Conference quark::mennotes-v1

You have a problem here....  You think there is too much furniture, he
doesn't.  You think his furniture is "ratty" - he might consider this an
insult against him and his preferences.  He apparently thinks the furniture
is fine.

The issue is not how to convince him to get rid of his furniture, but rather
how to work out amongst yourselves a mutually satisfactory solution.  Maybe
it means you will decide you can live with the extra furniture.  Maybe you'll
get rid of some of yours.  Maybe he'll get rid of some of his.  Don't discount
his feelings in this - he may be emotionally attached to certain pieces, and
may view your attempt to get rid of them as an attack on him.

What does he think of your furniture?  

		Steve

    
    
    Steve,
    
    Actually the real issue is that he is afraid to get rid of it for
    fear that we do not get married or do get married and split.
    Then he will be stuck without any furniture.  He has had
    several bad relationships which has left him with a strong
    mistrust of himself. 
    
    I refuse to get rid of my living room set because it is brand
    new.  That is not an issue with him.  He helped me to pick
    this furniture out when I was living alone.  He does agree
    that we have too much furniture.   
    
    We did work out a mutually satisfying solution which was to
    have his friend take it to be donated to the shelter.  He agreed
    to it and we scheduled time to have it picked up.  But he has
    changed his mind.  
    
    Several of his friends have even made comment to him about what
    to do with it.  They all agree that it looks like hell, especially
    since we have new furniture.  
    
    If I do compromise and take it with us it is only going to be put
    in a cellar or something.  I do not want our living room to continue
    to look like a doctors office.  Sure I can live with it, but not
    next to the new furniture.  It just doesnt work.  We can't afford
    to have any of it reupolstered either.  I don't want to get stuck
    in a situation with him that we are going to have to be lugging
    around his old furniture every time we move.  As it stands today
    he has at least 4 pieces of furniture in the cellar that have
    not been used in 3 years.  I see no sense in bringing any of it
    with us, but he wants to.  To me if it has been sitting there for
    three years with no use chances are we are not going to use it
    in the new place.
    
    I can't see any other ways of compromise on this.  I guess what
    I am asking for are creative ideas???
    
    
    Michele

    Could you rent a place with an extra room and use his furniture there
    as a den/get-away place for him?  That way he could keep the furniture,
    but you wouldn't have to face it in your "living" area.
    
    Re. its rattiness, perhaps the two of you could engender a bit of 
    teamwork over a common goal and learn how to refinish and reupholster?  
    It's not terribly hard, and can be really rewarding.
    
    I guess I'm a bit more sympathetic with him and his concerns, having
    also been a bit reluctant to give up "my" furniture for fear of having
    to replace it if something didn't turn out the way I hoped it would. 
    Guess it's a bit like a security blanket for some of us.
    
    Karen

    Michele,
    
    You hit the nail on the head.  The furniture is his security
    blanket.  DON'T take it away from him.  What would you do if the
    situation was reversed?  Storing it in a cellar works fine (cover
    it good with plastic).  It will give him the security he needs
    and it will keep it from cluttering up your rooms.
    
    Maybe you can make a deal that if he gets rid of his stuff and
    you two do break up, you'll give him half of your new stuff?
    
    Sandie

    
    i must confess that when i read your base note i kind of thought
    that the underlying cause could be as you indicated in .2!! 
    
    how did i know?  i'm on the other side of your coin...  :^)
    
    when i moved in with my SO, i too had furniture that would not be
    used in our new place...  i too heard about how ratty and ugly it
    was...  and most was put in the cellar for storage...  some of my
    "ratty old furniture" was used in the house (actually she was thankful
    on a few occasions that we had two couches, even though one was
    clearly in poorer shape)...  some stashed downstairs...  
    
