Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Are you trying to start something here?
    If so....CAN IT! If not, please elaborate.
    Total Trash!(the movie(if you want to call it a movie))

    The movie had its points, but dealing with male sexuality in a
    "sensitive" way was certainly not among them.  Basically, there
    were two ways the subject would come up.  Either a man would be
    raping one of the women, or, once, he tried to but "couldn't get
    it up" and was ridiculed by the women.
    
    				Steve

    
    The series of books is not exactly brimming over with sensitivity,
    either.  While I'd be the first to agree that Hollywood is not exactly
    adroit at handling anything with sensitivity (a lot of the time)
    they didn't have much to start with, either.  I don't know if Jean
    Auel's down on men, but she doesn't have a lot of good things to
    say about them here.
    
    DFW

    
    Mr. Faulkner is referring to the movie adaptaion of Jean M. Auel's
    novel Clan of the Cave Bear.
    
    Despite the degree to which Kerry usually gets on my nerves, he's
    got a point this time.
    
    DFW

    Maybe he's trying to say he finds Darryl Hannah attractive :-).
    

    wasnt it a certain religious group that came around and changed
    all that? i thought that was where the term missionary position
    came from.
    
    i dont know how it could have been portryed "nicely",but in all
    likelyhood the men and women from that era took their cue from watching
    animals.i dont know too amny animals that have a predilection for
    privacy or asked if they could first.
    
    

    re .7, and privacy and asking if you can first, are both certainly
    important :-).
    

    re.8 not when your in lust...    ;^)

    
    Re .7
    
            If thats the case Ill second it, but knowing Kerry
            I have a tendency to think it goes beyond that.

    Actually, in all three books of the "Earth Children Series" - "The
    Clan of the Cave Bear", "Valley of the Horses" and "The Mammoth
    Hunters" - the sexual mores of all the cave-people are quite
    graphically described. In particular, the passages describing the 
    lovemaking between Ayla and her lover, Jondalar, are, at the same 
    time, both sensitive and erotic.
    
    Indeed, the book clubs that offered these titles had a reader-
    discretion notice: "Note that this book contains explicit sexual
    material". I do have to admit that reading those books had, how
    shall I say it, a noticeable effect on me.
    
      Alan 

    re.13 as usual noting is not a discussion with a large group of
    people, but rather direct assaults on individuals, why?
    
    	I would like to state that I catagorically was/am disgusted
    with the movie clan of .... the movie did not need any sex of any
    type to make the point that it did. It did however make "monkeys"
    out of men. If women are bent on proving their equality to men I
    for one would like to apologize.....they should seek superiorty
    over men.

>    The movie had its points, but dealing with male sexuality in a
>    "sensitive" way was certainly not among them.  Basically, there
>    were two ways the subject would come up.  Either a man would be
>    raping one of the women, or, once, he tried to but "couldn't get
>    it up" and was ridiculed by the women.
    
>    				Steve

	Give me a break. If I started my .0 by saying this is bete noir
	would you have known then?

BUSY::KLEINBERGER "Have a MAXCIMum Day!"              8 lines  16-NOV-1987 13:02

>.0>    anyone see that ?
>    
<.0>    very sensitive the way they depicted men's sexual sensitivity.
<    
<.0>    I for one, thought it was kind of special.....
    
    
<    Kerry... pray tell what are you talking about?
	
	gale; new way to copy base notes ....... cute, and subtle too!

    
>    Despite the degree to which Kerry usually gets on my nerves, he's
>    got a point this time.
    
<    DFW

	I don't even know where your nerves are.

APEHUB::STHILAIRE "you may say I'm a dreamer"         2 lines  16-NOV-1987 13:38

<    Maybe he's trying to say he finds Darryl Hannah attractive :-).

	Was HE in that movie. :^)
    

>    wasnt it a certain religious group that came around and changed
>    all that? i thought that was where the term missionary position
>    came from.
	
	yes the holy roll her overs.
    
>    i dont know how it could have been portryed "nicely",but in all
>    likelyhood the men and women from that era took their cue from watching
>    animals.i dont know too amny animals that have a predilection for
>    privacy or asked if they could first.

	Prove that. Sounds like speculation to me!
    

>    re .7, and privacy and asking if you can first, are both certainly
>    important :-).
	
	Ask who? Please pass the ..... .
    

>    re.8 not when your in lust...    ;^)

	Is that like being in Coventry???????

    
>    Re .7
>    
>            If thats the case Ill second it, but knowing Kerry
>            I have a tendency to think it goes beyond that.

	hunh?

    Indeed, the book clubs that offered these titles had a reader-
    discretion notice: "Note that this book contains explicit sexual
    material". I do have to admit that reading those books had, how
>    shall I say it, a noticeable effect on me.
    
      Alan 

	well i hope you got a hold of yourself.


0>  very sensitive the way they depicted men's sexual sensitivity.
0>  I for one, thought it was kind of special.....

>	Hmmm ...  Assuming this was intended as a typical sarcastic
>comment ...  Are we therefore to assume that the author intended to
>make the point that since cave-man times men have evolved somewhat
>in the "sensitivity" of their sexual behavior?  Certainly this _IS_
>a topic worthy of discussion in this conference.

	Yes.

>	Is the reasonable thing here to discuss how far we Noters
>have evolved from that?  Do we then contrast this with how far we
>"neo-sensitive" Noter-types have advanced beyond most of the less
>sensitive males commonly found everywhere "out there" in reality ?
>Is "Evolving Male Sensitivity" a potentially interesting topic ???

	Yes.

>>	Or should we simply infer that the author prefers to let
>us believe he "identifies" with cave-man-like behavior and would
>prefer to return to those more primitive days and customs?

	Or question, Yes.

