Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Answers to above questions:
    
    	Yes, yes, once, good because it's better than keeping it in,
    	and yes.
    
    	My basic philosophy is that we are human beings first, period.
    	Gender has nothing to do with feelings and if you keep your
    	feelings locked inside of you, you WILL be miserable.  As some
    	people have read in this conference, I lost my wife to a drunk
    	driver three years ago.  Besides my own physical pain, the
    	emotional stress was high for awhile and if I didn't let it
    	out from time to time, I'd be committed in an institution by
    	now.  Crying is an emotion, like laughing.  Nobody's lives are
    	perfect so we have to take the bad with the good.  If we laugh
    	when we feel good, why not cry when we feel bad.

    
    >Do you ever cry?
    
    Only in times of extreme emotional distress.  Crying is a sign that
    I've been reduced to a basket-case.
    
    >In front of people?
    
    For me, crying usually indicates things are so bad I may not even
    be aware people are around me.
    
    >Did you ever cry at work?
    
    Not since I was sixteen.  (I got attacked on my first job in a state
    park.)
    
    >What to you think of men who cry in public and/or at work?
    
    I'd react in context, I suppose.  I've never seen it, so I can't be
    sure.  I'd probably feel bad for them, since something bad would
    probably have happened. 
    
    >Would you admit to crying at work if you'd ever done so?
    
    I'd be a fool to deny it, wouldn't I?  I wouldn't worry about it
    influencing someone's opinion of me.  People subject to such influences
    are probably pretty comtemptible.
    
    DFW

    
    I have tears only for
    
    1) affairs of the heart
    2) moments of extreme patriotism
    3) certain classical music passages
    
    Nothing could make me cry in front of someone, and
    nothing here at work would really upset me that much.
    For me, control of emotions is a hallmark of maturity and stability.
    I could not have a lot of confidence in anyone who cries at work. 
    
    It is never wise to wear emotions on the sleeve.

    
         I'm waiting for Bill Cosby and Ken Olsen to cry on national
    television before I consider it okay.
    
                                   Greg
    

        It's valid,  Eagle  and  was well stated!  Emotional control is
        important in the  business  world, at least if one wishes to be
        considered professional and that applies  equally to men and to
        women in the workplace.
        
        Andy.
        

    On control. I can speed up or slow down my heart rate. I can
    make even the worst headache go away in minutes with a little
    concentration. I can ignore 6-8 bee stings at a time (and have 
    done so several times). After a life time of trying, I can *not*
    stop tears when I get angry. I do not believe (now after years
    or trying and soul searching) that it is possible (physically)
    for me to stop them.
    
    I have cried at work. Several times in front of my boss. Some times 
    it's been when we were talking about great personal problems that
    were affecting my work. A couple of times when I was extremely
    angry about things at work. My bosses are/were real men. They
    understood. It hasn't hurt me. They understood the intensity of
    my feelings and could see the massive effort attempting to stop
    the tears. IN hind sight I think I would have been better saving
    the useless energy wasted on trying to stop the tears and concentrating
    on the arguments. 
    
    I care a lot about my job. Any job you don't care enough about to
    get emotional about is not worth having. Any opinion that you don't
    care enough about to get upset about (and fight for) is not worth
    having.
    
    I cry.
    I'm a man.
    Ergo: Men cry.
    Men who don't understand that have my pity. Those who would think
    less of me have my contempt. It's a shame that some people don't
    realize that maturity is living with emotion not stifling it.
    
 ~Cliff

    >	Do you ever cry?
    
    	Yep. For various reasons, maybe I've watched a moving film,
    or something emotive has happened to me.
    
    >	In front of people?
    
    	Once or twice. I don't like to cry in public. Someone once accused
    me of 'crying to gain sympathy' as if I were manipulating people.
    He got that wrong. I've always thought of the ability to cry as
    a strength. The idea that a man crying is a crybaby, weak etc. is
    ridiculous to me.
    
    I have seen various reactions to me when I have cried. Some men
    can't look and want to walk away. They don't want to see someone,
    in their view 'losing control'. They are afraid of it.
    
    I find crying releases tension. I find myself feeling much better
    afterwards. It helps me. Though I realise if I did it ALL THE TIME
    it would be a pain for other people.
    
    So there is a time for tears and not for tears.

    >   Did you ever cry at work?
    
    	Yes. When I was trying to recover from severe stomach pains
    at one point I broke down and cried at work.
    
    >	What do you think of men who cry in public and/or at work?
    
    	They are expressing feelings. Maybe for them the feelings are
    acute, maybe not.
    
    >	Would you admit to crying at work if you'd ever done so?
    
    	Obviously.

    Pete

    
         There is the possibility that many people don't feel the need
    to cry (in most situations).  I do not cry, as a general rule, but
    if I were in a situation similar to the agents that you mentioned,
    NOT CRYING would be out of the question.  That situation is so acute,
    that those people are unlikely to experience it again in their lives.
    The sudden loss of people who are just like you and who maybe major
    parts of the surviving agents' lives, is devastating.  On the other
    hand, crying over something like a rough day at work seems to be
    an overreaction.
    