    was hanging onto my old furniture a "security blanket"?  definitely...
    as it turns out, it was a good thing i kept it...  i'll be needing
    when i move...  :^(
                           
    i don't necessarily have any "creative ideas" for how to resolve
    it...  my recommendation would be to take the stuff and store it
    in the cellar if you have to...  small price to pay imho...  i would
    also suggest you talk about why he wants it there...  in my case, like
    his, a less-than-perfect past history made me want to keep it...
    but i also knew that the re were issues/differences between us that
    might lead to a parting of ways...  the fact that he feels he needs it 
    may say something about how comfortable he is about your future 
    together...  you might want to try and investigate why he feels he 
    needs it and, if he has specific issues that cause his uncertainty,
    find out what they are and work on them...
    
    if he feels he neeeds his stuff, let him keep it...  why he needs
    to keep it is a bigger issue though, than what to do with it...
    if you do get married and/or he feels more secure in the relationship,
    it will find it's own way out the door...  
    
    					da ve  

    You might also want to look into a small storage room at one of the
    Public Storage places. I don't know how large his stuff is, but if it
    would fit in a 10x5 room it might be cheaper than trying to find a
    place to live large enough to hold all of the combined stuff (or a
    large enough basement).
    
    		Dave L.

    Aha! The answer is OBVIOUS! If he needs to keep the furniture for
    "security", try a variation on the theme of pre-nuptial agreements.
    Sign your furniture over to him, then you get to live with the stuff,
    and he gets the security he needs in case the relationship doesn't work
    out. If you're not willing to do that, one might guess that you have
    concerns similar to his, and just happen to possess the material in
    better condition.

    
    The last two ideas are pretty good.
    Although I'd go along with the storage, and to be fair, split the
    costs.
    
    Whatever, hope it works out.
    
    							Hank

    
    
    re -1
    
    I wouldnt have any objections to doing that if he would agree to get
    rid of the old stuff.  However, I seriously doubt that he would
    go along with it.  
    
    I have no issue with security within myself.  I am begining to take
    issue with his lack of trust in himself on relationships.  He and
    I have a 4.5 year history.  We lived together when we first started
    dating, then he moved in with the mother of his kid to help raise
    her.  That only lasted a year and we have been together since then.
    We did not stop our relationship during all of this, but it was
    difficult at times.  I think it really aggrivates me that he is 
    still hesitant about letting go of his fear.  I keep telling him
    that if I were going to leave him I would have done it a long
    time ago.  We plan on marrying, and I plan on sticking around.
    
    
    If it is that important for him to keep the furniture then so be it.
    I just don't want our house to look like a halfway house.  
    
    Thanks for helping,
    Michele

    When I "moved in" with someone, one set of furniture went home to
    relatives for storage.  So maybe you could see if any
    relatives of yours or his have storage space, or could use it (like a
    student or something who won't really need it forever), and you can
    park it there, and know it's being treated fairly well by a relative,
    and that its easily retrievable if necessary.....
    
    -Jody

    If you moved in with him....What did you guys talk about before you
    both decided to move in??? I know how he must feel...I had my own 
    stuff while my (now) wife and I lived together. She didn't like my
    furniture at all. I had a KING size waterbed with Mirror head board
    and padded rail( I was divorced at the time) but her Queen size had
    matching dresser etc..so I sold mine..Same with my living room set.
    and dining room table... BIG mistake.. although I like all the "NEW"
    furniture we now have...it really wasn't "ME" I never thought it would
    bother me (I felt it's only furniture buy what you like) WRONG....
     I can only speak for myself.....but I think guys need that piece of 
    there past....What we did is put the stuff I like in a Den that is MY..
    little place in the sun. I put anything I want in there ..I think
    you should rent a place with a room in which he can put "HIS" things
    
    LIKE OLD SHIRTS AND SNEAKERS somthing I just can't get rid off....
    
    strange but true.
    
       just my 2cents   
     Bob
    

    
    
    re  last two
    
    I would love to be able to get a place with another room just for
    him.  But due to the current situation we have to provide three
    bedrooms to pacify his ex.  He is required by law to have
    a separate bedroom for his daughter (who is with us usually
    about once a month now).  So right there he needs one for her
    and one for him.  To pacify his ex, we have agreed to have
    another bedroom for me so that their daughter will not see us
    sleeping in the same bed when she is with us.  Sure that bothers
    me, but there is no choice in the matter other than to move out.
    As it stands we can barely afford a three bedroom apt. let alone
    look for a fourth.
    
