Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    I'll go first. 
    
    I don't know if I could ever pull the plug on one of my children,
    although I cannot really fault this man for what he did.  As the
    iincident was described, it seems to me that the man was letting
    God make the decision as to his sons future.  I believe that the
    man truely loved his son and was doing what he thout best.  Incidently
    the man is being charged with murder.  This is a situation which
    I can't call because it is just too hard.  I do think however, that
    you have to closely examine the mans intentions and what was in
    his heart.  I truely believe that this man was doing what was best
    for his son as opposed to what was best for him.  
    
    All I can do is just thank the Lord that I have not been put in
    this situation and if I ever find myself in this situation have
    him show me the way.  My heart and prayers go out to the man, his
    son and his family.  
                                             Peace Be With You All
    
                                             Mike
    
    P.S.  I am going to go home and give my kids and my wife a big hug!
    

    A number of years ago, when my youngest son was 2.5 years old, (he
    is now 11 and is fine, thanks) he underwent open heart surgery.
    There are some tough things you have to do to your kids.  He was
    in a 'pediatric coronary ICU' with about 5 or 6 other kids.  Some
    of them didn't make it.  They come out wrapped from chin to crotch
    in bandages with plumbing you wouldn't believe.  They are sat up
    in bed the next day and a respiratory tech. thumps them soundly
    on the back.  They get out of bed the next day.  Walk around the
    block in 3 days.  Go home in a week.
    
    Or not.
    
    I can only imagine what a desperate measure was undertaken in Chicago.
    The fact that the life support was removed and the child died is
    an indication to me of the futility of the efforts made by the hospital
    to maintain life.  Without having been there I won't judge against the
    man. 
                                      

    I heard the story on NPR.  I suspect that the murder charge depends
    on the Illinois statute which defines death.  Not all states determin
    death by brain function.  The news report that I heard said that
    the kid was brain dead.  Obviously, because the child lasted for
    30 minutes after the respirator was disconnected that there was
    some residual brain activity in the brain stem, but obviously not
    enough to sustain life.  
    
    I feel for the guy.  I asked myself whether I would or could do
    what he did which he did out of love.  I don't know.  It makes me
    shudder to even postulate on such a topic.  I hope he gets off.
    
    Craig

    	I sympathize with the father - and would not condemn him for
    what he did. The methods may be questionable, but emotional distress
    can drive one to such a point.
    
    	My only reservation would be a concern that there may be a
    possibility of his son's recovery. If recovery was definitely ruled
    out, I would concurr with him. I can't say if I might do the same
    in the same situation - it's the type of thing one would have to
    experience before making such a judgement.
    
    	It's one thing to kill someone who is living, another to stop
    physical existence of one who is not able to live. It would be less
    questionable if it were an elderly person I suspect.
    
    	The law ? That's for the judge and/or jury to decide.
    
    	Guy B.
    
    

    Guy,
    
          After seeing your saying after your name, I'm sure that the
    teardrops this man cried were such teardrops.
    
                                                              Mike

    What is really sad is that given another hospital and/or another
    doctor this man would not have had to go through this terrible ordeal.
    
    Life Support machinery, and artificial feeding mechanisms are being
    discontinued all over the country without fanfare and fuss.  This
    is not euthanasia...this is simply allowing your higher power's
    will be done.

One thing they said on the news was that he and his wife had an
appointment with a lawyer later in the week to get the court to order
the machines to turned off.  That's the part I can't understand.


john

    Part of the story I heard was that he disconnected it once before back
    in December, but a nurse there reconnected it immediately. It a
    horrible decision to have to make, but considering that the child was
    in the coma since August, there appeared to be no hope of him ever
    recovering.
    
    I believe that the major problem legally was the laws in Illinois which
    does not allow life support to be disconnected, even if the patient
    leaves a "living will".
    
    According to the news last night, the man was released on bond. It what
    I have read so far is true in the news about the case, I hope he
    doesn't have to go to trial.
    
    Eric

    My mother was on lift support systems for a couple of months. She
    had developed bronchial and viral pnemonia. Her lungs were literally
    rotting away. She was kept on a life support system until her lungs
    burst. The fact that they had to progressively  increase her morphine
    until she died made it more tragic. I made a solemn promise never
    to let that happen again. I do not care about a specific state law
    crimializing the act. I feel very deeply for the man. He obviously
    loved his son. He may have felt compelled to free him from the
    technical wizardry the is modern medicine.  
    

    Rick
    

    
    
    I think it is harder on everyone, the parents, the child, his brothers
    and sisters, to go on each day with him in a coma, slowly drifting
    further and further away from them. If he was brain dead already,
    then there must have been no chance of him ever recovering. Why
    keep him in that state forever? I never did see any point in that...
    
    

		
    	Having to 'hold' my younger sister and brother together
    	emotionally was hard enough, but to explain/justify the
    	extreme measures to prolong the inevitable was extruciating.
    	From the day a loved one dies, we begin to recover and go on.
    	Medical science has found ways to impede the death process
    	with no possibility of recovery - only a slower more painful
    	death. Some residue from this experience has been the tremendous
    	guilt associated with the relief that comes at the end of these
    	deaths. You can't help but want the pain (theirs and yours) to stop....

    
    	Rick

    RE: .6
    
    >>Life Support machinery, and artificial feeding mechanisms are
    >>being discontinued....
      
    I do not feel that these two means for keeping an individual alive
    should be lumped together.  While it can be argued that an individual
    whose lungs won't breathe or whose heart won't beat should be allowed
    to die, denying someone food and water is wrong.  A newborn infant
    has no means for receiving nourishment on its own; it is provided
    by others.  Similarly, a severely handicapped person, who is
    nonetheless conscious, is not denied food.  Why then should a comatose
    individual not be fed?  How different is a naso-gastral feeding
    tube used on a comatose individual than an I.V. used on one who
    has just undergone major surgery of the esophagus?
    
                      
    

    My comment did not lump together the two processes, it merely stated
    a fact. 
    
    There are hospitals and doctors that are very quietly allowing nature
    to take its course when there is a determination that there is no
    hope for recovery.
    
    It does not seem fair that some people have to go through the courts
    or break the law to allow the inevitable to happen.
    
    But in my opinion, there is little difference in supplying a person
    with oxygen then there is in providing food.  Both artificial
    procedures have a place in medicine...but many of us feel that they
    should not be used to sustain the life of a person that will never
    be able to function in anything better then a vegative state.  
    
    I think that this is very different then euthanasia....nothing is
    introduced to bring about death.  It occurs naturally.

    Mike - 
    
    	I agree wholeheartedly - wouldn't trade places with him for
    all the tea in China.
    
    	I personally agree with his decision, but I don't honestly know
    if I would have the courage to act as he did.
    
    	Guy 
    

    my heart bleeds for this poor man.  i hope he does not go to trial.

    I totally support the man's decision and see no crime in what he
    has done.  I know I would want to do the same thing and hope that
    I could, whether it was my child, my sibling or my parent.