                                   Greg
    

    
    When I experienced my first firefight (with platoon 
    members kia), I cried. But after a while the feeling
    of horror gave way to a somewhat numbing, humbling 
    feeling... The dulling of the edge of emotion allows
    people to continue functioning, either in police 
    work, fire or paramedic service, or in wartime...
    
    Some people gain occupation-based immunity from
    crying loss, and I'd wager there are quite a few of
    us who really *don't* need to cry to release tension
    or emotion or whatever. I would regard a policeman
    who broke out crying as not really suited to handle 
    the highest tension situations. Them that betray their
    emotions in public lose their effectiveness... 
    
    I had thought higher of the FBI's training than to
    think that a Special Agent would break down in public
    and kick a corpse... rather than evidence of healthy 
    enmotion, it seems more like extreme unprofessionalism...
                                                            
    The point I would make is simply that it is naive to
    demand ability to cry on cue in public as a sign
    of mental health. 

    My name is Rich. I consider myself a rugged masculine man, but I've
    never been able to control tears. They come to me for many different
    reasons, any time any place, and I'm not ashamed at all to admit
    it. If I read a book or a newspaper about a heroic event saving
    lives, or see a touching emotional scene on TV, or at the movies,
    or some personally motivated happy or sad event happens, I will
    cry. I do not cry about things such as losing a hockey game, or
    having to bear physical pain. I would never cry about any work related
    problems, involving screwups or interpersonal problems.
    I felt like crying, when I read this note file about the cop who
    felt responsible about the death. I read, watch and experience life
    with an open mind, and I respond in the way that is normal for me,
    not for anyone else. If tears are what my body needs to cope with
    any experience, then they are welcome.
    Anyone who can not cry, or simply refuses to because of their own
    image of themselves, will oneday have reason of their own that will
    cause their heart to ache, and their body to shut down and grieve,
    or die.
    
    My twenty cents worth.    Rich.
    
                                   

     No, I never cry.

     If I did, i'd *never* do it in front of people.
    
        If I saw a man crying at work, I would not be very impressed
    with him. But, at the same time, I would not let this show (emotionally or
    in facial expressions), and I would not bring the incident up in
    conversation.
    
    Whenever I feel like crying I simply stiffen the jaw and keep my head up.

                                                       Nate Proia.
    
    

    RE: .17
    
    	Would you be very impressed if you saw a women crying at work?
    
    	I'm not impressed when I see ANYone crying at work in a
    professional situation. Personal situations are VERY different though.
    
    
    							mike

    I cry, when ever and where ever I need to, and if those around me
    cannot understand that men cry, then they have my pity.
    
    I believ I made an entry similar to this that I can not find - but
    I invite you as men, and those woman who look into this file to
    take a look at where we come from.
    
    I most cases, not all ( there are exceptions of course), men are
    brought up to never cry, that crying and showing emmotions was for
    sissies.  This belief has been passed on by our fathers to us and
    their fathers to them, and so on and so forth on back.  With a belief
    that is so deep rooted no wonder is it so difficult for most men
    to show emmotions.  As in many beliefs being around for so long
    and disguised or hidden in different ways - we may not even realize
    that we have these beliefs. 
    
    If you break the chain our son's will not live in shame or fear
    of crying.  There is no shame in it, there is nothing to fear, you
    do not wear your heart on your sleeve.  Real men do cry, real fathers
    do not teach their children not to cry.  
    
    There are a lot of discoveries to be made about ourselves, reach
    out and experience it all.
    
    jim

    I would never cry at work, however, to me crying is a loss of self control
    so the day may come where I have no choice. So far I haven't even come
    close. 
    
    For a man to cry at work is a negative, especially if you're in a
    leadership position, your position would be severely undermined. In spite
    of all this I do not look down on men (people) who cry. I've been
    supervising people for more than 8 years and have seen the gamut of human
    emotion. In fact a situation that had tremendous impact on me involved a
    crying man.
    
    It happend when I was 22 or 23 years old. I was a typical hotshot and had
    been supervising for less than a year in a union shop. I had terminated a
    couple people for one thing or another but (in retrospect) didn't
    understand the implications of what termination *really* meant until this
    incident. The person was a family man in his mid-twenties with a bad
    attendance problem. We had been through the standard disciplinary
    procedure with him and it was time to terminate. A meeting was held with
    the employee, his union steward, the plant personnel rep, and myself
    present. Throughout the preliminaries he was haughty and cute, relying on
    his steward to save him as he had throughout the disciplinary process.
    Unfortunately, the steward *knew* he had reached the point of no return
    and said absolutely nothing. After trying to draw out the steward
    repeatedly, the employee realized his plight. His demeanor changed 180� as
    he pleaded for his job. I was OK (just another termination) until he
    started crying and telling us what his problems were ("how will I feed my
    kids", "I just bought a new car", "How will I make my mortgage payements",
    etc). He totally lost control and was reduced to a slobbering mess. I had
    never seen a man cry before that day, the effect on me was dramatic, I
    felt about two inches tall and didn't recover for about a week. I learned
    alot about supervising people that day. I almost gave up supervising but
    after considerable reflection I decided I *wanted* to be a supervisor and
    that as a supervisor I'd probably have to go through similar experiences
    in the future. The key (for me) was a resolution to make damn sure I'm
    doing the right thing when I discipline people, after all the job ain't
    worth nothing if I can't look myself in the eye when I shave in the
    mornings. I'll never forget that day and how I felt when that guy broke
    down.
    
