Conference quark::mennotes-v1

        You have  my  sympathy  Wayne  - a friend of mine had a similar
        experience a few  years  ago  when  she  lost her (33 year old)
        husband through a heart attack.
        
        All I can say  is  treasure  your memories of Katie and look to
        the future - you can never replace her, but you can be happy..
        
        I wish you well
        
        Andy

My Dad married at 21 and had his wife die of cancer a little more
than a year later.  He waited almost 20 years more (and 1 World War)
before marrying again and having children (me and my brother).

Life is apparently neither Fair nor Easy...at least if you ask those
who have been living for a while.  The most common assessment of it
that I hear from older folks is that "It's NEVER predictable!"

    
    	Although not as young as you, my Mom lost her husband, my Dad,
    	only a few years ago. He was only 48.  I see the lonelieness
    	she suffers and the thought of her not having someone to
    	grow old with bothers me alot.  I can't comprehend what
    	it would be like to be with someone for 25 years and then
    	be alone. I have enough of a time living alone now and I haven't
    	been "In love" with someone in a long time. I guess that to have 
    	loved and lost IS better than having never loved at all.  
    
    	I sympathize with you and hope that your life becomes complete
    	somehow. Good luck with DEC and your life and God bless...
    
    						mike

    I too lost my spouse, but by divorce. That has a certain pain
    associated with it as well. The relationship dies, but the person
    lives on. It's a different type of grieving process when someone
    you loved dearly still remains in your life every day and is standing
    in front of you when you least expect it, or can deal with it.
    
    At first I thought that I would never be able to love someone in
    the same way again. But as time removed me from my pain, I realized
    that I never wanted to replace my love for him, but rather love
    again and breath a feeling of hope and joy into my life and another's.
    To deny that, it to deny an individuals's capacity to love. That
    strikes me as too much of price to pay for the rest of my life.
    
    I am, in part, who I am today because of my first husband. I feel
    good about that. But I'm ready to experience more growth now and
    improve upon myself. Love is a very nurturing thing, that can
    help one do that. It's that very special peaceful evolution between
    to lovers that makes the rest of the world palatable.
    
    Ann                                           

    Like .4 I first lost my spouse through divorce and early this year
    she died of cancer.  There had been several years between the divorce
    and the death.  I had always loved her and never wanted the divorce.
    I took "until death do us part" to heart.  It's a terrible, empty
    feeling to know I can never see and talk to her again.  I think
    that's the worst part.  The final reality.  The good that came from
    it is that I will never again hold words and feelings back from
    someone close to me, family, friend or lover.  Life isn't fair 
    sometimes and we never know what tomorrow brings.  That is why
    NOW is so important.  Make sure the loved ones in your life know
    that they are loved everyday.  There are a million ways to say it.
    And no matter how many times you say it, as long as you really
    mean it, it will never be insincere or fake.  Because we may not
    be here tomorrow.  Say it, show it!  It helps you not have as 
    many regrets.  
    It sounds like you have both feet on the ground and will be allright.
    The pain will lessen over time, or maybe you just deal with it
    better.  Time really does help.  Just don't build emotional walls
    that will shut out love in the future.  Reach out.  Take care of
    yourself.
                                                    Bret
    

    My best friend is seeing a 24 year old man who lost his wife a year
    and a 1/2 ago in a car accident.  They had only been married for 7 months.
    They had been fighting that night, and though he'd never let her
    leave the house angry before, that one night he was so angry with
    her, he didn't protest.  She hit a bridge 2 miles up the road.
    A lot of people say it is too soon for him to be involved in a serious
    relationship again, but he and my friend get along wonderfully and
    she has given him a lot of strength during his downtime.  He is
    a changed, happy person again.
    If I ever lost my Stevie, I just don't know if I could be that strong.
    
    Stacie

    re:6
    	No one knows how soon is too soon - for that matter, when is
    it right. All I can say is that I have watched people go thru similar
    situations and it is most gradifying to know that he is supported
    by your friend. If they are enjoying the relationship, that is all
    that matters. They will know if the relationship is right or wrong.
    Alot of people feel that the mourning never ends...and that is the
    saddest part of the story. One partner dies and the social expectation
    is that we must live that pain for ever. The period of grieving
    need only be as long as the individual needs to reconcile their
    feelings. Then its time to move on. I watched my dad go thru a similar
    circumstance. My mother died at 39. The expectations put on him
    were unreasonable. He did not date for several years due to the
    pressures put on him. He told me once that he was ready to love
    again and he had hoped that people can understand. He married a
    very close friend who has recently (18 months) been widowed also.
    They share in each others loss and also in each others desire to
    live and be happy. They need not die also.
    
