Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    I think the diamond people want you to spend a couple of months salary
    on it..

    The ring I bought Wendy in 1976 has now appreciated to about �1400 -
    whether the direct translation to $ (about $2200) reflects US vs. UK
    prices, I dunno.
    
    As to how much of my salary this represents - well it ain't two months!
    
    - ���

    
    I have a different question on wedding rings.  Why is it that most
    (not all) guys expect a woman to wear a wedding band, but they
    refuse to wear one?  John and I have been arguing over this for
    the past few months.  I want him to wear a ring, but he refuses.
    The only ring he will wear would be a claddah ring which is
    ok because it is typically used as wedding ring in Ireland.
    But I would prefer him to wear a band.
    
    Also, where is it written that women have to take the man's last
    names when they get married.  I am not sure if I want to take his
    last name professionally.  I have worked hard to get where I am
    today in this company, and I dont want to change my name.
    However, the only reason I would take it is to give our kids
    the same last name instead of two names hyphenated.  I think it
    just confuses them more if they have two last names.  Any ideas
    or comments?
    
    Michele

    Re: .3
    
    They don't and it isn't.  Most married men I've seen wear a wedding
    band - certainly I did when I was married.  It meant a lot to me.
    
    As for the woman changing her name - it's simply a custom, and not
    a law.  More and more today I see women keeping their family name
    when they marry.
    
    If you're arguing about symbolic gestures like this now, you might
    want to think about what things will be like in the future.  If
    one of you "gives in", there's bound to be resentment that smoulders
    for years.
    
    					Steve

    Back to the original question...
    
    What you've asked is so general it's hard to come up with a good
    answer.  And your tastes (and that of your fiancee) may be different
    than mine.  Ditto your budget.
    
    An engagement ring is a symbol - and its true value is in what it means
    to the two of you.  The size of the gem or the elegance of the mounting
    is irrelevant.  I would suggest that you avoid something so expensive
    that it drains you financially and makes your fiancee uncomfortable.
    You also want something that she's willing to wear.
    
    When I am shopping for jewelry, I avoid the mundane kind that you
    see everywhere, tending instead to find a jeweler who carries or
    even creates their own unusual settings.  If you stay out of the chain
    stores and go poke around the smaller jewelry stores, you'll find some
    really nice things at prices that won't break you.  If you're in the
    area of Nashua, NH, I can recommend The Village Goldsmith in Amherst.
    
    You may want to consider taking your fiancee along - after all, she's
    the one who'll be wearing it!
    
    					Steve

	I am confused.  If an engagement ring is a symbol of something 
	meaningful to a couple, why does *he* buy it and *she* wear it?
	If the object is to announce to the world an intent to marry,
	why not exchange rings?  Or forgo them altogether and maybe be
	able to afford a really nice set of wedding bands?

	Engagement rings in general have always somewhat offended me
	because I perceive them as marking the woman as 'taken' while
	the man receives no such similiar 'hands off' marker.  Ditto for
	wedding bands - if both members of a couple wear them, then fine,
	but my experience has been that a man who refuses to wear a band
	while expecting his wife to wear one really *does* regard her as
	chattel.

	Leslie


	P.S.  And lest ye think I am altogether 'anti-ring', I proudly
	wore one for the over seventeen years that I was married (and so
	did my husband).  One of the nicest things was being reminded of 
	the one I loved every time I looked at it.

    While nice, engagement rings aren't necessary.  When my first husband
    and I were considering marriage, we were both in school, poor and in 
    debt.  Rather than spending money we neither had on the beautiful
    diamond I coveted, we decided to forego the engagement ring and
    put a bit more $$ into the wedding bands.  I didn't feel cheated
    (at the time) in spite of my grandmother's admonition that a man
    who couldn't give me a diamond wasn't worth marrying.  I did feel
    cheated when 10 years had passed and he still hadn't bought me that
    diamond, even though we now had the money and had paid off the debts.
    
    Oh, well, like I said, an engagement ring isn't NECESSARY, but nice.
    
    Karen
         

    The ring my wife wears is the one that my grandfather gave us
    and the one that my grandmother wore.  As much as anything, it
    reminds us of the long and happy marriage they had and their
    good wishes for us.  
    
    Ron

    
>>    Also, where is it written that women have to take the man's last
>>    names when they get married.  I am not sure if I want to take his
 
Far as I know it's not written. I kept my name and even tho' some people
insist on calling me Mrs. Newsham, it hasn't been a problem.

Jenna

    I have never been, but have heard wonderful things about "The jewelers
    square" or could be "the jewelers building" in Boston.  They supposedly
    sell rings wholesale to other jewelers, and I have been told by several
    couples that have bought their rings there, that they have saved
    hundreds of dollars.  You can also design your own setting there.

    re -1:  Do you know their location?

    
    Add one more to the group who don't believe an engagement ring is
    a necessity. 
    
    When my wife and I got married twenty years ago, we decided to take
    the money we would have spent on a ring and put it into furnishings
    etc for our house. We were no less engaged than if she were wearing
    a ring. By the way, it was much more difficult back then not to
    have an engagement ring than it is now. Both families were after
    us.
    
