Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    You raised a good point.  But remember an OJ is a drink, ie, anything
    that is liquid is a drink from water to the hard stuff.  If you
    do not like it then DO NOT drink it.  If those around you can not
    take you "not drinking" maybe you should find new "friends".
     
    The point is do what is right for you.
    
    John
    

    It is all the same peer pressure. People *want* everyone around
    them to be just like them. I won't advocate either side of the
    drinking question, however, to drink because someone else wants
    you to is decidedly wrong. Drink if and what you choose to drink..
    only. This is exactly the problem we are having with our kids and the 
    drug problems.
        
                   JUST SAY NO THANKS...

    
    Bob_who_don't_care_what_others_drink
    

        I drink and I like the flavour and affects of alcoholic beverages.
    I don't enjoy getting drunk, just buzzed.  I usually alternate between
    alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks at so that I don't drink too
    much.
    
        I only drink things that I enjoy the taste of though.  I'm at
    odds with most beer 'experts' because I don't like the heavily hopped
    brews that they say are 'the best'.  I know what I like, and I'll
    try something a couple of times before passing a negative judgement,
    but I won't drink something just to get buzzed.
    
        I love wines very much.  The complexity and variety available
    boggles the mind.  I'm probably never going to be able to try the
    best wines, but I have had some very good ones.
    
        I don't presume that people need to drink to have fun.  I try
    to make those who don't wish to drink comfortable.  I try to supply
    a variety of alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks to my guests.
    
    ASP

    I drink to make me less tense.I am a performer. Scotch makes me
    relax. I will drink maybe 3 scotch's in an entire evening while
    performing.
    
    jeff

    I used to tolerate liquor fairly well.  Gone are the college days
    of free beer at parties, though...and shortly thereafter I made
    an interesting discovery.  I don't even LIKE the taste of beer.
    I like the effects of liquor in small quantities (kind of like your
    body and mind humming in harmonic chords), but most alcohols leave
    a distinctly "alcohol" feeling in the back of my throat which I
    don't like.  
    
    So I have taken to drinking rarely, in small quantities, and mostly
    drinks where the "liquor" flavor is covered up:  daiquiris, pina
    coladas, Bailey's Irish Cream, and Fuki Plum Wine are my favorites.
     And how could I forget the Asti?
    
    Also, I have no problem with other people drinking, but if they
    do "get drunk" and it happens often, I start to wonder who's in
    control.  I've noticed several people I know act very different
    when they are drunk (aka downright uncivilized aka like jerks) and
    then they don't remember who they insulted or hit the night before.
    
     My mom always used to have a martini when she got home (she even
    let me eat the olives at the bottom when I was little), and my dad's
    always been a teetotaler except for an occasional glass of wine
    with dinner.

    -Jody
    

    Add another one to the "I don't drink" list...
    

    I don't mind telling someone else if they want a glass of "whatever"
    go ahead, I just don't like the taste of the stuff...
    
    Gale

    
         There are some wines that I like, but what I drink in a year
    is what most 'drinkers' drink in a day.  Alcohol is an acquired
    taste, and blessed be those who have not acquired it.
    
                                  Greg
    

    One of the reasons I seldom enjoyed parties in high school or college
    was the attitude that you simply *had* to have something to drink. Even
    now, some adults who would never dream of contradicting you to your
    face in conversation think nothing of riding you mercilessly if you
    don't accept some booze. "Come on, one won't hurt," or "But you aren't
    even driving," or "What's the matter, you think we're drunks?" 
    
    Fortunately, I eventually discovered people who can have fun (a)
    without drinking at all, or (b) without making an issue of who drinks
    alcohol and who doesn't. Ideally, any host should accept a refusal
    gracefully, be it of food, drink, drugs, or self...

    As for my tastes in booze: I don't consider myself a drinker. I do
    enjoy a glass of wine with dinner when eating out, but it doesn't
    bother me not to have one. Lately I've developed a fondness for a beer
    now and then, especially if I need to relax. (I find I actually do like
    the taste of Dos Equis, but I have to be in the mood.) If I'm at
    a party I may take a drink, but I'll usually switch to soda or fruit
    juice for the long haul.
    
    Mostly, I drink Coke. Classic. From glass bottles only. When the
    moon is in the first quarter. (No, wait a minute - that bit about
    the moon is just plain silly!)
    
