Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Well, I am a single woman, and I have many single woman friends,
    and I dont totally agree with the surveys that say single women
    are happiest.  Many of my friends would rather have someone to share
    their lives with, rather than alone.  Maybe these single happy women
    are *not* the norm.  Any other single women out there agree ????
    
    Kim

    
    WELL.. just my .02 worth.
    
    i hear all the horror stories my friends tell me, and hear about
    other marriages, i dont think i would want to be married.
    
    

    It seems to me that the fact that the panel was comprised of all
    single women would skew the so-called findings. Besides, can you
    imagine them getting up there and saying that their chosen life-style
    has made them miserable? 
    
    Re: .2	There may be a lot of horror stories but think about
    		it; why do so many people still do it? Are we all 
    		masochists? Hmmm, forget that! Are we all dumb?
    		Forget that too! I got it, misery loves company.
    		And wouldn't you be much happier in  your misery if
    		you had someone to blame it one, er I mean share it
    		with?

    re: .1 
    
        The basenote only said that single women comprised the group
    which scored highest when happiness was measured over a number of
    groups.  It still could be true that most single women are not happy.
    If that is the case it would be sad that more than half of the
    happiest group of people weren't happy.
    
        Also single doesn't mean outside of a relationship.

    
    re: .3
    
        The base note indicates that the panel was organized because
    surveys have shown that single women appear to be the happiest group.
    It didn't say that the surveys were taken by the single women on the
    show. (But of course it doesn't exclude the possibility either.)
    
    ASP

    RE.3
    
    	please dont put words in my mouth.
    
    all i'm saying is my friends always say to me, dont get ever get
    married...ok i wont. ;^)
    
    
    besides i'm perfectly happy the way i am... single... 
    		so there ;^)
    
    		wendy .
    

    RE.0
    
    As I recall, these findings are not new.  I have heard this before.
    What I was looking for when I entered this note was opnions as to
    why successful single women and married men are happier than married
    women and single men.  My wife admits that she might be happier
    living alone while I can't imagine living alone.
    
    Living alone in not to be construed to include not having a
    relationship with someone.

    I find it hard to imagine married men being amongst the happiest
    when there are so few that I have heard (other than the ones
    closes to me and the women in my life) say anything good about
    being married. They always have such shots they take at being
    "happily" married, ie. "She's happy, I'm married".
    
    As far as single women, I hate to think the word "successful"
    is the keyword in that survey, but perhaps it is.  It does
    suggest that unsucessful women cannot find happiness without
    male support.
    
    Myself, I have been an unhappy single woman, who reprogrammed
    myself into being a very happy single woman, and am dreadfully
    afraid I may never be able to adapt to being married (or commmitted
    at any rate).  And believe, I am *not* very successful according
    to their terms.  I am learning that an SO doesn't necessarily
    mean happiness. Happiness has to come from within, then be *shared*
    with an SO.
    
                                       cj   *->
    

    Re: .7
    
         All the happily married guys I know don't talk about it much.
    They just walk around smiling all the time.
    
                                   Greg
    

    re.0 one thing that you will not learn from this type of survey
    is that these "liberated-single-female-types" will not confess to
    anyone really easily is yes they are single, oh but that guy that
    has been living with you the past four or so years who is he?????
    Single by todays definition merely means no marriage contract.
    
    Sad to say but as .7 pointed out most women cannot find happiness
    alone. They need a man in their life to be happy/miserable (same
    thing). I don't know when or how it happened but at some point in
    our culture the roles have clearly been established, men provide
    happiness for women, that don't appreciate it.

    re.0	Stupid generalizations.  
    
    tim

    re: .9
    
    >>  Single by todays definition merely means no marriage contract.
    
    	What did it mean by yesterday's definition???  I'm single, but
    	I'm happily involved with someone so I'm NOT available.  These
    	are two different concepts here.  Just because I'm involved
    	doesn't mean that I'm not single.  It does, however, mean that
    	I'm not available.
    
    >>  They need a man in their life to be happy/miserable (same
    >>  thing).
    