    
    As for storing it at relatives or friends, all of his furniture
    used to belong to his relatives and friends.  He got all of the
    stuff folks left behind or did not want to take with them
    when they moved on.  So there would be an issue with "giving
    it back" if even for storage.  My family simply does not
    have any extra room to store some of the stuff.  His dad is
    selling the family house to move into a condo so that angle 
    is closed.
    
    
    We discussed this over the weekend at great length.  I honestly
    did not fully comprehend his issue with security.  I do not tie
    any of my security with material possessions so it makes it that
    much harder for me to understand his point of view.  Regardless,
    it looks like we will be moving all of the stuff and trying to
    figure what to do with it once we get into the new apartment.
    
    
    Thanks again,
    Michele
    
    

    granted this is a tangent but as far as the "three bedrooms to pacify
    the ex" goes, well, i would be banned from all notes forever if
    i stated my views on *that* one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    you have to live your lives for yourselves...  the ex is an ex...
    she shouldn't dictate what you two do in your home regardless of
    whether or not his daughter visits!!!!!!!  when i got divorced
    my ex had the same excement in the agreement...  basically it
    said that all visits would be for me alone with NOONE else (she
    was incredibly pissed that i was in another relationship right off)...
    she has *no right* to make such a demand...  she CANNOT use it as
    a reason to deny or otherwise affect visitation either!!!  it will
    not wash in court, it shouldn't have to be an issue in your home...
    
    tell the ex to shove it imho....
    
    				da ve
    

    in re .12
    
    do you have to keep the bedroom for the daughter just furnished
    and set up for her? seems to me that you could keep some
    of the furniture in there since she uses the room so seldom.
    
    Bonnie

    
    
    re last two
    
    Sure I think it stinks and I also think it is ridiculous that she can
    share (yes thats right mom and kiddo in the same bedroom side by side)
    a bedroom with the daughter while he has to provide her with her
    own.  But that is what his lawyer told me.  Also, he wants to keep
    it that way.  We both believe that Erin should have a room of her
    own because it is important for a child to have a special place.
    Providing her with her own room is not an issue with us.  
    
    The real issue of the bedrooms is why we need another room.  John
    and I share the same room when she is not with us, but we each
    have our own when she is with us.  This is not my doing.  He wants
    it this way with his reasoning being that it would confuse Erin.
    I say it is stupid to mislead her by changing our ways when she
    is around.  But I am not her parent and do not have a say in 
    how she is to be raised ( at least not until we are legally married).
    Of course the ex demands it becuase that is just what she wants.
    
    What really upsets me is that he thinks Erin does not suspect a
    thing, but I know she is far to smart to not have picked up on it.
    Even small things like little trinkets of mine she finds in "his"
    room she will notice and comment on.  To me it is only hurting her
    by hiding the truth, but he sees it as protecting her.  From what
    I will never understand???  Hopefully this will not last much longer
    though as I refuse to accept this once we become engaged.
       
    Bonnie,
    Some of the furniture is in her room.  In fact there is a sleep sofa
    in her room that she uses as her dollies bed.  She loves it!!!
    There isn't enough room to put anything else in there.
    
    
    Mi

    
    How old is Erin?

    The following is offered to the base noter out of concern and with 
    the best intentions.  Though it may sound harsh, these are the types
    of things I wish someone had made me face before _my_ first marriage.
    
    I'm hearing lots of conflict in your notes.  Based on your presentation
    of the two situations (disagreements over furniture and discontent over
    the sleeping arrangements when Erin is around), I predict that there is 
    much more than furniture and bedrooms at stake here.  It sounds like 
    you (as a couple) have some real conflicts over control, and at least 
    you (as an individual) have some expectations (realistic?) about how 
    things are going to change once you're married.
    