    -b

    I enjoy a few beers to mellow out, quench a thirst, whatever. An
    occasional glass of rose. Sometimes a 'shooter' or two. And once
    in a while I tie one on. "Moderation in all things, including
    moderation."
    
    Dana

    As I matured I realized I didn't give a damn about peer pressure
    as far as drinking went.  I've had my share of hangovers and not
    totally remembering the night before and I don't care to feel like
    that again.  I've found over the years what alcoholic beverages
    my body can tolerate and what it can't.  At a party I can drink
    Kahlua Sombreroes all night and barely get a buzz, but give me a
    second glass of wine (even watered down with ice or soda) and I'll
    be under the table before anyone.
    
    This summer I went to a fortieth birthday party of about 60 people.
     Many of them I hadn't seen in about a year and we had all been
    "party" people.  The woman's, whose birthday it was, mother who
    was popping them down wanted to know if we were alcoholics because
    hardly anyone was drinking.  I guess a lot of us realized we didn't
    need the "crutch" and could have a good time with a clear head.
    
    There is one thing for sure, if I go to a club where they want to
    charge me $2.00 or $2.50 for a coke I'll order a beer and nurse
    it and then drink water after that.  Most clubs don't like you drinking
    for free, but they make up for it with their cover charges.
    
    Susan

    re .0
    
    I am also a non drinker and have been the subject of social ridicule
    (for about 10 years) because of it.  My career in the military suffered
    because my decision to not drink was deemed "antisocial".  I am
    one who does not like to be swayed by peer pressure and will remain
    a non drinker despite the negative social effects.
    
    Joe H.

    re. .11
    You aren't Coporal Joe Holt USMC 2nd Mar Div B Co. 2nd Combat Engineers
    are you?

    Did anyone else notice the new idea being put forth on a 
    No-alcohol section at Fenway Park? I have heard people vehemantly
    opposed to this. I can't understand why. I have been to too many
    games where drunks have made the game utterly unbearable, what's
    the problem with giving them their own section to "enjoy" the game
    in. (not to mention I hate takin a young kid to the game)
    Whyizzit?
    

    If anyone is interested, I heard of a new nightclub-type-place that
    opened in Worcester, MA (Shrewsbury Street?) called "High Sobriety",
    and they're dedicated to having a good, social time (I think they
    also have entertainment there) without drinking.  
    
    also:
    Anyone else know of pleasant nightclubs in the Boston/Worcester
    area that does not require ID (i.e. non-drinking)?
    
    -Jody
    

    re: .12
    
    No.. I was in the Army..
    
    Joe H.
    

    
    Now, I like a drink or two.  Usually, I sip Jack Daniel's straight
    from the bottle.  I like the taste.  No one believes me when I say
    this, but anyway.
    
    The only time I give non-drinkers a hard time is when they take
    it upon themselves to give me a temperance lecture, and then it's
    for being an interfering Nosey Parker, not because they aren't
    drinking.
    
    DFW

    Giving up drinking also raises tons of curious questions by "lots"
    of people who think they know you.
    
    "Why did you stop drinking?"  "Were you having a problem?"  "Did
    something trigger you to stop?"  These and many, many more.  I get
    hit with a barrage of "whys" and "well excuuuuuuse me's"...
    
    I always drank less than a six pack of beer in a given week.
    I lived by one policy, "No liquor on long holiday weekends."
    Didn't want to end up as another statistic.  Funny thing occurred
    to me during the last Memorial Day weekend, if I don't need to drink
    over a holiday weekend, then why do I need to drink alcohol at all?
    
    So, I started this little marathon with myself to see how long I
    could go without having a drink.  Each day went by, and I discovered
    that I wouldn't even desire to have one.  Next thing you know, months
    have gone by since I even "thought" about alcohol.  I admit, I've
    stayed away from "the local establishments" by choice, but even
    the few times I've been, I found I just go to be with my friends.
    
    My immediate and closes friends envy me.  However, the distant friends
    and accquaintences find it difficult to conceive when they offer
    to buy me a drink and I order a soda.  They generally become surprised,
    and so confused that the 20 question scenario starts.  
                                                                   
    It gets tedious after awhile, repeating your beliefs.  Most people
    find it difficult to stand/sit there and talk to sober person.
    It gets to the point where I actually feel sorry for them.  I have
    some real good friends but after an hour or so of boozin' it, they
    really change into quite different people.  Some get just a little
    silly, while others tend to go from friendly to down right belligerent!
    