    However, we went to Holland this year and I bought her an engagement
    ring. We went to a diamond merchant, picked the diamond and the
    setting, and walked away with a ring that has been appraised at
    more than twice what we paid for it.
    
    Roger

    the Jeweler's Buildings are on Washington Street it Boston. Across from
    Filenes. Most anyone in that area could point you in the right
    direction. 

    My suggestion however would be to talk to your girlfriend. Many woman are
    beginning to realize the absurdity of spending so much money on a piece of
    jewelry, especially when there are more realistic/logical things that
    need to be paid for such as a down payment for a new home. How many new
    brides sit in their apartment wearing part of the deposit for a new
    house on their finger. Time to talk about priorities. The same holds
    true for the 5 grand people spend for the wedding... 
    
    Gail

    Also, in some cases it may feel right to "surprise her", but I have
    heard of women who really *didn't like* the rings they were given.
     I'd say (especially if on a shoestring budget, but maybe even if
    you're not) - browse some jewelry stores with her, get to know her
    tastes.  Just pretend you're giving her a walk down fantasy lane
    for the sake of someday...then you can surprise her later if you
    want.
    
    For me?  My taste doesn't run to diamonds as a main stone.  Sapphires?
     yes.  Diamonds?  Maybe a few on the side.  Also - there is the
    white gold / yellow gold debate.  
    
    And the only really serious "commitment ring" I ever got I picked out
    with him - it was an estate-jewelry cocktail-ring made of 10K gold with a
    nicely cut amethyst - total cost $99.  Now *that's* an inexpensive
    commitment ring (I call it commitment because it was never really
    announced as an engagement, but we knew what it meant)....but it
    didn't mean any less to me.... 
    
    -Jody
    

I was just looking through the conference for a different topic, and I noticed
that note 279 discusses alternatives to diamonds.

Rich

    re: .0 & .2
    
    Folks who are constrained by custom generally do what is epected of
    them. In some cultures, the "family name" is passed down through the
    women. 
    
    Most folks today follow the "Rule of Common Sense": Basically, do what
    is right for you. 
    
    Once, and only once, have I ever bought an ENgagement ring. Ist not
    necessary to believe all that HorseManure about "appreciation of
    value", since **MOST** women will never sell it anyway. So all that
    "value" does is to provide one more "prop" of misplacing priorities.
    (Which is more Important: A ring, or the person wearing it ?) 
    
    Mens Rings ...
    
    Traditionally, i think, most men didn't wear a ring because it cut off
    their circulation. However nowadays some *women* prefer married men,
    and it is through observation they find the men who are married
    (wearing wedding rings). 
    
    In the past, rings would either hamper a man from doing the "real" work
    of farming or fighting. 
    
    A ring on a womans finger generally meant "she was  taken" (a sign
    of bondage, like the iron ring around indentured servants necks).
    
    Today, the "rule of common sense" applies. (see above).
    
    One word I would add is this: We purchased our rings at "full price" at
    a normal jewelry store (Kays Jewelry), and I have seen similiar rings
    priced $300 - $500 HIGHER (and this is the DIScounted price!) at a "so
    callled" discount jewelry store, and with 4 carats LESS of gold weight. 
     
    

    Slight revision to .17: Rings have long been given to, and worn by,
    men, for ceremonial reasons just as valid (or invalid!) as a woman's
    wearing an engagement ring. The rings of Very Important People, like
    kings or bishops, could be handed out as tokens of favor; rings would
    be given between friends, as reminders of their friendship; and of
    course the myths about magical rings have been around for quite some
    time. So I can't accept the "men didn't wear them because they cut off
    circulation, or impeded fighting ability" argument; and for rings which
    did cause such problems, the wearers undoubtedly followed the "rule of
    common sense" and put the things away until the next ceremonial
    occasion.
    
    [Today's Safety Tip: For those of you who attach great emotional
    significance to wedding and/or engagement rings, please do *not* insist
    on never removing the ring. There have been folks who've worn their
    rings while doing various forms of hazardous work (usually electrical,
    I suspect), and have gotten themselves killed as a result; so, if
    safety, logic, or the ever-popular common sense dictates, feel free to
    remove the rings! (Just remember where you put 'em...)]
    
    -b

    I wouldn't demand a reciprocal commitment ring, but I would *almost*
    demand a reciprocal wedding band be worn, as a sign of commitment
    to the marriage.
    
    My intent would perhaps be to "cut off his circulation", (sexually
    speaking ;) to some extent.  As to some women desiring married men,
    I have heard much more often of a woman who liked a man's smile,
    or liked talking with him, and the ring on the finger would tip *her*
    off that he was "taken"....and thus the "chase" would end there.

    -Jody
    

    
    I always thought that the purpose of the ring was to impress the
    woman's friends and family with the wealth and social status of
    the groom.
    
    The wedding band diamond also has the property of repelling vampires..

    The best thing to take with you when you go hunting for an engagement
    ring is knowledge.  This will save you from straining the second
    best thing; your credit card.  It will also prevent you from being
    gouged.
    
