Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Not sure, but I'll bet they all smell better than you !   :-)

    Don't most people change their clothes and wash what they have
    just worn?

    Depends on your goals.  If you only change your clothes on Sunday
    you don't have to worry about being scheduled for meetings after
    about Tuesday morning.

	Are you lot trying to tell me that a skirt worn for about
	eight hours needs washing? Do you all always dry clean those 
	suits after a days hard grind? Are the women responders just
	embarassed about close to home questions?

	What we are talking about here, is (in the main) Womans need
	to wear a different outfit of clothes each day, wereas your 
	average chap will probably wear the same suit for weeks, 
	changing, it is to be hoped his underware/socks/shirts.
	
	Are women locked into some kind of peer pressure?
	Are women being taken for a ride by the rag trade?
	Are women showing off their wealth?
	Are women just vain?

	Come on, this is a goody, lets talk about it.

Richard.

    Why are we talking about this in MENNOTES?
    
    The base note did not talk about suit jackets, it just said "outfit".
    It did not also mention cleaning.  I would assume that items worn
    close to the skin would be worn once and rewashed, while suit jackets,
    like those for men, can be worn several times between cleaning if
    cared for properly.
    
    I see nothing wrong with wanting a bit of variety in one's
    wardrobe.  The same outfit every day gets boring.
    				Steve

    
       Most sociologists feel people in general are influenced by peer
    pressure in their selection of clothing. If you tour a company like
    DEC you will most often find that each area has a certain trend
    in dress code. Certain types of suits for marketing, a slightly
    more casual dress in engineering (sport jackets and slacks/skirts),
    sweaters are big in manufacturing(cooler months).
    
       Each of these types of dress allow for some amount of personal
    flexibility (color, subtle differences in style,etc.)
    
       Women have a greater variety of clothing styles than offered
    to men. Probably because they pay more attention to it than men
    typically do and men have only recently expanded their dress from
    the standards of the 50's. 
    
       When I was a kid growing up, my wardrobe was supplied by "Mom".
    It consisted of jeans (blue), trousers (basic colors), sneakers,
    two colors of shoes (basic again), and shirts (plaid,white,blue).
    
       My sister, on the other hand, had shoes of every color of the
    rainbow,same for skirts and blouses.
    
       I spent a lot of time catching frogs, playing baseball, fishing,
    building forts, playing hockey, climbing trees, etc.
    
       My sister didn't.
    
       Since MOM had to wash the stuff, she was no dummy. I got the
    stuff dirt wouldn't show on.
    
       Then I was in the Air Force. Everyone wore green fatigues/kakis/or
    dress blues. 
    
       No wonder I dont have a Michael Jackson wardrobe.
    
       It's a big step just to break away from the programming and get
    a pink shirt.
    
       never mind wear it.
    
           Mike

    re: .7
    
    >... a slightly more casual dress in engineering (sport jackets and
    >slacks/skirts) ...
    
    A "slightly" more casual dress in engineering?  Unless you're
    discussing management, go for a radically more casual dress in
    engineering (jeans and a T-shirt, or for the really bold one, a
    pair of shorts)!
    
    	-- Jeff

>    Why are we talking about this in MENNOTES?
    
 	Why not, Issues affecting Men, I am dispite the romours a man,
	you can't tell me that wifes/girlfriends/SO clothes are not
	a source of contention, ammusement, and wonder to most men.
 
>    I see nothing wrong with wanting a bit of variety in one's
>    wardrobe.  The same outfit every day gets boring.
 
	I would be the first to complain if I had no choice in 
	what I could wear too. But why, oh why do women have to
	have a different set of clothes everyday?

	My children, both female, moan and winge at me if they have
	to wear the same skirt two days in a row, my wife would never
	consider doing that. It is giving me a problem, cos over here
	the kids have to wear school uniform, now can you imagine
	the grief I will get when they have no choice, they have to 
	wear the same (generic, not actual) clothes, not for two or three 
	days but for the next six years?

	I don't understand some women can be quite happy to wear a uniform
	(like our travel agents, car hire girls etc) yet other women who
	have a choice, could not, would not wear the same clothes twice 
	in the same week, without dieing a thousand deaths.
	The only reason I have heard for this behaviour is that "that
	is the way that it is, I don't want people to think I am poor"
	I've had that from a couple of sourses, if that be the case
	why do my children have the same attitude, to clothes when firstly
	they have no idea of the concept of poor, and when the school
	they go to there are very many kids who are really poor, 
	who wear the same clothes all the time?

Richard.

    	I am not a woman.  I *never* wear the same 'outfit' two days
    in a row or more often than once in a given week.  I believe clothing
    lasts much longer if 'rested.'
    
    	I never wear the same shoes two days in a row save for the pair
    I wear when working in the yard.
           
    	This is not a 'female' issue.
    
    Douglas

    Can you believe the answer is as simple to me as this:
    
    I like variety!
    
    One might ask the question "why don't you just eat cereal or bread
    for every meal?"  Because different foods taste good, fer crying
    out loud!
    
    	-Ellen

    	RE: 119.12
    
    	Ellen,
    
    	You're too much, fer cying out loud!
    
    	Scott

    
    
    I was also programmed by my mother when I was a kid, but it didn't
    take long for me to realize that I wanted variety and style in my
    wardrobe. I do dress to impress, specially my supervisors, and the
    people that I face everyday in the classrooms.
    
    And yes, I could wear a different attire (suit, combination, etc)
    every day of the month, if I wanted to.
    
