Conference quark::mennotes-v1

I suppose we can make this into a generic "Valentine's Gift" note -
otherwise I'd see little relevance to MENNOTES.

Anyway, I am a believer in gifts from children being gifts FROM children -
not adult-chosen-and-paid-for gifts wrapped up and handed to the kid to
present.  I admit that a 2-year-old can't use their allowance to buy
a gift, so in that case I would say that the gift should be something
"of" the child, such as a framed picture of him, or a drawing he did.

				Steve

    	My mind boggles at the whole concept. You can give a present or
    token of appreciation *any* day of the year. The only thing I can think
    of that is special about St. Valentine's day is that you give to someone
    who is (or you would like to be) a sexual partner.
    
    	The French calender has a saint for *every* day of the year. Choose
    a day a few days later and give a present asociated with the saint for
    *that* day. Maybe I have been too long in France...

Re: .2

Well, like most other holidays, Valentine's Day in the US has been diluted
into a holiday in which you give gifts to "a loved one", not necessarily
a romantic partner, though indeed that tends to be the primary focus.  In
many other ways, all of the original meaning has been removed - for example,
my first grader's teacher sends home a list of all of his classmates so he
can address "valentines" to each and every one of them.  I know this is
done to avoid the mortifying terror of NOT receiving a valentine, but
I think the whole concept of 7-year-olds trading valentines is ridiculous.
And we wonder why kids become sexually precocious so early!

				Steve

    I would have never thought of a Valentine gift coming from A 2 YEAR
    OLD to either his Mom or Grandmom... but if you really want something
    that comes FROM HIM, not you...
    why not make a batch of soft clay, fill a nice cute bowl with it and
    have HIS HANDPRINT? A friend did that to me on my boys' first year,
    "HE" gave it to me for Xmas gift, and 19 years later... I still dust it
    and love it every time I see it displayed on the mantel... he is a good
    wrester now, 6 foot one, and the best boy there is! and boy, do I love
    him! it is umbelievable to see his cute tiny hand... then, and now.
    That gift was the best thing he ever gave me... I'll keep it till I
    die.
    
    On Valentine day, only my husband will get something from me and I will
    also get something from him, but normally is something special and
    private, not necesarily exotic or expensive, just a little touch... I
    give when I feel like giving, not when "society" tell me I have to give
    
    (I hate comercialization and stay away from society's pressures or
    obligations...)
               

    re .3
    
    Steve,
    
    I don't think that exchanging valentines leads to promiscuity!
    
    I think you son's teacher was wise to give everyone a list of people in
    the class; sometimes we inadvertently forget someone.  It's also tough
    to watch someone get loads of valentines if you only have a couple.
    
    
    re .0
    
    Keep it simple; let your son draw a picture or give her a plant.
    
    
    Judi
    

    
    
    He will need help from you for this one.  Take some construction paper
    preferably his favorite color.  Then grab a box of macaroni, yes
    macaroni.  Any type will do, but we used to use the rigotoni because
    of its shape.  Anyway, take the macaroni and color it with a magic
    marker.   This part can get messy, so have him wear something he can
    get marker on without ruining.  After coloring the macaroni, glue it
    onto the construction paper in the shape of a heart.  
    
    Easy to do with very little time and cost.  Plus it is much nicer
    for Grammy to get something that was made with little hands!!
    
    Have fun,
    Michele

Re: .5

Judi, what I was referring to was the way we insist that our young children
select "lovers" so early in life.  They don't understand what it's all
about, adults think it's "cute".  But this is setting themselves up for
unrealistic expectations as they get older with the notion that it's required
to have a "girlfriend" or "boyfriend" to be successful.

I just about gagged when my son, still in kindergarten at the time, was
telling me about his "lovergirls" in his class.

As for "forgetting someone" - yes, I know that's why the lists are handed
out.  But doesn't it make a mockery of the whole concept of giving
a valentine?

				Steve

    re .7, but, Steve, if your son is giving a valentine to every kid in
    the class, he's not selecting a "lover" is he?  :-)
    I mean, he's not selecting anything, he's giving to everybody.
    
    I think it's better to make sure all the kids get a card.  Otherwise,
    only one or two of the cutest kids would get a pile of valentines and
    the the least attractive children wouldn't get any, and that would be
    worse.  Then there'd be kids feeling like scum because they didn't get a
    valentine in kindergarten or 1st grade or whatever.  
    
    Lorna
      
    

Re: .8

>    re .7, but, Steve, if your son is giving a valentine to every kid in
>    the class, he's not selecting a "lover" is he?  :-)
>    I mean, he's not selecting anything, he's giving to everybody.

Exactly.  So why is he giving valentines at all?  What is the meaning of
giving someone a valentine?  Why do we tell our kids that this is something
they have to do?

				Steve

    re .9, why give valentines at all?  Some people might think it's fun. 
    You know, something a little different than the daily routine, spice
    life up a little bit????  
    
    Lorna
    

    G'Day,
    
    	Here in Australia, Valentines cards/gifts are normally only given
    to lovers/people you would like to be your lover etc.  I have never
    heard of children giving parents Valentines gifts - it's all a bit
    pointless.  When I was at school we didn't start with Valentines until
    around mid high school when it was a little more appropriate.  I've
    been out of school for 12 years now so things may have changed but I
    don't think so.
    
    	Of course we all know the REAL reason for Valentine's Day don't
    we???   It's a long time between Christmas and Easter so how would the
    card companies and shops survive without yet another money spending
    frenzy???
    