    	I doubt the majority of people would say that being happy and 
    	being miserable is the same thing.
    
    	As was correctly pointed out earlier by cj, happiness comes 
    	from within.  So does misery.  No one else besides you can 
    	MAKE you happy.  Nor can someone MAKE you miserable.  There 
    	are people who contribute negatively and positively to your
    	life, but it's up to YOU to decide how much influence they 
    	have within your life.  To *make* someone happy or to depend 
    	on someone else to *make* you happy implies the relinquishing 
    	of responsibility for your own life.
    
    >>  I don't know when or how it happened but at some point in
    >>  our culture the roles have clearly been established, men provide
    >>  happiness for women, that don't appreciate it.
    
    	Did you forget to leave a happy face off this one???  *8-)
    
    						Carla
    

    I'll admit first off that I don't have the cubes to step in and
    debate who is happiest and why, mostly from the standpoint that
    I am poorly informed on the subject.  But reading these replies
    I can't help wondering who the heck did these surveys??
                                        
    This is digressing from the base note, perhaps, and I think the
    subject should be better discussed as it's own topic, if there 
    isn't one already.
    
    But just how accurate are these surveys??  From my endless supply
    of cynicism, I have some serious doubts about some of these findings.
    Personally, I have never been consulted for any survey, with the
    exception of the surveys done by T.V. stations (sponsors), asking
    which shows you like to watch, etc, etc.  Neither has anyone I know 
    (to my knowledge).    
    
    So I guess the point would be:  Do all the people debating/discussing
    this topic feel that they are discussing factual results???
    
    Or, do you feel this is irrelevant???

    Re .9  Normally would nod nod nod ya ya, changin some ways....
          >Men provide happiness for women, that don't appreciate it.
           Oh,.... Women DO appreciate it, just don't let a man know
           how much. Because.....
             A poor woman once told me "Most women are nuthin without
           a man." Sad to hear. Hard for a spoiled Decie to believe.
             My favorite Donahue of course was "Beautiful Women who
           can't get dates." Now THAT's Discrimination! Poor things.
    
                                                        Russ

    re.11
    I have come across a few people lately who feel that having an
    SO means no longer single.  The last SO I had even asked me a
    question along the lines of "Well when you were still single..?"
    I made it clear that I *am* single, he came back with "Well,
    you know, before me...".  And had a similar conversation with
    someone else while I was still seeing that man.  I guess I see
    things as black or white, you're married or your not, thus being
    single.  *Available* would be more appropriate.
    
    What is a person that is separated, awaiting a divorce, considered?
    Married? or Single? 
    
    (Carla, I have to ask, what is the asterik above your smiley faces?
      do you have curly hair?     *8-)  )
                                  ^
    

    It would take a very special man in my life before I ever give up
    being single..............and I don't see one coming for years...

    re: .14 (cj)
    
    	I used to have curly hair, ergo --> *8-)
    
    	Now it's a little spikier, ergo my new icon -->  =8*)
    	(Don't know why I use a * for a nose, someone asked me
    	if someone punched it in.  It's just more original than
    	a - for a nose.)
    
    	And it makes me HAPPY to express myself with such a
    	singular gesture...  (Hee Hee)
    
    					Carla

    I suppose I have raised th old major debate once more.
    I suppose it will go on forever.
    Women have "relationships" men you_know_what - around.
    
    Please don't tell me when to be funny i.e. insert smiley face here.
    
    I am not one of the many two faced lying noters that calls people
    jerk, and justifies it with a "smile".
    

    
    	*Of course* single women and married men are the happiest ....
    	..... they have each other.   ;-)
    
    	Jim.
    

re: 18 
    
    That was the best laugh I've had all day!!
    
    But there could be some truth to it......
    
    If single women and married men have each other, then they might
    just have the best of both worlds.
    
    She:
         Doesn't have to do his laundry...
         Doesn't have to wake-up to him EVERY day...
         Doesn't have to worry about when he's coming home...
        Doesn't care if he squanders his money on other women...
         Doesn't have to tell him if 
                           she squanders her money on other men...
         and probably lots more...
    
