Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    There are some notes on infertility in both mosaic::womannotes and
    terza::parenting.
    
    Bonnie

    If you two had a first child, then obviously everything WAS working at
    some point. Have you seen a doctor about the possibility that your
    wife's internals were damaged by the first childbirth? If it's not her,
    then it must be you. If you wear tight fitting underwear, this could be
    the problem. Tight fitting underwear pulls the testicles close to the
    body which has the effect of reducing the generation of sperm cells.
    The solution: wear boxer shorts. Within a month or two, this will work
    (if this is the problem). Good luck.
    
    The Doctah

    Reply .2 is serious. The testicles do not work well at body
    temperature, hence their anatomical location outside.
    
    Eric

    
    	Along the same lines as the last few, I heard on some medical
    special a few weeks back on PBS that even 1 dip in a hot tub/jacuzzi
    can kill your sperm count for a long time, due to the high water
    temperature.
    
    Paul C. 

    Thanks Bonnie for the tip.
    
    Pete

Thanks to all of you for the tips.  I have been tested, & I am ok. 
    We are now in process of testing my wife.  We'll see what happens.
    
    
    Thanks again,
    Pete

    Eric, was *your* reply serious, telling us that the Doctah's
    reply was serious?
    
      Alan

    Believe it or not, it was serious. The theory behind it is that the
    boxer shorts allow the testicles to hang lower and be therefore cooler.
    Briefs hold them closer to the body with a resulting increae in
    temperature. What the actual change in sperm count (in %) is, I don't
    know, but this idea was even discussed by Dear Abby (or Ann Landers).
    But the fact that testes work best at a lower than body temperature is
    a medical fact.
    
    There are incidents of primitive populations, where men would soak in
    hot water as a method of birth control because of the above reasons.
    Don't know how effective that was though.
    
    Eric

    In an unhindered situation, the testes are free to move up or down so
    as to regulate their heat to keep optimum sperm-making conditions. When
    held close to the body by breifs, the testes lose their ability to cool
    down, hence they produce less sperm. In addition, sperm can live at
    98.6� for only a short time. Thus infertility may result from wearing
    breifs that are too tight. Seriously.
    
    The Doctah

    Mark and Eric, you two guys missed the point of my (stab at)
    humor.
    
    Mark, I know that you were being serious in your first reply.
    
    I wasn't sure why Eric had to clarify that you were, indeed,
    serious.
    
    So, now that we've established that we've all been serious, can
    we get un-serious?
    
    Motto of the day: Take a cold bath; Make a Baby. :-)
    
      Alan

    Not too cold or they may snap back up and disappear entirely (Yow).
    :-) :-) TGIF :-) :-)
    
    Eric
    

    I used to mention this interesting fact of biology to my
    classes in the old days when I was teaching. That and the
    information about hormone levels and hair loss always amused
    the males in the class.
    
    One other related point. I had a friend who was unable to conceive
    a second child. Turns out they'd moved into a house with only
    bath tubs. When her husband rigged a shower and stopped taking
    tub baths baby #2 appeared about 10 mos later.
    
    Bonnie

    The following is from a Mennotes reader who wishes to remain anonymous.
    
    - M (comoderator, MENNOTES)
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
         My wife and I are currently experiencing difficulties conceiving
    a second child after having one.  We had a second pregnancy that
    was ectopic and caused one of my wife's tubes to rupture.  This
    happened about one year after we started trying to conceive again.
    
         We have been tested and the problem we are having seems to
    be in my wife's body.  She is taking Cli??? and will begin taking
    estrogen to try to get her body to begin working the way its supposed
    to.  She's been taking her temp and using ovulation prediction tests
    to improve our chances of conceiving.
    
         Our first pregnancy was somewhat unplanned because she conceived
    three months after going off the pill instead of the six we had
    planned.  We made love unprotected because we thought it was late
    enough in her cycle to be "safe".  Now we've found out that she
    tends to ovulate late in her cycle.  I tend to think that she conceived
    then because her cycle was closer to normal because she's just been
    on the pill recently.
    
         My wife rather resents the fact that I am not the one with
    the "problem" and feels like a failure.  She also feels that she
    has to do all this testing and temperature taking and I don't have
    to do anything is "unfair".  She also is overweight, which may be
    part of the problem, and feels pressure to lose weight.
    
         Our relationship is rather strained in part because of her
    "obsession" with getting pregnant.  I have an attitude that if we're
    going to get pregnant, we will.  We have to do whatever the doctor
    suggests, but if it doesn't happen it doesn't.  My wife gets angry
    because I'm not as devastated that we're not pregnant when her period
    starts.
    
         I also have a difficult time dealing with the fact that my
    wife can't seem to be thankful that we have one child already. 
    In fact I think that she could improve her relationship with our
    child.
    
         I was a bit offended by the comment "It worked once before,
    it will/can happen again" (Please excuse the inaccurate quote).
    Maybe its just me, but it seemed rather calous and uncaring.  I'm
    sure that you didn't mean it that way though.

    Infertility causes a lot of stress.  There are support groups to help.
    Try RESOLVE in Arlington MA.  There's also an excellent Mind-Body
    program at Deaconess Hospital in Boston that helps women cope with
    the stress of infertility (husbands are invited to two of the sessions).
    Contact Ali Domar at the Behavioral Medicine Dept.

    I was wondering - is secondary infertility the inability/difficulty in
    conceiving a second child?  I am in the middle of primary infertility.
    Or is secondary infertility a second/more serious stage of primary 
    infertility.  My husband and I have been trying for a year and a half, 
    we aren't about to panick but we are concerned.  So far all tests on
    both of us have revealed no problem.
    