    It's interesting when the next day rolls around and they try to
    avoid you, (and other non-drinkers), like we were the black plaque.
    Oh well, perhaps I'm becoming a social misfit.  But I do know that
    my mind is a great deal sharper and I have accomplished lots of
    things I would have normally put off until "tomorrow".
    
    That's my 10 cents...

    RE: .16,.17
    
    	I drink Guinness and people find it hard to believe I drink
    	it for the taste.. 
    	
    	I have a policy. If it's a holiday weekend and I'm with a bunch
    	of friends at a cottage or up in the mountains at a lodge or
    	something similar, then I don't worry about my consumption.
    	Otherwise, I'm just a social drinker and VERY aware of what
    	I consume.. I don't want to be a statistic either.. (Nor do
    	I really feel like walking to work and paying large fines)
    
    	FWIW, I can have just as good a time without drink as I can
    	with. A beer helps me to relax though even if I do only
    	drink it for the taste..
    
    							mike

    I never got seriously acquainted with alcohol as a teen-ager
    and have not really developed a fondness for it since then.
    I do enjoy wine when I am dining with someone special, and
    I will on occasion have one beer when I'm with others that
    are also ordering beer (especially if we're having spicy
    oriental food!)
    
    However, I don't keep beer in my house, and at present have
    no hard liquor at all (the only hard liquor I'll ever drink
    is rum mixed into a fruit drink, and that very rarely).
    My beverage of choice is Pepsi.  If I am at a bar or a lounge,
    I'll order Perrier, or something similar (often to great disdain
    by the waiters, though).
    
    I am very sensitive to the effects of alcohol, and cannot take
    more than one or two glasses of wine or beer without feeling
    pretty awful.  My head stuffs up, I start to sneeze, and I don't
    feel very good.  The last time I got really DRUNK was when I
    was about 16 from a bottle of Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill.
    That is an event I never want to repeat!
    
    Even when times have been very dark for me, I would NEVER
    "drink my troubles away".  Using drugs (including alcohol)
    to escape from one's problems is no solution, at least for me.
    
    Besides - Pepsi is a lot cheaper!
    
    			Steve

    
    I like an occaisional shot of Asbach Uralt,
    and a K&B after a long hot go at Skyline. 
    
    First tasted Guiness in the Shannon Airport bar as a
    wide eyed 17 year old private, circa 1969. 
    The locals made it very uncomfortable for us 
    who ordered Black Label...

    Re: .17
    
    'Most people find it difficult to stand/sit there and talk to sober
    person'.
    
    I know what you mean. They feel you should be drinking along with
    them, enjoying it as much as they do. They feel you are 'left out',
    or 'antisocial'.
    
    :-) I have found both alcoholic and non-alcoholic parties enjoyable.
    What does bug me are people who say 'Go on Pete, have a drink'.
    
    Sometimes I have a half pint, sometimes not.
    
    Pete.

                        
    	Was I the only teenager or are you people afraid to admit it.
    	I used to drink with no responsibility whatsoever. I was one
    of those wild party til you puke persons. Then I got married.
    Thank God. It would be unusual for me to drink more than a six a
    week now- unless my bro and some friends got together for a saturday
    nite card game when 5 or 6 of us would knock off a coupla cases.
    	I am a drinker when I want to be and my toleration level is
    high. What some people could get drunk from I could get just a buzz.
    	I've still done some serious drinking these days but just not
    as often or should I say hardly at all like those teenage yrs. 
    
    
    see ya
    pisano

    Hmmm.... had a meal around some friends.
    
    'Do you want some wine Pete?'
    
    'No thanks'
    
    'Don't you drink'
    
    'Not especially. I don't like the taste'
    
    'Oh really, well, I'm sure we can help you learn...'
    
    *groan*
    
    Pete.

Hmmm...so your friends give you a hard time for not drinking alcoholic
beverages when you go out with them??

Well, just Get Arrested (for DWI)!  Next thing you know they'll be saying
things like, "Gee, I really admire you for being able to hang around with
us and drink coffee while we're getting crocked."  Your behavior is no
longer a (perhaps implicit) put-down of their lifestyle, it's a personal
social survival tactic instead.  And that also puts the other person into
"there but for fortune"-mode thinking.

What can I say--it works for me!:-)  (Plus I'll even have a beer with
somebody if they do the driving, or if they want to come over my house--
just to show them my heart's still in the right place!;-))
						once_burned_is_enough

.22>  	Was I the only teenager or are you people afraid to admit it.

