Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    
    If he clearly sees that what he is doing is hurting you and
    he continues to do it is he really worth staying with?

    
>    I'm finding it hard to forgive him and to trust him as much as I
>    should be trusting him in a solid relationship.  Other than this,
>    our relationship couldn't be better.

    Doesn't sound like much of a relationship to me.  As far as I am
    concerned, without trust, you have nothing.
    
    				Steve

    That weekend trip sounds fishy to me.
    
    Do you trust him???
    
    I think there's a lack of communication on his part and I think
    he's being insensitive to your feelings.  Have you met this person?
    
    How would he feel if the situation was inflicted upon him?
    
    I'm not saying that he can't have any friends of the opposite sex.
    I have several friends of the opposite sex and my fiance accepts
    that.  He is their friend and they are his also!
    
    But, if I had a friend that was "in love" with me, that would make
    things pretty difficult.  Being friends with someone who is in love
    with you will *never* work.  I've tried it *several* times during
    my life.
    
    When I first met my fiance I was very good friends with someone
    who was "in love" with me.  This did nothing but cause the other
    person misery.  My SO could deal with it but he felt *very*
    uncomfortable knowing that I was going to be going out with my friend
    on a Saturday night instead of him.  Once we became "exclusive",
    I realized I had a choice to make.  Painful as it was, I chose to
    break off my friendship with this person.  I felt it was necessary
    to do that because this friend of mine wasn't dating anyone and
    revolved his entire life around our occasional outings.

    If this girl is calling him all the time and says she's in love
    with him, how can this NOT cause problems???
    
    I think your boyfriend needs to make a choice.

    
    Take care of yourself, 
    Denise
    

    
    This woman is seeing someone - has been for 2-3 months now.
    I've met her and her friend on my boyfriend's suggestion and
    also to see if that would help my feelings any.  Unfortunately,
    I was extremely uncomfortable with the meeting and it only
    seemed to add fuel to the flame.
    
    She supposedly goes away on weekends with this new boyfriend of
    hers- but why does she call my boyfriend up during times that she
    should be her boyfriend?  She may be waiting in the wings - although
    my boyfriend assures me that she is happy with her boyfriend and
    that she is not waiting in the wings at all.  It seems that this
    woman wants to settle down and have kids right away due to the
    biological clock which supposedly ticks away during women's mid-30's
    She is 32 - 5yrs older than my boyfriend.
    
    My boyfriend wants me to become friends with her because he really
    feels that if she and I got to know each other and I talked to her
    about this whole thing - I would feel better about it.
    
    Does anyone think I should try this?
    
    Actually, the problem is not with her directly, but the problem
    is between my boyfriend and myself.
    
    My boyfriend's friends seem to trust him till they're 
    'blue in the face'.  Should I?
    
    Do I have some valid concerns?
    
    Anon.
    

    
    In the previous note 263.4 - when I mentioned that this woman 
    wanted to settle down right away, I meant to say that my boyfriend
    told me this and all the other stats that wend along with this.
    He said he wouldn't be surprised if she got married in the next
    year or two.
    
    Anon.
    

I can't blame you for not trusting your SO.  He committed a serious breach of 
trust by not telling you that he was going away for the weekend with another 
woman.  Then, he expects you to trust him enough to believe that even though he 
was away for the weekend with a woman who is in love with him, and they were in 
the same room (does this mean same bed? are you supposed to believe that they 
were twin beds?), Nothing Happened.  Well, then, exactly what is his definition 
of Nothing?  Does nothing mean that they didn't lie in one another's arms all 
night; does it mean they didn't kiss; or does it simply mean that they didn't 
have sexual intercourse?  And your change of relationship into a committed 
relationship is definitely enough of a reason to warrant his change in plans, 
no matter how far in advance they were made, and for whatever reason, to be 
alone for a weekend with her.

How is it that he managed to tell you about it in the long run?

She wanted more than friendship then, and judging by the frequent phone calls, 
she wants more than friendship, now.  He seems to defend her rights over yours; 
seems to be more careful with her feelings than with yours.  You've got plenty 
of reason to worry if you stay with him (and it sounds as if you are planning 
to stay) under those circumstances, and your feelings of not being able to 
trust him have a valid reality base.  He's lied to you about her before; what's 
to keep him from lying to you about her again?

