Conference quark::mennotes-v1

I think it largely depends on why the marriage broke up and what the man's
attitude toward his ex-wife was, as well as his attitude towards marriage
itself.  In the case of your brothers, it seems that both are searching for
what is often referred to as a "trophy wife".  Can you say "mid-life crisis"?

In my own case, I was not concerned with appearance or financial status, but
was very much concerned with personality and values.  In particular, if
I was to marry again, it would have to be to a woman to whom marriage means
the same thing as it does to me, a lifetime commitment.

			Steve

> I think it largely depends on why the marriage broke up and what the man's
> attitude toward his ex-wife was, as well as his attitude towards marriage
> itself.  
    
    I second the motion, Steve.  In my case, I got out of the marriage
    because I thought I was dying (literally) and I needed to start life
    over.  I have been doing that for six years now and over this last
    summer/fall I changed more than in any preceding year, and in the 
    process changed my attitude toward women.
    
    Do I know what I want in a woman?  Well, yes, more than last year,
    at least.  Have the women that I have known over the six years
    been able to accept the changes in me?  Frankly, no.
    
    Does marriage look like a good bet for me or the woman?  Not now.
    
    Wil

    I was in my late 40's when I got divorced (after 20+ years of a very
    rocky marriage).  
    
    I'd heard horror stories of how divorced people "tend" to marry others
    who are very much like the one just divorced from... no improvement
    there!  So, I determined to wait, for as long as it took, to find
    someone with whom I could be happy.  (As it turned out, that wait
    didn't last too long.)
    
    One of the tragedies of divorce (for many people) is that they do not
    have a clear understanding of what they want, and act (or react) on
    emotions.  As a previous noter replied, "finding out" who you are and
    what you want may take a long time.  But, he is wise to realize that
    acting before he discovers those things will limit chances for a
    successful second marriage.
       
    I count myself very fortunate in that I am convinced that the years of 
    my previous marriage established in me a pretty firm vision of
    what I did NOT want in a spouse... and looking into myself (with the
    sometimes help of others, both professional and non-professional)
    helped me discover the sort of things I thought I DID want in a spouse.  
    
    So, armed with the CONs and  the PROs, I filtered through a few
    relationships, and suddenly discovered that a woman who had become a
    very good FRIEND, (probably because she was precicely what I did want,
    and none of what I didn't want), became romantically interested in me..
    and I in her.  
    
    Our decision to marry was every bit as much an intellectual decision as
    it was a decision of the heart.
    
    I am a very, very lucky guy!
    
    tony

    
    "true love" of truly epic mushy proportions
    
    non sarcastic, non cycnical
    
    doesn't take self overly seriously

    From 700 years ago,  Rumi, a Persian poet:
    
        The clear bead at the center changes everything.
        There are no edges to my loving now.
    
        I've heard it said there's a window
         that opens from one mind to another,
    
        But if there's no wall, there's no
         need for fitting the window, or the latch.

    I hadn't heard the expression "trophy wife" before. It sounds right on
    target. The recently-divorced brother is extremely competitive, and I
    get the impression that he's vying with his ex-wife to find the most
    attractive replacemate (tm). She got out of the marriage in part because
    she found the social circle and social activities he deemed appropriate
    to be much too restrictive... and now newly single, she's living the
    alternative life-style to the hilt, as reported to my brother regularly
    by his colleagues.
    
    Divorce DOES make people crazy, perhaps because the old constraints and
    routines are dissolved precipitously (oxymoron?).
    
    - Hoyt            

    
    I would think that a divorced male would be looking for quite the
    opposite of what he just came from and would know what he doesn't want
    in a marriage or relationship.......I'm in the process of a divorce and
    although I'm not a man, I know my life has changed severly and I'm
    living the opposite life style that I had been with my husband, but
    I'm enjoying my life much more.
    
    -Lynn
    

    What do divorced men look for in their next mate?

    The tacit assumption here is that there will be a "next" mate.  Could
    anyone venture a guess as to some correlation between the number of
    years married and the probability of remarry?  I would think that
    the shorter the first marriage, the higher the probability of a "next"
    mate, and, the longer the first marriage, the lower the probability of
    a "next" mate.  I wonder.

    As for me ... hummm..... I don't think that there will ever be a
    "next" ... possible, but, not probable.  In any case, I do not have a
    "shopping list".
    
    Jerry

    My brother and his wife were married for EXACTLY the same number of
    years :). She is determined not to marry, and predicts that he will
    shortly. He definitely intends to marry, and forecasts that she won't.
    And they were married for 25 years. That's one datum, anyway.
    
    It seems like the decision would depend on your net review of the
    experience, e.g. was being married better or worse than being
    unmarried. In the case of my brother and uncles (and me, if the worst
    ever happens), there's an incentive to marry: otherwise, we'd have to
    do the grocery shopping, cooking, and cleaning ourselves! :) / :(
    
    This might well explain my ex-sister-in-law's attitude. She feels that
    she's made great sacrifices, cooking and cleaning for her family for 25
    years. Her intent to take care of just HERSELF is consistent with her
    aversion to remarriage, and her and her ex-husband's conviction that
    he'll remarry goes along with his WANTING to have those chores handled
    for him.
    
