubting observer. A careful diary is always useful
later if it seems wise to write a letter of the sort I described earlier.
Persons who feel victimized should do whatever they can to get together
with others who will understand. Women's networks can help a great deal.
If the company has no such structure, a woman should try to form one with
the knowledge and approval of management. Management stands to gain from
such groups since in-house women's networks usually give strong support to
orderly and responsible change. Outside the workplace, there are
compassionate and responsible organizations like the Alliance Against
Sexual Coercion, the Working Women's Institute, and the National Commission
on Working Women.
Cases of sexual harassment in which the complainant is a man are rare but
especially painful. The typcial offender is also male, and a male target
often feels alone because he is too embarrassed to discuss his problem. As
with most female victims, the principal problems for men may be to overcome
bewilderment and the immobilizing effect of violent fantasies. They, too,
need to muster courage to take action.
Here again, there is no substitute for discussing the problem with
discreet, sympathetic, and responsible people. The man who feels sexually
harassed should make every effort to find help. (Senior supervisors and
commissions against discrimination are often helpful.) In the meantime, a
male who feels harassed should keep a diary and consider writing a letter.
Effective complaint procedures
Sexual harassment problems have illuminated the general need for better
complaint procedures. Union grievance procedures should be reviewed to see
if they really work with respect to this class of complaints.
Companies should also have explicit general complaint procedures for
employees not in unions. To deal adequately with sexual harassment,
non-union complaint procedures must apply to employees and managers at
every level. In my experience, the degree of sexual harassment is about
the same at every level of employment. Studies show that many top managers
are poorly informed about sexual harassment: usually people do not
misbehave in front of the boss. It is not true, however, tht sexual
harassment is relatively rare near the top.
Nonunion complaint procedures should be as general as possible, admitting
every kind of employee and every kind of concern. Sexual harassment cases
will represent only a small percentage of the problems brought in, but the
grievance procedure will enjoy a better and wider reputation and will
operate more effectively if it works well with every kind of employee
concern. In such procedures, it should be unnecessary to give a label to
every problem, especially a very controversial problem, before management
can help.
With poorly defined and controversial problems like sexual harassment,
mediation-oriented procedures work best, at least in the first stages;
usually the first hope is to help people help themselves. Initial contact
with the procedure must, of course, be completely confidential.
The complaint procedure should include both women and men, minorities and
nonminorities, as contacts at some point in the process to ensure that
different people feel free to come in. It is also essential to establish a
procedure for bypassing one's supervisor in a case where that person is the
offender. Finally, nonunion complaint procedures should be okayed by the
CEO or someone else neara the top.
The power relationship
Employers may find it helps in dealing with sexual harassment problems to
confront directly the general issue of sexual relationships in the
supervisory context.
Many people feel strongly that the private lives of employees have nothing
to do with company business. However, sexual relationships in the context
of supervision often present management with problems that affect company
interests. Thismay be true even in the case of mutually consenting
relationships.
When a senior person makes sexual overtures, a junior person may experience
and allege coercion, exploitation, intimidation, and blackmail, and may
fear retribution. Such reactions are common even when the senior person
would be shocked to learn that the overtures were unwelcome. Neither sex
can know for sure what the other experiences, and each is likely to
misinterpret the feelings of the other.
Also, consenting relationships frequently break up. If the senior person
then continues to make overtures, the junior person may complain of
harassment. Then the senior person may be outraged, especially if he or
she believes that the junior person "started it." The relationship may
then disrupt the work environment.
Third parties sometimes complain bitterly about sexual relationships
involving a supervisor. Spouses may be outspoken complainants; employees
may resent real or preceived favoritism; and the morale of the senior
person's subordinates may drop sharply. In consenting relationships that
involve a junior person who is trading sexual favors for advancement,
management's interests are jeopardized, especially if the junior person is
not the employee most deserving of promotion.
Sexual relationships between supervisor and subordinate are frequently very
distracting to these two. Also, the existence of widely known consenting
relationships sometimes encourages other supervisors to make unwelcome
sexual overtures to other employees.
Some companies act on the principle that all sexual relationships between
supervisors and their subordinates may conflict with company interests.
Where genuine loving relationships do arise, the supervisor should be
expected to take steps quickly to deal with the conflict of interest.
Sometimes supervision of the junior employee can be transferred to another
manager. Or the senior member of the pair might discuss the situation with
management.
This kind of policy may serve another purpose. The supervisor who is a
target of unwanted seduction attempts, as well as the employee who is
unhappy at being propositioned, is often reluctant to hurt the other
person's feelings. And often it may not be clear whether unwelcome sexual
overtures should be considered harassment.
It can help in such situations for the beleaguered party to have a company
policy to fall back on so that it becomes unnecessary to define a
proposition as harassment or to tell someone that he or she is not an
attractive partner. It is simpler to say, "We can't."
Finally, a company policy against sexual relationships in supervision may
be critical to the success of mentoring programs for women. It is
absolutely vital to the success of women that they be seen to advance on
the basis of the quality of their work and that they receive the same
guidance and sponsorship that men receive.
Successful mentor alliances require men and women to work closely together.
Thus men must feel free to encourage and criticize the performance of women
without innuendo from others and without provoking suspicion. Programs for
advancement, for men as well as for women, can succeed only in an
atmosphere where neither harassment nor the fear of it exists.
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