    
    Bob

    
    	Here's something that happened this week. My cousin, 22, married
    	with one child (just over 2 years old) and seven months pregnant.
    	She had some complications on Sunday, and had to be rushed to
    	the hospital. The cord was wrapped around the baby's neck, so
    	labor was induced. The baby was born Sunday evening weighing
    	3 pounds and 12 ounces. Due to the mothers previous kidney
    	problems, she was severely infected and died Monday morning.
    	It was the saddest funeral that I have ever attented. She never
    	even had the chance to see her baby.
    
    	My heart goes out to all that have lost their spouse.
    
    	Dan
    

    I'm trying to be articulate as I write this. I'm not sure if I can.
    
    Reading all these entries seems to be stirring up feelings, which
    I'd thought, by now, were at least not so close to the surface of
    my mind and heart. I guess they're not.
    
    Maybe it's just the day. But the goose bumps are still there.
    And a tear or two still fogs my view of the screen as I type.
    
    It will be an emotional session when I see my shrink tonight.
    
      Alan
          

    RE: .9
    Hang in there Alan.  Somehow it seems that when you think you had
    the feelings somewhat under control and in perspective, they come
    back as strong as ever.  But through it all, it also seems that
    you recover again with a little more strength.  I wish you the 
    best.
                                          With empathy,
    					  Bret

    	I'm not sure that I should have stirred up all these feelings
    	and emotions in people, but I feel that it's better to get
    	things off your chest and share with people around you.   If
    	I've said anything that hurts/offends anyone, I'm truly sorry.
    	The response, here and in my mail, has been positive and I don't
    	think I was off base by starting this note.  Reading the
    	responses, especially the last couple, make me wonder a little
    	if I should have, because emotions on this subject tend to run
    	deep.  
    
    	Maybe we can learn from each other and support each other
    	in the feelings we have.  Like I said before, I find it hard
    	sometimes wanting to get through a day, but there are enough
    	people around to help.  Please feel free to send me mail
    	if you have any specific concerns and I'll do my best to
    	help out.  Thanks for the response to this conference.
    
    	Wayne
    

To previous respondents:

I feel that all responses have shown a great deal of thoughtfulness 
and concern in the words and thoughts communicated.

As I read the base note I thought of my father's death and it brought 
up some things for me.

I think it is important to be reminded about the death experience.  I 
know for me that I strive to communicate completely with those in my 
life that are important to me.  You never know when the current 
communication may be the last communication.

In this way I am reminded to live in the moment and be thankful for
the contribution this other person has given me and am fully grateful 
for having known and loved them.

This note, for me, reminded me of the sensitivity of men towards each 
other.  I admire the author of the base note in bringing up the topic 
especially being new to DEC and this file.

My heart goes out to all who have lost a valued friend and partner.  
But I've got to believe that those important people in our lives would 
want and expect that we continue with the same love, understanding and 
*beingness* that they knew and loved.

Our lives don't stop when our loved ones pass on.  They continue with 
a greater appreciation of love and friendship that we carry forth with 
us and to those who are now in our lives.  I am stronger person having 
experienced love and the ultimate loss.

May the Blessings Be.

Howard

    Perhaps I should clarify. I've lost my wives through divorce rather
    than through death.
    
    Actually, I'm still in the process of divorce with my second wife.
    It's been going on two years now. But while she physically is still
    in this world, to me, it's as if she is dead, since we have absolutely
    no contact with each other.
    
    And while I sometimes try to be flippant and casual about the divorce,
    the pain of the loss is still there, waiting, as I watch the couples
    I see walking hand-in-hand, to spring forth like a child's Jack-In-The-
    Box. 
    
    RE: .11
    
    Wayne, if anything, it's me who should be saying that to you. Your
    loss is so fresh, the love you shared with your wife is still so
    alive in your heart - and you're aplogizing for stirring up memories.
    
    For us to share our feelings of grief and loss, for us to be able
    to shed the male-macho, no-tears image, to know we have friends
    through this file who care, makes me wonder if, perhaps, God had
    all this in mind as one of His reasons for letting us gain the
    knowledge to invent this wonderful piece of machinery called the
    computer.
    
       Alan

    I want to enter a few thoughts about death that I think we sometimes
    tend to push aside.
    
    First of all I believe all people are good and I try to find goodness
    in people while they are alive.
    
    But one of the things that we as mortals have a tendency to do is
    to make saints out of our loved ones that have moved on to another
    dimension.
    
    "I'm not ready...." is often a cop out.  I do not think the author
    of the base note is really saying that.  I think he is in the process
    of readjusting his life and it is good to do that slowly.
    
    But it might be a good idea to be open to possibilities.  Those
    of you that have lost spouses through death, as opposed to those
    of us who have lost through divorce, have something very valuable.
    
    You had a relationship that worked well...and you have a good model
    to build a new relationship with.
    
    It is my feeling that you should be very proud of that....and make
    your testimony by looking forward to a new relationship when it
    is right for you.