And yet, to hear it from his side, I bet that your rights to those feelings are 
somehow threatened, aren't they?  Like, you're too suspicious, or wrong, for 
doubting him, and if you loved him you'd trust him, and bla bla, woof woof...

Good Luck...

    By any chance did you get a chance to watch Oprah yesterday???
    
    It was about men with other women.
    
    
    I'm afraid that he would be the perfect definition of "slime" had
    he been on this show.
    
    I'm sorry if I seem to be a little strong on this but it DOES seem
    that he puts his feelings and this other woman's feelings above
    yours.
    
    How would he feel in someone was in love with you, you wanted to
    be friends AND wanted your boyfriend to be friends also?
    
    What's going to happen if this girl gets very depressed in the future.
    Will he be running to her to help her out?  Even though he knows
    what it will do to you???
    
    I think he should be treating you how he wants to be treated himself.
    Do you think he would like this to happen to him?
    
    If I were you, I'd tell this guy to make a choice.  I'd tell him
    that he CAN'T HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!!
    
    That's just my opinion...........
    

    .3, .6, and .7, are right.  You should not have to put up with this
    nonsense in an exclusive relationship.  If you are his primary
    relationship, he should not want to risk his relationship with you
    by spending so much time with this woman.  I'm afraid that you are
    in danger of being used and hurt, badly.  If you can't get him to
    stop spending so much time with her (in person & on the phone) I
    think you should "start looking".  
    
    Lorna
    

    re: last  
    
    I agree in full. This man is saying he doesn't understand why you
    are hurt by his "friendship". Bull! What a crock. Even if he really
    didn't *understand* he should take actions to stop you from hurting,
    and that action would be to cut all ties with this other woman.
    
    I can understand how you would want to try and be understanding
    and forgiving of him, well to hell with it, you owe it to YOU to
    be happy. Your efforts to keep him happy (by allowing this
    relationship) are obviously making you miserable. 

    I read the base note and thought "YUK" I've seen this picture once
    to often. It's been noted before but, without trust in a
    relationship, why bother. Even if he broke off ties with this woman
    now, it'll take quite a while to build the trust in the relationship!
    
    Gail
    

    I'm not going to play in your pity party, and I wont listen to
    your victim tape.  What I will tell you is to get on with your
    life and go on to the next thing.  Your letting this run you and
    your probably getting it all over everyone around you.
    
    You dont need to put up with this middle of the road bulls#!t, if
    he cant be clear then you should be.  
    
    Take some action in your life and get on with it.
    
    Jim

    
    
    What exactly did you mean, Jim, by 'get on with your life'?
    Do you mean that I should find another person?
    
    I have been playing victim the last months - if I want things to
    work - I need to work things out within myself as I'm working
    problems out with my boyfriend.
    
    Some folks have been saying that I'd never forget the incidents
    that were hurtful and that memories of them would reoccur
    once in a while even after years - perhaps... we wouldn't be
    human if we could totally block out certain memoried - especially
    painful ones...but only time will tell what happens here.
    
    Thanks for your input!
    
    Anon.
    

    
    
    OOPS!  'plutonic' - I meant 'platonic'!!!!
    
    Anon.
    

    
    Jim - must you be so HARSH???
    
    "I'm not going to play in your pity party, and I won't listen to
    your victim tape".  
    
    It's HARD to leave someone you love.  Have *you* ever left someone
    you loved?  If so, was it EASY?  Did you even TRY to work things
    out?
    
    At least she is.
    
    Why is it that you're so BITTER???
    

    Furthermore, if this note is bothering you so much, DON'T READ IT!!!
    

This isn't my place, and maybe I'll get barbed for entering this.

But I'm going to do it anyway.

In my perception, Jim is offering his words in his own way to help encourage 
strength, not what might be perceived as "weakness and leaning".  Some schools 
of thought teach that as soon as sympathy ends and reality is slapped on to the 
face, that this is when the person actually starts to recover from the 
situation.

It is, as I have recently learned, a natural part of the healing process to go 
through a stage of pity, however, for the Self.  Not good when it comes to 
getting STUCK there, though.  I think that the author of the basenote (and I am 
sorry to have temporarily drawn a blank on your name) has been feeling pain 
over the situation of her lover spending the weekend with another for a while, 
but seeing as how the relationship is continuing, she is unable to close the 
wound because she's still wide open to him.  Therefore, the pain is still as 
fresh as it was when it first happened, and this is why I figure Jim said what 
he said about "play(ing) into (the) pity party, and...listen(ing) to (the) 
victim tape".  He probably thinks that this has gone on long enough.  We each 
go through the processes of learning and healing in our own time, though, and 
none of us is required to live up to another's speed.