>	More interesting than a discussion of this author and his
>behavioral preferences would be a discussion of the present decade
>and what sort of behavior is preferable in light of the Hite Report
>and the fear of AIDS.
>
	100 % agreement here with the emphasis on sensitivity to wants and 
needs. It may be a valid point here to note that the only difference 
twixt male and female is that f's can get preggers and I CAN'T.

	This may be a late time to do this but I also objected to the 
abosolute and total subservience that women were portrayed as in the movie
I am arguing. But one might also conjecture that the old men were given 
the same lack of respect therefore the distribution of humiliation was 
communistic, communism in its purest sense being described by many as the
best form of gov't.


  re: .4	>    Kerry... pray tell what are you talking about?

>	As per his usual "style" ... this author has no intention at all
>beyond making himself highly visible on the network by trying to be very
>inflamatory without actually saying anything that is directly offensive.

	Thank you Dr. Eagle, the check is in the mail.

  re: .5    DFW

<5>  Despite the degree to which Kerry usually gets on my nerves, he's
<5>  got a point this time.
<
<	Could you elaborate a little?  Obviously his "point" (if any)
<isn't quite so clear to the rest of us ...

	I'll chalk it.

<  re: .6

<6>  Maybe he's trying to say he finds Darryl Hannah attractive :-).

<	Most likely NOT since she seems quite independent and capable
<of making her own way without much male assistance.  In fact she seems
<able to challenge a "dominant" male and wins in the end.  The author
<wouldn't find that at all attractive as he can't deal with defeat.

	i can to defeat. i bin tyin my shoes since i was 5.


<  re: .7

<7>  men and women from that era took their cue from watching animals.

<	And today ... do we get our cues from watching Television ???

	PERISH THE THOUGHT! WILMAAAAAAAAA !

  re: .8

<8>  and privacy and asking if you can first, are both certainly important :-).
<
<	AHA!  We may begin a discussion at last!  This comes from a lady!
<Can we assume *most* men today have evolved at least to this point?  The
<Date-Rape topic comes quickly to mind!  Apparently males have evolved so
<slowly that a sense of "privacy" generally means opportunity to do what
<*most* males today would not tolerate.  From this we might infer that a
<rapist is an un-evolved cave-man-like coward!  Further we may infer that
<the modern female has evolved the concept of "her choice" instead of being
<just the "property" of whatever male is strongest or most violent.
<
<	Now that we (civilized) males have had to accept the enlightened
<concept of "her choice" it might be interesting to discuss the modern
<basis women use for making such choices.  It would appear that strength
<and violence are no longer seen as valid reasons for making that choice.


	whew !

  re: .9	>	not when your in lust...    ;^)

	And while this comment was entered half-jokingly ... it expresses
the current cultural bias that while *most* women have control of their
emotional bahavior ... *many* men are still assumed/allowed/tolerated to
act as cave-men whose emotions may be acted upon without any thought.

<	Unless someone chooses to discuss these ideas ... it would seem
<*many* men have still not progressed beyond the inarticulate stage of
<emotional behavior depicted in the movie "Clan of the Cave Bear" ...

	I for one have. I think. :^)


<	/~~e~~\  Eagles_Are_Not_Expecting_2_"Evolve"_..._Only_2_Survive

	ain't that what it is all about ?



<<    re.13 as usual noting is not a discussion with a large group of
<<    people, but rather direct assaults on individuals, why?
<<    
<<    	I would like to state that I catagorically was/am disgusted
<<    with the movie clan of .... the movie did not need any sex of any
<<    type to make the point that it did. It did however make "monkeys"
<<    out of men. If women are bent on proving their equality to men I
<<    for one would like to apologize.....they should seek superiorty
<<    over men.
<<
<<
<<
	I ignore him.

    

     
    Note that .10 should have read RE .6 vice RE .7, My mistake
    
     

    re.16 re.10 re.6 as opposed to re .10 re .7 re. 6
    
    thanx for the edification Mr. Barber 
    now it's clear as mud :^)
    
    

    
    Somehow, I knew that you would appreciate it Kerry.
    
     

   .13 has been deleted by request.
    
    DFW

    .19 should be in NO_WHERE::PODIATRY

    Kerry,
    
    I was extremely surprised by your .0 (which I thought I understood)
    and your .14 (which showed that I did). I agree with you one hundred
    percent. I thought that the books AND the movie were pretty disgusting
    in this respect. "Exploitative" comes to mind, as does "absurd".
    Even other primates don't behave the way Auel portrays. In fact
    in many Baboon societies females wield a significant amount of power
    by controlling who they mate with and when. (Some parallels to our
    current society should be obvious.) I know of NO primate "societies"
    where the kind of activities portrayed by Auel are the norm.
    
    Bleah.
    
    Aside from the gratuitous degrading sex scenes, the books were
    interesting, as speculative (pre-) historical fantasy.
    
    For those of you who were turned on by this adolescent nonsense,
    check out the "Gor" series by John Norman. You should find it to
    your taste.
    
    Great notes Kerry, though the last few were pretty weak. Did you
    REALLY write .15 or did you get someone to type it in from your
    account? :-)
    
    	-- Charles

    re.21
    Rita's snake got better.
    
    But seriously in regard this piece of s*** clan thing.
    I happen to be a great admirer of grade B movies (okay Eagle sometimes
    it is really C D ....Z movies) and I love watching them to find
    the flaws. I believe it satisfies a need that I have because I am
    incapable of detecting system errors (I can't be motivated to do
    that). Cave.... was a wash. It appeared to be done on a semi
    professional budget not as an intended grade B so I have a right
    to critique it as an honest effort.
    yes I wrote .15.
    If that's what I am like I am going to put my head down and run
    into the nearest wall.