    David.
    

    There are *plenty* of unusual holiday rituals!  Thanks to Hallmark and
    FTD it is drummed into our heads that we're terrible, ungrateful people
    if we forget to send flowers/cards/candy/whatever.  
    
    Steve, did you son's teacher explain why they're exchanging valentines?  
    Are them making them or buying those hideous mass produced cards with
    the paper-thin envelopes?
    
    Can't we celebrate anything without Hallmark capitalizing on it?
    Arrrrgh.  I'm not a humbug about the various and sundry holidays, it's
    just that the meaning has been buried in advertising!
    
    I like the unexpected cards that are sent "just because".
    
    
    Judi
    

    Well, we are a capitalist society, aren't we?  It seems that whenever
    someone in notes points out the good points of socialism, people become
    incensed while praising capitalism.  Hallmark is out to make a buck,
    just like everybody else in this country.  Why not?
    
    I think Valentine's Day is fun, and I think people should be able to
    give valentines to whoever they want.  You people are sounding like
    grumps to me.
    
    Lorna
    

    G'Day,
    
    	Having now read a few more replies I have realised that the US
    actually has a holiday for Valentine's Day.  We certainly don't.  Maybe
    that is why you place more family emphasis on it because you will all be
    together on the day.  Not me, I'll be off to the office as usual but
    I'll be giving my wife her present before I leave :-).
    
    David.
    

    David
    
    we don't get a work holiday for Valentines day. However, it is
    and has long been traditional for kids to give valentines in
    grade school and have a party with candy and cupcakes and juice
    in valentines themes. It tends to break up February which can
    be a dull and boring month here in the Northern Hemisphere.
    
    My guess is that in OZ/NZ etc, with the children out of school this
    would not have caught on as a children's holiday.
    
    Bonnie

    Re: .14
    
    Kel,
    
    I too see nothing wrong with a gift from a grandson to his
    grandmother.  I think you chose wisely - she'll cherish that
    card long after the trip has faded in her mind.
    
    				Steve

    	The French tradition is that for every day in the calender there is
    a saint, and when you register a birth the given name must be one of
    the recognised saints. Presents are more traditionally given on the saints
    day rather than at Christmas or birthdays.
    
    	If you are on first name terms with someone then you know which
    day of the year to give them a present, and you will be reminded
    the day before as part of the meteorological forecast on French
    television.
    
    	"Tomorrow there will be slight rain, and people named Beatrice
    will be celebrating their saint's day".
    
    	I am all in favour of showing liking and appreciation, I was
    just surprised at the choice of day (Unless Granny is called
    Valentine :-)

    re:.18, and off the topic a might:
    
    Aren't there a lot of saints with the same name, such as John (Jean?),
    how would you know which belonged to whom?
    
    ed
    

    Yes, Hallmark is out to make a buck.  What I object to is the
    overabundance of commercials around the holidays that really push
    merchandise.  
    
    The Valentine's merchandise was displayed at least 5-6 weeks ago and
    I just saw the first Easter display in CVS!  I'm tired of getting
    bombarded with products!  (Has anyone been reading the comic strip
    "Cathy"?)
    
    
    Judi
    

A florist in Nashua has a sign out that says "Spend Money on your Honey".

			Steve

    You are partly right DAVE in .18, one saint for each day of the year is
    not especially a french tradition, it is a catholic tradition,
    available also in Italy, Spain, Portugal... I don't know if the Irish
    poeple also have this tradition.
    For the french protestants or evangelists this tradition means nothing.
    
    Nowaday you can give your child the name you want, even if it is not in
    the calendar. 
    
    I like this tradition because it is agreable to make or receive
    presents. 
    
    As SAINT VALENTIN is also the "f�te des amoureux" in France. It is 
    the florists' fest too.
    
    Do someone knows where it comes from that SAINT VALENTIN(E) is the fest
    for lovers ?
    
    THIERRY

    re .22, you beat me to it.  I was going to ask .18 what this saints day
    business would mean to protestants or Jews who happened to be living in
    France.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    mebbe thats where the "de Someplace" comes in, to distinguish
    between all the St. Jeans...

    >Nowaday you can give your child the name you want, even if it is not in
    >the calendar. 
    
    	Please take the following as just a statement of fact. Valbonne has
    a *very* mixed community, and I have known Swedish protestants and
    Checkoslovaks of unknown religion forced by the registrar to give their
    children names that were the French versions of Catholic saints. It may
    no longer be a requirement, and maybe the change takes a long time to
    get through to local registrars, and maybe a French Jew would know his
    rights. I know some young children whose names are maybe not what their
    parents would have had as first choice.
    
    	The same sort of thing used to happen in the U.S.. Your surname on
    immigration was something the immigration officer could spell,
    regardless of what it was before.��
    
    	I am not sure I like the forcing of a limited set of names, but the
    idea that once a year you can give a present to someone just because
    you know them and like them and it is a special day for *them* is nice.

    re:     	The same sort of thing used to happen in the U.S.. Your surname on
    immigration was something the immigration officer could spell,
    regardless of what it was before.��
    
    I read that, at Ellis Island, if an immigrant said his name was
    Br<mumble-mumble>ski, it became Brown.  If there were a lot of Browns
    already that day, it became Browning.
    
    What is it?  Smith, Jones, Brown, Johnson, Browning, ... (top 5
    surnames)?
    
    ed