    
               

    	My understanding is that "secondary infertility" is considered
    	a bit "different" than primary infertility because of the fact
    	that at least one child has already been produced (so certain
 	facts are already known about how the parents' bodies are
    	functioning.)
    
    	You're in Colorado.  Have you heard of the "Gift" program (I
    	believe it is offered at a local hospital in Colorado Springs.)
    	Another couple that I know were able to start a pregnancy recently
	with the help of that program.  Theirs was secondary infertility,
    	but you might want to check it out (in case they work with primary
    	infertility as well.)

    	This may be something that you could check into down the road
    	(come to think of it) due to the fact that *many* healthy people
    	take some time to conceive after they first start trying.
    
    	My sister and her husband made a concerted effort to conceive
    	for about a year, then just took their minds off it for awhile
    	(and within a couple of years, they had the first of their two
    	beautiful children, with the daughter following about two years
    	after their son was born.)
    
    	Sometimes it just takes some time.
    

***********************************************************************
    This is directed to the anonymous author of 353.14                 
    *******************************************************************
    
    Hi there:
    
    I read your message about the problems you and your wife are having
    and my heart goes out to you.  I know what a nightmare this situation
    can be as I am going thru this myself.  I know it really sucks to
    be sitting there minding your own business and have your wife flip
    out over something a)you have no control over;2)is not as important
    to you as it is to her.  Everyone sees what this does to her and
    tries to support her, but no one sees what this stress does to you.
    You think your wife has a problem, but as I found out, the husband
    has a problem also.  
    
    There are a few things you need to know and some others you need
    to do.  You can't fix it today, but you can make your life better.
    Here's how:
    
    1)What you need to know:
    a)By taking clomen (That's the drug yoou were talking about) and
    other hormones, she will go thru mood swings.  My  wife took clomed
    and at times was off the wall.  It could be a natural reaction,
    it could be the wrong dose of medicine.  Any minor problem (and
    with 1 little one you certainly have your share of "minor
    problems",will promptly escalate into a crisis of biblical magnatude.
    b)Are you seeing a fertility specialist or your wife's ob/gyn dr.?
    You need a specialist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    c)For some reason, my wife seems to wrap up her whole identity in
    the ability to conceive a child.  If she can't, then "what's wrong
    with me???" sets in.   I have talked to numerous other infertile
    women and they tell me the same thing.  This is not just sexist
    crap.  Women do this.  Ask them, they will tell you.  The male
    equivalentis if you were fired from a prominent, powerful job and
    unable to get work.  Sooner or later, "why won't anyone hire me?"
    sets in.  
    d) c) above causes ther to feel like a failure.  This stress sets
    off her cycle, therefore you never know when she ovulates.  So you
    beat yourself up even more.
    
    2)WHAT YOU NEED TO DO:
    a) RUN DO NOT WALK TO EAP!  YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.  They can help.
     Tell them your problem and you want a referral to a councillor
    who SPECIALIZES IN INFERTILITY.  Dec pays them big bucks.  Let them
    earn it.
    b)  Get her to go to a councillor.  If she will not go, drag her,
    carry her, bribe her, whatever it takes.  (seriously, I am not
    recommending violence, I am trying to make a point)  I dragged my
    wife and it worked great!  
    c)Contact RESOLVE, INC. for info books, support groups, etc.  If
    you want I will mail you the address.
    
    THere also is info in notes under "parenting" and "psychology".
    Since I have started those conferences, I have had numerous vaxmails
    from people going thru this.  If you would like to talk to them,
    let me know.
    
    If I can help you (or anyone else reading this) please feel free
    to call.  I promise confidentiality.
    
    
    Pete D'Olimpio
    dtn263-6078
    

    re .12
    
    The "hot tub" theory does not make sense. If it was true, the entire
    population in Japan would not exist. The Japaneses delight in taking
    steaming hot (and I DO mean HOT) soak in a wooden tub called the
    'ofuro', after first cleaning themselves throughoutly...
    
    The sperm count probably goes right on back up after a very short time;
    which means that using hot tub as a form of contraceptive is out of the
    question.  
    
    TM

    re: .20
    
    This theory about 'Hot tubs' may be rooted in the habit of a <remote
    islands natives> habit of sitting with their testacles in a cup
    of VERY hot water a few minutes before having intercourse. My guess
    is that the water would be about 150 degrees Fahernheit.
    
    Hot Tubs, which I have observered at hotels, tend to be about 100
    degrees F, which is the "ideal temperature" for prolonging sperm
    life.
    
    In your reply (.20); how long after sitting in the 'ofuro' would
    a Japanese male make love ?

        
        
    

    Um, Bob, where did you get the figure of 100 degrees being ideal?
    
    To my knowledge, the testicles are in the scrotal sac outside
    of the body to keep them cooler than the normal body temperature
    of 98.6. i.e. even 'normal body temperature' will impair sperm
    growth and motility.
    
    
    Bonnie

    re: .22
    
    Hmmm "From a poor memory ?". Maybe, if someone really needs to know,
    then the certain someone can look it up for us, then we'll all know.
    
    bob
    

    A magazine I picked up recently (_Ladies Home Journal_ maybe?) had an
    article about infections that cause or contribute to infertility,
    menstrual cramps, and other problems of the reproductive system.  A few
    weeks on tetracycline and the problem cleared up.

    re .22,
    
    In addition to what Bonnie said, isn't it also true that any heating,
    or cooling immediately before intercourse would have little effect,
    because the sperm is already in the semen that is in the prostate, and
    you would actually be affecting sperm that would get into the semen
    sometime later.  Is this true?  I'll bet Bonnie knows.
    
    Bob

    Bob is correct. Heating affects the production of spermatozoa not
    the already formed cells in the semen.
    
    Bonnie