    He:
         Doesn't have to help do the dishes to impress her...
         Doesn't have to wake-up to her EVERY day...
         Doesn't have listen to her nag about
                 picking up the kids at the dentist...
         Doesn't have to tell her why he's late, she knows...
         Doesn't have to tell her what he's done with his money...
         ........... she knows that, too..........                
         and probably lots more...
                         
    

Who's happiest? A married couple where both have the maturity to have
mutual respect, trust, sensitivity for each other's needs and to
be willing to make their relationship grow. It's just my opinion,
but I think both the man and the woman would be very happy in this situation
overall. I know I would, because I know what it can be like.
I was married once, and it unfortunately did not work out, however, I
felt it would certainly be worse if it were over and it was. Sometimes
you don't know how good something really is until it's gone.
                
I think few people realize the importance about having a mature outlook
toward the other party in a relationship and how important that is to foster
love to grow. Most difficulties in relationships can be overcome by a simple
matter of give and take where both parties participate. I think few people
discover this because they give up. But actually, overcoming the valleys
adds a new dimension to a relationship improving it even further.

I believe this is some of the philosphy behind a very old, but true
saying that "A marraige becomes sweeter with years." It can become
sweeter or bitter at the choosing of the involved parties.

Thats the end of my sermon, but I believe every word of it and I am
definitely for it!

RE: .0
>    as though Phil had single women on his panel to discuss the result
>    of surveys on who are the happiest people in the world.  Result:
    
    Hmm the single women spoke for the married women ? I wonder how
    the married women would view the single women ?
                                                                    
>    Happest are Single Women and Married Men.  They also tend to live
>    longer.  A real delima.                 
    
    I dopn't recall if my former physician is correct or not, but my
    family doctor told me that women who bear children have a shorter
    life span than those who don't; in that child bearing puts an enormous
    strain on the mothers body. Assuming the aggregate of statistics
    have been compiled over the past 50 years of mortality rate; its
    only been very recent that "some" married women chose to be childless,
    and that "some" single women chose to have bear children.
    
    I would tend to think that the married womens foreshortened mortality
    is based more on her role as a child-bearer/home-slave rather than
    on her choice to be married.
    
    Conversely, their is  a growing tendency for single womens mortality
    rates to worsen, as more and more career women tend to emulate their
    male counterparts. The increased mortality being due to high blood
    pressure, smoking, lasciviosness, poor health habits, etc.
                                                        
>    From what my wife recalls, single women are the happiest when
>    successful and don't need a man to provide a sence of security.
    
    It would be interesting to ask the married women : "What sense
    of security do they feel today (with the divorce rate being about
    50% and still climbing ?". Especially since there are now so many
    more women in the business place to provide competition for their
    "at work" husbands ? 
   
                                        
                                        
>    Married women view husbands as someone who needs a lot of care
>    and feeding and dosen't add much to the happiness of the woman.
    
    Is this from the married women or the single women ? I can't speak
    for the married women, but it has never been the case in any of
    my married experiences; and is only partially true now because that
    is her primary role in my life- be my nurturer and helpmate (which
    by the way is a two-way street in that we support each other).
                                               
>    Married men are happy because they are taken care of and feel important
>    because they are needed.  After all mom used to take care of us and
>    tell us how brave and strong we were. 

    Apparently you are not familiar with "abusive moms". Some would
    have been better off without their natural "mom"

 >    I would like to hear other opninons.     
    
    Well, this was one.
    
    Bob
    

    Re .21  (Bob)
    
    Does the higher mortality rate by married women who are mothers
    take into account the women who die as a direct result of becoming
    mothers (complications of pregnancy and childbirth)?  That alone
    could account for it, all other things being equal, as childbirth
    is a fairly risky activity.
    
    Elizabeth

Well, for what it's worth. The trivia section of the paper I read reports
that the busiest people are the happiest people. It goes on to say that
the more you think about how happy your are the less happy you get.
I tend to agree with all this. I'm much happier when I'm busy than
when I go thru spirts of couch-potatoedom.

Jenna

    re .21
    
    It's not having children that shortens women's lives, it's raising them!