    Steve
    
    ps. I was never an emotional guy until my 1st son was born six years ago.
    Now I often find myself ckoked up over the sillest things (ie. movies,
    Reader's Digest articles (of all things!))

re: .19
    
>    Now I often find myself ckoked up over the sillest things (ie. movies,
>    Reader's Digest articles (of all things!))

    
    It's funny, RD always brought out the emotion in me too.
    
    Since I've been an adult (I'm 37 now) the only time I've cried, I mean
    really cried uncontrollably, was 8 years ago when my father died.

    I get misty eyed at times (usually movies) and there are other times when
    I feel the urge coming on but I think subconciously push it back.
    
    Maybe after reading this topic I'll try not to repress the feeling
    next time.
    
    Charlie

    I am the author of .20
    
    Since I wrote that note I have been experiencing a lot more urges
    to cry. This is because there have been a lot of things happening
    to me lately. I did cry one night when I discovered the piano music
    that my mother, who has played the piano since she was a little
    girl, had given to my wife when my mother moved into a retirement
    home. It was inside of a paper bag and drawn on the outside of the 
    bag was a large heart with an arrow stuck thru it. Dripping off the 
    tip of the arrow were tears...because her eyesight has deteriorated 
    to the point where she has trouble reading the notes.
    
    She has only been in the home for a few months and our emotions
    are still very close to the surface. My wife was there when I cried.
    Now the test is to see if I can let it out in front of my kids.

    for those of you who haven't heard the music of The Cure.........
    
    I try to laugh about it
    Cover it all up with lies
    I try and
    Laugh about it
    Hiding the tears in my eyes
    Cos boys don't cry
    
    .......................................robert smith got it right

        I normally hold back tears, especially in front of my
        soon to be ex.  My upbringing has taught me "men don't
        cry". HOGWASH.  I remember watching "Lassie Comes Home"
        (or something like that) and wanted to cry happy tears in
        the last episode, but because my Mom and Dad and the rest
        of my family was present I didn't.  I was maybe 10-12
        years old.  The is first time I can remember holding back
        those tears.
        
        This, I'm sure, has lead to many problems I have today.
        Feelings are supposed to real and genuine not
        controlled.  I hope to reverse this situation and become
        honest about my feelings.  A transition to a "real
        person" instead of a "macho man".
        
        gt
        

    I am new to notes, and, I love it.  You people bring up all sorts of 
    taboo subjects and, I get to respond anomyously (almost, well... you
    can't SEE me).  Men and crying..........hmmmmmm its sort of like the
    rest room issue. Men are conditions (at least used to be) not to cry
    "big boys don't cry".  I have never cried at work... conditioned not
    too... wreck my career and all.   At home I cry rarely.... but as an
    earlier noter said only under EXTREME distress....practically a basket
    case...almost no control over type of situation.  I wish I could cry
    more easily... I would reduce stress on me and probably extend my life
    span.  Horray for all of you who are conditioning our current crop of
    boys TO CRY when they need to.  I am doing that with my son. He is 
    2.5. In fact when the daycare person said "big boys don't cry" my wife
    and I jumped all over her to to LET him cry.  Unless it was just being
    whiney.  Jeff

    The only reason I can see not to cry is if the situation (fireman,
    ambulance driver, etc.) demands action and control.  But later
    on, after the event is over...sure.  Tears are the healing of the
    pain.  I cry about the weirdest things sometimes.  I'm glad.  I
    know I'm fully experiencing all the emotions of life.  What's the
    point of living and being a robot?

    
    	   Tears... who needs them?
    
    	   I cry about once every ten years or so.  I probably should
    	cry more, but for the life of me I just can't get that worked 
    	up about things.  I've got one of those happy-go-lucky 
    	attitudes that says nothing is so important that you should
    	let it really crush you.
    
    	   The last time I cried was when I was told I would have to
    	get rid of my dog.  I didn't even know I had become that attached
    	to the mutt, but I had.  Anyway, after crying a bit I handled
    	the situation... I broke my lease, moved to a new apartment,
    	and flipped a bird at my old apartment manager, then went on 
    	my happy-go-lucky way.
    
    	- Greg

    
    	Were you ever able to get your dog back Greg?
    
    
    						Hank

    
    	RE: .27  Hank
    
    	> Were you ever able to get your dog back Greg?
    
    	This is what he did *instead* of getting rid of Tryppyr:
    
    		"Anyway, after crying a bit I handled the situation... 
    		I broke my lease, moved to a new apartment, and flipped 
    		a bird at my old apartment manager, then went on my 
    		happy-go-lucky way."