    Hard and bitter experience has taught me that (1) conflicts before
    marriage only get worse after marriage; and (2) if either of you expect
    the situation or the individuals to magically change to suit your
    expectations after the ceremony, you'll be disappointed.
    
    Unless the two of you can work TOGETHER to iron out these issues to
    your mutual satisfaction, I beg you to postpone formalizing your
    relationship.  Marriage is the joining of two individuals into one
    unit.  That doesn't mean that either person has to lose individual
    identity, but it does mean that you're to begin working as one when it
    comes to family matters.  From the postings here, it appears that the
    two of you are in opposite corners on some very basic issues.  
    
    It takes maturity to look beyond the "I wants" to reach the "we wills."  
    And it takes maturity to make a successful marriage.
    
    Karen  

    
    
    re -1
    
    Karen,
    
    Thanks for your concern.  Please don't be worried.  We do not
    plan on marrying for a minimum of two more years.  We both
    have lived together with each other before and it worked then.
    But that was before he had a child.  Of course now things
    are a bit different.  However, we both know that things are
    not going to magically change and that through open and
    honest communciation we can and will work on the differences
    to arrive at mutually acceptable solutions.
    
    We both happen to be two incredibly difficult people to live
    with.  Both of us were the "super achievers" in alcoholic
    families.  This helps in that we both know where to other
    is coming from on most issues, but it hurts in a way due to
    the control part of it.  We are now really beginning a
    compromise phase of our relationship, and we each know that
    if we can not get through this part in one piece and stronger
    than before we started going through it, then we will not have
    a future together.  But we are at times like two bulls in a china
    cabinet, both butting heads.  The fun part is learning how
    to stop before bumping heads and sitting down and agreeing 
    on things or agreeing to disagree on things.
    
    Again thanks for your concern,
    Michele
    
    
    
    
    We each have defined what we want from the relationship and from
    each other.  So there really are no unrealistic expectations
    going into this.  I learned a long time ago that he is no prince
    in shining armor riding on a white horse coming to take me away
    to never never land.  And he has learned that I am not all smiles
    and sweetness.  We have a very strong union and hopefully it will
    keep growing stronger.

    
    re 16
    
    Erin is four.  But honestly I fail to see what her age would have
    to do with anything.  But then again I am not a parent, and maybe
    this is an issue I just can not identify with yet.  
    
    He feels it may confuse her, which it may very well.  That is why
    he wants to keep it as is.  His stance on changing the situation
    is that we will share the same bed in front of her once we get
    married.  I object, but am willing to go along with it becuase
    it is something he feels will negatively impact Erin.  I do not
    want to hurt the child in any way.  She is very precious to me 
    even though she is not my child.  We have a great relationship.   
    
    So say in two years we do get married.  Then she will be six.
    Can a six year old comprehend what marriage means?  I doubt it.
    Isn't she going to be just as confused then?  She knows that
    mommy and daddy are never going to live together again.  
    And she only knows me in relation to John (that is that the only
    time she is with me  it is when she is with her daddy.)  So she
    relates to me as part of a unit which consists of him and I.
    When she talks of mommy and daddy, my name is included
    also.  She often will refer to us at "daddy's family".     
    
    
    This certainly sounds like a note for the blended families
    conference doesn't it??
    
    Mi
    

SAGE::GODIN 
    
.17>    Unless the two of you can work TOGETHER to iron out these issues to
.17>    your mutual satisfaction, I beg you to postpone formalizing your
.17>    relationship.  Marriage is the joining of two individuals into one
.17>    unit.  That doesn't mean that either person has to lose individual
.17>    identity, but it does mean that you're to begin working as one when it
.17>    comes to family matters.  
    
Karen,

    All I will say is that your node is aptly named...

    Re. -.18 
    
    Mi, those are encouraging words, and help to counterbalance the less
    positive feelings I was getting from your previous entries.
    
    Best of luck to all three of you.
    Karen

    re. -.20 (MAMIE::SOULE)
    
    Well, sometimes our server puts me on NUTMEG.  There are those who
    would say that's appropriate, too.
    