[Anon]...

>                      -< Do you mean find someone else? >-

With the beating your self-esteem has taken over this, you might have to find 
yourself again, first.  I think it's those parts of yourself that are missing 
that are making it hard for you to act in your own best interest, rather than 
always trying to please your lover by accepting whatever he dishes out.

>I have been playing victim the last months - if I want things to
>work - I need to work things out within myself as I'm working
>problems out with my boyfriend.

In your mind right now, is working things out *without* him, an option? If you 
are closed to that option, then now is not the time for anyone to tell you to 
leave him behind.  That's a conclusion you'll have to come to for yourself.  I 
think you should take some time away from him, but I'm not you.

>- perhaps... we wouldn't be
>human if we could totally block out certain memories - especially
>painful ones...but only time will tell what happens here.
    
I feel very good in that I have found someone who chooses not to put me through 
the kinds of things you have encountered, in the first place.

With caring
Meredith

    [Anon],
    	He has the best of both worlds right now. He has you, dying
    inside because you love him and want this to work. He has her, an
    ego boosting female who (it appears) would run to him in a second.
    Why should he make a decision???? Make it for him. You can tell
    him that you are uncomfortable and have decided that he can have
    her......heh,heh. Guess who's foot the shoe is on now?? You will
    feel better for it and you will have control of at least 50% of
    the relationship. Chin up. You can do it.
    
    Ken

    
    I've read all of this note and just felt compelled to participate.
    
    [Anon.], if this other friend was a guy would you feel as threatened?
    Are you sitting home letting your mind conjur up all sorts of horible
    thoughts?
    Did he not mention the "weekend" because he was afraid of your
    reaction?
    Does he feel as "exclusive" as you do?
    
    Remember, he did arrange a meeting and wants you both to become
    friends. Would he really want you to become friends with someone
    he is fooling around with?? I think not, unless he's really got
    a screw lose.
    
    Next time the friend calls, why don't you talk to her instead and
    invite her to tea and crumpets or something like that and tell her
    how threatened you feel. Chances are you'll become good friends
    and your fears will be put to rest. I have only a few real true
    friends, and if given a choice, would probably choose in their favor
    if given an ultimatum. 

    I would guess he's not real pleased about being in the middle of
    you two either. Maybe you're not the only one "suffering".
        
    If you really want the guy you are with, put away the green eyes
    and believe him. Become friends with the "other" woman, or find
    ways to occupy your guy so he forgets about her. (that'll be tough
    if they're really friends). I think you may find yourself the odd
    person out if you don't get over your anxieties and join the party.

    I don't want to come accross as crass or insensitive, but you seem
    to be wallowing in pity instead of rising above the situation,
    understanding the alternatives and taking charge. Remember, you
    control your own life, set a course and do what's right for you.
    
    Good luck
    
    JMB
    

    
    
    I agree with note 263.19.  If one wants to work it out, then
    one must have a positive attitude.
    
    However, it's always hard to forget and forgive when one feels
    'cheated' or a trust is jeopardized.
    
    One never forgets completely...wouldn't becoming friends with that
    woman only serve as a constant reminder of what he lied about?
    
    

    
    At the risk of using too many anectodes (sp?), I would say the time
    does heal all wounds. Think about other unpleasant experiences that
    you've had and see how they affect you today.
    
    The key is to look ahead, always try to make tomorrow better than
    today and think positive. Using this lingering thought of dishonesty and
    lying may just be a crutch, or a hammer that you may want to use
    later if something doesn't go your way. Given you situation today,
    you may just need a crutch, but only until you "get well" again.
    
    This weekend incident is "water over the dam", so "don't cry over
    spilled milk" and move on. Being an eternal optimist myself, I'd
    much rather have a half full glass of beer than a half empty one.
    
    Try to make a new friend, strengthen your relationship with your
    partner and make life wonderful again.
    
   JMB
    

    Boy have I been away from this place
    too long!!!
    
    What ever happend with this situation?
    
                        cj *->