    Reading what I've written, I'm feeling like I should take on more of
    the housework!
    
    - Hoyt

    .1> depends on why the marriage broke up
    .1> attitude towards marriage itself.

    .8> The tacit assumption here is that there will be a "next" mate.

    .8> some correlation between the number of years married and the
    .8> probability of remarry?

    Ya, all of that sounds about right to me.  I'm 44, and I was
    divorced last year after 16+ years of marriage.  The first 12, were
    the happiest years of my life.

    IMO - happily married is the best, but not only, way to live.
          {Note: I don't need a housekeeper, I can take care of myself}

        - I would like an intelligent, independent (can take care of
          herself) companion I can trust.  I think two people going
	  through life putting in equal effort and taking equal
	  responsibility can do anything, and have fun at it.

        - Considering how the divorce courts will treat a man at the
          request of an angry ex "for the sake of the children", there
          may not be a "next" mate.  I'm going to wait a few years
          (at least until the alimony payments end) before I answer that
          question for sure.  


    Richard

    I wonder how many subsequent marriages are simply to fill the void in
    one's life?  Some people may take to single life again, but I suspect
    the image of the 'gay divorcee' is largely the result of wishful
    thinking.  If single life was that great then why remarry?

Interesting. Qualitifations: I'm on my third and final marriage.
    My new wife (in Aug 1987) and I made a simple pact:  We will resolve
    any problem that occurs.  If one of us decides we are not interested
    in resolving the problem, we will get divorced.


>             -< What do divorced men look for in their next mate? >-

    Sometimes, what people "consciosly "look  for",  is  not  what  they
    finally end up with.
    
>    visit, because I was the stodgy old-married-guy, while they were going
>    out to the clubs and ogling on the beach.

    Some women are entirely fascinated by  "stodgy  old  guys",  because
    odler men tend to be viewed as more stable, reliable, and trustable.
    
>    entirely interested in appearence. We talked about that, and it turns
>    out that the recent divorcee also has lots of other criteria: she has
>    to be able to (at minimum) support herself, and it wouldn't hurt if she

    Andrea Dworkin had this to say about  this  phenomena:   Men can see
    better  than  they  think.,  an  "...most  women  tend   to  marry  men
    intelectually inferior to themselves..."
    
>    of criteria... either that, or perhaps some simpler criterion like
>    "someone I can love."
    
    Or better yet, someone who is willing to get  to know us, and will
    still love us when they do.  Shared Love is always better.  Not just
    tol ove someone, but someone to share love with.

>    second wife because she was DONE with home-making, and found himself
>    someone happy to cook and clean.
    
    Is this cheaper than hiring a housekeeeper ?

>    has, on men's subsequent search for a love-object. Is the tendency to
>    find someone like the previous spouse, or just the opposite? Are looks
>    more or less important? How do tastes change?

    The basic contract my wife and i share is this:   We will do what is
    best  to  preserve  our  love  for  each other, and the PRIMARY MOST
    IMPORTANT aspect of our relationship is our love for each other.  It
    is a  shared love, not "my love" for her, nor "her love" for me, bur
    our love together.    Together, we decide on those issues which will
    best preserve our togetherness.
    
    In this context, it's  truly amazing how many otehrewise "important"
    issues  become trivial, when it  is  our  relationship  whic  is  of
    primary importance.
    
    Comment:
    I have heard it said, that  women from the Caribbean tend to be more
    home and family oriented than those of  other  cultures.    I  don't
    know if it is true or not, but  my  wife  does  come from Martinique
    (French,  not  native  or  creole),  and  he family is  very  family
    oriented as the basic social unit.
    
    -BobE
    

    HAVING BEEN DIVORCED SINCE AUGUST LAST YEAR, I DONT KNOW WHAT IM
    LOOKING FOR, I AM STILL LOOKING BUT I WILL KNOW WHEN I FIND IT (I HOPE)
    
    39 AND SINGLE

As a moderator of SINGLES I read many `personal ads', and I can confidently
say that for both sexes instances can be found that appear to be primarily
interested in appearance, or to be down-playing appearance.  It really depends
upon the person.

Rich

    Ive been divorced for about 6 years, no plans at this time to remarry
    so no requirements have been developed. My kids and hobbies take all
    my time. 

    re: .14
    
    the reference to SINGLES makes me reply... you might check it out.
    
    I met my wife in there..
    
    tony

    Better late than never...
    
    What do I, as a divorced male, personally, look for in my *next* "mate"?
    
    
    
    ...sanity...love...devotion...compassion...humor...expectations...values...
    ...beauty...sanity...honesty...emotional stability...monogamy...faith...
    ...sanity...and the ability for us *both* to share all of these things 
                equally and freely between us...
    
    
    
    ...man-o-man...what a rare find that would be...in either sex...and even 
    when we do find it, in some couples, either one partner or the other hurls
    it against the wall...and it smashes like a once pretty crystal flower.