    If drinking is part of being a teenager then I was never one. I
    don't drink and never did. I still have trouble understanding why
    people get drunk though I'm starting to understand having a few
    drinks now and again. It took me awhile to come around to accepting
    any drinking because of all the kids that I knew who drank to get
    drunk.
    
    Actually I think that my brother and I got invited to a lot of parties
    *because* we don't drink. How else were those idiots ever going
    to get home?
    
    				Alfred

    Well, I started out as a none drinker until I was about 22 (drinking
    age then - 18, and don't go figuring out the years please).
    
    At that time someone introduced me to Kahlua Sombreros, the first
    drink I could stand the taste of.  I still drink no other alcohol,
    but have moved up to White Russians.  Yes, I like a little buzz,
    but after a good meal, so hang over is less.  And sure once in
    a while I tie a good one on, not when I drive.
    
    I made all those "drink my face off" and plenty of drunk driving
    mistakes to have learned my limit (the *very* hard way).  Will
    never get over wondering if I may have killed someone the night
    before had I been in an accident.
    
    No, I don't mind drinking, and will never feel it's wrong, but
    excess....senseless!
    
                                          cj
    

    I started to drink after watching friends after school. I just never
    could quite enjoy the taste. Then after a few bad nights, I gave
    up. Why give myself headaches etc. the following day, and drink
    something that tastes foul?
    
    I do drink sometimes, the odd half here and there. Just not very
    often. Besides I don't mind being the driver - I've no objection
    to other people drinking - though I might object to driving them
    home legless!
    
    The atmosphere in a pub is quite enjoyable with friends. Most accept
    I don't really drink too much. A few poke fun at me... fine.
    
    Pete.

    
    	I don't drink, and if someone tries to change my mind I say,
    	"If I don't have any, then there will be more for you!"
    
    						Jane.
    

    Your choice of beverage is not another person's atmosphere.  Would
    you meekly defend yourself if someone told you to order a steak
    instead of what you wanted so that they could enjoy THEIR steak more?  
    Same silliness.
    
    Booze is for those of us who love it!  (Johnnie Black - neat - short,
    squat, heavy glass full o' rocks).
    
    

    
    How can something be neat and on the rocks at the same time?
    
    Bartender's son
    DFW

    Johnny Black?  Yech.  Barely suitable for human consumption.
    
    - M

       re .32:
       
       > Johnny Black?  Yech.  Barely suitable for human consumption.
       
       I'm not so sure about that.  I knew a fellow who licked barnicles
       off the bottom of boats all day for a living, and he thought
       that JW tasted just fine after a hard day's work.
       
       Most everyone else I know prefers a malt, though.
       
       --Mr Topaz

    
    
    	Yea Donzo, a Guinness Malted is something that shouldn't
    	be missed..
    
    						mike

    Over the years I've heard "neat" to mean just no mixer and both
    no mixer and no rocks.  "Straight up" is just no rocks.  I never
    try to second guess a customer though, so I remain flexible on these
    meanings.  
    
    I guess Johnnie Black isn't expensive enough for some of you, eh?  
    Sounds like I should have said I love the Glens, (*livet and *fiddich 
    et al), to be cool or that I only drink 150 year old
    something-or-other.  Hell, I even like Cutty when I'm not flush 
    enough to buy 10-12 Johnnie Blacks!  I'm not proud!   :-)  
    
    The Glens aren't "malts" they're "single malts".  All scotches are
    "malts".  I like the blended malt scotches.  They taste richer.
    
    Bartender - 11 years.
                                   
    

    
    Somethin' new every day...
    
    DFW

    Last time I was stateside I tried Budweiser. Not too bad. I'll have
    to try it here in the UK. In small quantities of course.
    
    Pete (who's just found something called Talisman)

    I like to drink cognac, Glenfiddich and Sam Adams beer.
    
    Cognac is a wonderful drink, the aroma itself is delicious. Also,
    you sip it, slowly, so it lasts a long time. But it is an acquired
    taste. If you gulp it, it will be harsh.
    
    Glenfiddich is too strong for most people, and its without the delicate
    flavour of cognac. But it too tastes good.
    
    Sam Adams is the best beer I have ever had the pleasure of drinking.
    Unfortunately, it is not available in Canada so I have to bring
    a case back whenever I'm in Boston, and then ration it. Beer id
    the only truly thirst-quenching drink besides water. It is also
    good for you.
    