    Diamonds first.
    
    They are graded and price according to the four "C's": Carat, Cut,
    Colour and Clarity.
    
    The Carat reflects the size of the stone and is what most people
    associate with a "nice piece of ice".  Diamond merchants capitalize on
    the public's thirst for size by jacking up the price of larger stones
    with disregard for the other factors which affect the price.  A
    full carat is about the size of a large pea.  A "point" is 1/100
    of a carat, so 50 points is equivalent to a half carat.
    
    The Cut reflects both the shape of the diamond and the stone's inherent
    "sparkle".  If the facets (the flat parts) of a diamond are not
    cut at the proper angles which enhance light dispersion, the stone
    will appear dead and look like a chunk of salt.
    
    The most popular Cut is the Brilliant cut (the round shape).  Others
    include the Marquis, the Emerald, the Kite, the Quadrillion, the
    Heart and the Pear cuts.  You'll pay more for these exotic shapes.
    
    The Colour of the stone is graded as I, II, III etc.  A colourless
    stone is rare so beware anyone selling an I grade stone for "markdown
    prices".  You can tell a decent coloured stone by placing it against
    a white background.  The stone should not discolour the white with
    a nicotine stain-yellow.
     
    You can find diamonds which have red, blue and green colours but
    they will run you well into a mortgage if they are decent stones.
    
    The Clarity of the stone reflects the amount of "other garbage" within
    the diamond.  The grades go from flawless, to VVSI1 (very, very slight
    inclusion 1), VVSI2, VSI1, VSI2, SI1, SI2 and on right down to
    Industrial grade.  The top three categories are rare and extremely
    expensive.  Settle for a VSI or SI grade if you want to eat for the
    next three years.  If your stone has too many inclusions it will be
    noticed and will also weaken the structure of the stone. 
    
    Request that the jeweller show you any diamond you may consider
    purchasing under a jeweller's microscope or magnifying glass.  Ask
    yourself the following questions:
    
         -Does the diamond have gunk resembling tar imbedded in it?
         
         -Are there any areas of the stone which don't have sparkle?
         
         -Are there any facets of the stone which appear asymetric compared
         to the others?
         
         -Does the stone have the colour of a faded newspaper?
    
    If you find a "yes" to any of the above you may want to consider another
    stone.
    
    Setting.
    
    Get a setting which has the ring part (the part in contact with
    the skin) made from 14 or 18 karat gold.  Make certain that the
    claws which hold the diamond are made from white gold or platinum.
    If the claws are yellow gold it will make the diamond look yellow.
    
    Your best bet is to find a jeweller which will sell you the diamond
    and the mount/ring seperately and integrate the two of them for
    you.  That way you can customize your selection.  Also, look for
    a shop which has a licensed gemologist on staff and make certain
    that you get a certificate of appraisal when you purchase the ring.
    
    Also, forget the investment value of the ring.  The prices on the
    street and even those at gem merchant shops are so far above the de
    Beer's market price that it will be years before you can even hope to
    get equal dollar if you wish to sell.  You're better off investing in
    pork bellies. 
    
    Kris

    	Re: .18
    
    	When I first started work, one of my colleagues had worn a wedding
    ring. This was an electronics research laboratory. Everyone knew that
    you could touch 5 volt terminals without it hurting.
    
    	He accidentally touched his ring against the terminals of a 5 volt,
    200 amp power supply, and gold is a very good conductor.
    
    	His ring instantly welded itself to the terminals, and started
    trying to dissipate a kilowatt of heat. He got his hand free when the
    gold melted.
    
    	I would advise anyone using electrical equipment not to wear a
    ring.

        Ever thought of buying at auction or from an antiques fair ? I 
        used to be a full time antiques dealer....and found that I 
        could buy rings, jewellery etc at virtually scrap value from 
        auction or antique fairs. I personally prefer antique rings to 
        modern ones ; I prefer the designs ; and the quality of antique 
        jewellery can be far superior to that found today. Most rings 
        you see today are 9 carat gold ; whereas a lot of Victorian 
        rings are 18 or 22 carat gold.This weekend I bought a gents 18 
        carat gold signet ring for only 25 pounds from my local 
        antiques fair....which I'm sure would have cost a lot more from 
        a jewellers shop.
        
        Martin Woods   (IOSG::WOODS)
        Reading
        England
        

    Have you considered have a ring made by a silversmith?
    
    When we moved in together, we had a ring made by a friend who had
    specialized in jewelry in art school. After discussing our ideas, she
    drew several sketches, and then forged a ring of intertwining gold and
    silver with granulated beads and a small ruby and a diamond chip.
    
    Now that we're to be married, she's designing a ring to fit alongside
    the other. Pauline liked the smith's first sketch. But I'm very
    finicky :-) ; she's already made several sketches and U-bands in brass
    as sample designs of my ring, followed by a redesigned complete brass band.
    
    We're interested in the design and craftmanship rather than stones. If
    you'd like to contact this jeweler (who lives in Boston), send mail.