    Thanks for the compliment.
    Karen

    Ah, yes, furniture.  At least both our tastes run for the "eclectic".
    Good design is good design.  Of course, most of the furniture was
    furnished by the Liceas, with but a few spoons and forks and a pot
    or two courtesy of the Kanes.  (OK, I'll admit it.  Even a couple
    of dining utensils from the student union.  Lock me up.)
    
    Anyhow, my favorite piece from the Liceas was *easily* the
    International Time Recording Company Clock that's now in our dining
    room.  That wasn't the dispute.  It was the "lawn furniture" (aka
    "Butterfly Chairs") in the living room.  The covers had been replaced
    several times.  But the frames were smashed by a tree or two.  Finally,
    after much negotiation, perhaps I could keep them in the living room,
    so long as the covers were replaced with leather.
    
    Ah, a present to the rescue.  The Liceas found a source in the city
    for leather covers, just like the original.  Thought we were all
    set, but then one day one of the frames finally gave way.  Either
    too many trees or too many beers.  Take your pick.  But "sproiing".
    And that chair was history.
    
    Ever try to find *real* Butterfly Chair frames these days?  Other than
    spending your life in garage sales?  Or finding a folding frame, which
    I'm sorry to say, just don't cut the mustard with me?  Thank god a
    trip to Pittsburgh, and, amazing, a source in California for the
    original frame.  Found a local furniture store willing to "import" them
    for us, *they* even payed for the shipping.  Amazing.
    
    The end of the story?  Turns out the supplier in California is
    supplying the "original" frames to Moma, the source in NYC is supplying
    the leather covers.  MOMA is charging $430.00 *each* for what we have
    in our living room now for a fraction of the cost.  But it's still
    "lawn furniture".  Oh well.  *I* still love them.
    
    
    On bedrooms.  We've actually gotten far enough to think about beginning
    to look for a house, and recently a friend was over talking about the
    trials and tribulations of looking for a house.  I was a bit puzzled,
    since it sounded like they could afford a two bedroom house in several
    locations in the area.  Yeah, it might not be a *dream* house, but
    what first house ever is?  And of course most banks wouldn't be
    too pleased to give a mortgage to two people who weren't *gasp*
    married.
    
    Well, I assumed that they only needed a two bedroom.  One for them,
    one for guests and/or a future kid(s), and all was set.  But they
    needed a three bedroom, one for them, one for "show", and one for
    guests.  It must have been a half hour before it dawned on me what
    a "show" bedroom was.  I mean, I figured, what, they aren't the neatest
    people in the world, maybe they wanting a "living bedroom"?
    
    OK, sometimes I'm slow.  The SO's family knew what was up, *all* of
    the siblings new what was up.  But one of the *parents* didn't know
    that they weren't living together, they were *living* together.  OK,
    maybe they *would* die if they ever found out, but it seemed like
    quite the expense to take on, just to make one parent more comfortable.
    Ah, the tyranny of "secrets".
    
    Anyhow, sometimes you gottah do what you gottah do, even if it does
    mean living in some far out 'burb, instead of where you want to live.
    
    								-mr. bill

    Michelle-
    
    What a row to hoe!
    
    I know of some of your problems with the ex (I read lots of notes!). 
    But everyone is fooling themselves if you think that Erin doesn't know
    what is going on!  She knows full well that something funny is going
    on, and she will gradually mistrust both you and her father as the lie
    is continued.  I am seriously suspicious about the "bedroom" caveat in
    the agreement, I think it might be time to invest a few dollars in a
    question and answer period with another lawyer.  If the "ex" has that
    power, then I think you should have caveats dictating her social life
    as well!!!!!
    
    Anyway, back to the issue...a small self storage unit only runs about
    30-50 bucks a month, seems like a reasonable solution to me.  
    
    The other noter was right, there are other "things" going on here.
    
    Look carefully at them, you will need to have closure on them before
    the relationship can grow.
    
    Sue