    I drink these drinks because I like them. Not because of any peer
    pressure to drink. In fact I rarely drink much out of the house.
    Drinking and driving don't mix and all that.
    
    So the message is: drink the drinks that you like, and only when
    you feel like it.

    re: .38
    
    Can you explain how beer "is good for you"?
    
    

    re .39
    Well some doctors used to recommend beer to nursing mothers
    to increase the fluid and relax them. Also there have been
    studies that *moderate* drinkers were healthier and had
    longer life spans...

       re .38:
       
       > I like to drink cognac, Glenfiddich and Sam Adams beer.
       
       It sounds awful, but how much of each do you use in the drink?
       
       --Mr Topaz
       
       p.s.: You may not be able to get Sam Adams in CDN, but we can't
       get Alcool here.  Life's a bitch.

    
    
    Gee, that does sound pretty awful, but not much worse than
    vodka, oj, grenadine and sweet and sour, with a beer float!
    
    The name of this infamous drink is "Strip and Go Naked"
    
           Deb (who did a short stint tending bar in California)
    
    

RE: .42

	Oooooooo, that sounds nasty! Betcha it isn't the easiest thing
	to wake up to the next morning.. (IF you wake up..)

	Give me Kahula, Baileys, Whipped cream and Gran Marnier. I'm
	not repeating what the name of that one is though.. :-)


						mike

    re: .39	Can you explain how beer "is good for you"?

    Beer is an "all natural" food. Just like wheaties. No added sugar.
    Just barley, malt and water. Also no cholesterol. What can be better?
    
    .40 is also right. It has been shown that a beer or glass of wine
    or whatever after work can actually be good for you. It calms you
    down after a stressful day, thus reducing chances of heart problems
    and other stress-related complications.

    However, we're not talking about a case a day here folks. Plenty of
    experts don't think that anyone should get into any kind of habit of
    drinking any kind of alcohol.

    But PLEASE drink and enjoy AT HOME.  DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE.
    
    /Les

    RE .19    Light drinker also. Ten years back, Chivas Regal & 
              Amaretto Di Saronno did me in. I never was a wilder
              man that night. One pool game had every ball I hit
              jumping the bumper & hitting every chair & table in
              the place. When one ball bruised a biker's girlfriend's
              ankle, I learned what being bounced out of a bar headfirst
              is like. Luckily, a friend dragged me into his car before
              I could experience what a chain bruise is.
                Some School parties back then involved downing 12 beers
              in a couple hours. You'd think I'd learn the first time
              from puking into the stall toilet for an hour. Praying
              "Please God, help me, never again -- never ohhh ooohhhh"
              After 4 - 5 such sprawling experiences, I found a limit.
                Now just 3 - 4 beers a week. Who needs it.
    
                                                            Russ

    re .45 Added sugar
    
    It depends what you define as added sugar. The malting of the barley
    (putting it in a warm, humid place so it germinates) causes the
    starch in the barley grain to be converted to the sugar MALTOSE.
    The grain is malted for sufficient time for most of the starch to
    turn to sugar and then the barley is treated by boiling etc to extract
    the maltose - so you could say there is no added sugar, in that
    is is not always neccessary to add additional SUCROSE or GLUCOSE
    to the wort for fermentation (tho today, most beer is produced using
    less malted grain and more commrecially produced glucose syrup -
    cos its cheaper!)
    
    Dave K

          A frosty mug of Kutscher Alt, a slice of grapefruit, a large
        shot of mezcal tequila and a lightning quick E-Z chair in front
        of my wall of stereo with all the lights out, in the house of
        course. Crank it up, EeeeHaaww!!
                                                       
    tom

    I too, was a dangerous drinker - basically *after* high school.
    Dangerous, because I'd drive drunk.  I hit the nightclub scene
    pretty hard for awhile.  I'm just d*mn lucky I didn't get into
    trouble.                                          
    
    I won't put my body through that mess again.  The smoking didn't
    help either.  *yuck!*
    
    I generally only drink beer and wine these days, in moderation.
    Vodka is the only liquor I ever indulge in.  After all I can get
    my vitamin C with a screwdriver!  <;v)
    
    theresa.

    Best reply I've heard:
    
    	"C'mon, have a drink and be sociable!"
    
    	"I'm more sociable when I don't drink."
    

    Wow! I wrote .0 three years ago...
    
    Things have changed a little, in that I drink more than I used to.
    Still not keen on lager's etc. Has made party going a bit more
    interesting!
    
    Pete.