    
    It would be boring, to do otherwise.
    
    ART
    

    This was discussed at length in the survey.note.
    It seems that women develope in a vacuum of fantasy/role playing
    that is performed much more indoors than boys, who prefer the out
    doors. Indoors the changing of apparel has the effect of changing
    the role; while outdoors one only needs to move to a new location
    and voila; new fantasy.

    

    do i believe this or what?  just because your whole theory was debunked
    in a certain file, you espouse your nonsense here where, no doubt
    you think we don't see you...
    
    play fair
    them's the rules!

    Well, I am a woman, and I do change my things, and dry clean them
    EXTREMELY frequently!
    
    I wear something once or twice before it gets cleaned if it has
    to be dry-cleaned, and I will wash (and iron) washables EVERY time
    I wear it.  Why, because I LOVE putting on fresh clean crisp clothes
    in the morning...
    
    I don't have "50" count them fifty suits, but I do have enough suits
    (5),and dresses (3) to rotate wearing between nice pants (read that
    not jeans), and sweaters that I wear to work.
    
    As for shoes. well, that is a different story, my SO still can't believe
    I have that many (he says I only need two - a good pair, and a pair
    of tennis shoes :-)...)... but I do have black, blue, light grey,
    dark grey, burgandy, brown, bone, and white pumps for wearing to
    work, along with two paair of tennis shoes, and two pair of sandals...

    But for at least one man.... I am constantly having to go into my So's 
    closetto unhang his shirts that he has worn, and unhang his pants, so
    I can wash them each week....  How do I know he's worn them....
    well, I button all the buttons on the shirt after washing... if
    they are unbutton, the shirt needs to be washed....
    
    G
    

    P.S. He does keep witching about the water/electricty bill :-)

    RE .0
    
    Je suis assez etonnee que la question se pose...
    
    Depuis l'enfance, on habitue les petites filles a s'habiller
    proprement, avec soin, et a changer de vetements des la premiere
    tache (Merci Maman, qui m'habilla de jeans et de pulls a col roule,
    et qui me permit ainsi d'aller me vautrer dans l'herbe, de grimper
    aux arbres, de trainer mes genoux par terre durant d'interminables
    parties de billes !!). On les eveille aux couleurs, aux matieres,
    aux formes; quoi d'etrange alors que ce gout leur reste ?
    
    Parmi vous, O peres attendris, qui n'a jamais essaye de creer une
    petite fille modele par une robe rose a volants, des souliers vernis,
    un noeud de velours amoureusement noue dans des cheveux boucles ?

    
    Un peu avant que je ne devienne employee fixe, on m'a prevenu d'un
    ton sententieux que "des que tu seras employee, tu devras faire un
    effort dans ton habillement", que "regarde Unetelle, elle change
    de vetements tous les jours, tu devrais faire pareil", que "c'est
    pas tres important pour un homme; un homme, ce sont ses capacites
    qui comptent avant tout; mais une femme, on s'occupera d'abord de
    son apparence physique", que "Unetelle, elle s'habille toujours
    de la meme facon, elle pourrait changer plus souvent", etc.
    
    Changer de vetement, c'est comme se remettre a neuf pour la journee,
    se debarrasser des vieux problemes de la veille, aborder les heures
    suivantes d'un corps tout propre. C'est peut-etre aussi la marque
    d'un manque de confiance en soi, un doute quant a l'image de soi
    qu'on presente aux autres, un desir d'apparence de perfection vis-a-vis
    des autres.
    
    Et tous les vetements ne se changent pas a la meme vitesse, d'ailleurs.
    Les sous-vetements tous les jours (qui ose se laver une seule fois
    par semaine ?), les pantalons une fois par semaine (s'ils sont encore
    propres), les chemisiers tous les 3 jours environ.
    
    Voici pour moi.
    
    Et puis, rien ne vous empeche d'en faire autant, si vous aimez le
    contact parfume d'un vetement frais lave sur votre peau !
    
    Zoziau

    I don't usually write in Mennotes, but I can't resist anything
    written by Zoziau.
                      
    Here is an attempted translation of .19.  There is one word I
    completely missed out in the first paragraph.  I am also a little
    suspicious about my interpretation of the paragraph about fathers.
    Zoziau can mail me if I got it wrong.
                           
    Helen                  
                           
    Quote:                 
                                                  
                                                  
================================================================================
Note 119.19                      Womens Wardrobe                        19 of 19
SHIRE::MILLIOT "Zoziau, Babytiger, Kitten & Co"      44 lines  27-OCT-1987 12:04
                                   -< exit >-     
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  
    RE .0                                         
                                                  
I'm quite surprised that the question is even asked ...
                                                  
Since childhood, people expect little girls to dress nicely, with care, and 
to change clothes as soon as the slightest stain appears (thank you, mother, 
who dressed me in jeans and turtleneck sweaters, and who permitted me to roll
around on the grass, to climb trees, to drag myself along the ground on my 
knees during unending "parties de billes" <your guess is as good as
mine>!!).  We awaken girls to colors, textures, shapes; 
what is strange then that this taste remains with them?
                                                  
Are there among you, o attentive fathers, those who have never tried
to create a perfect little girl with a frilly pink dress, patent leather
shoes, a knot of velvet lovingly tied in curly hair?
                               
Just before I became a permanent employee, I was warned in a sombre tone that
"as soon as you are an employee, you must make an effort in your dress.", 
that "look at so-an-so, she changes outfits every day, you should do the 
same", that "it isn't very important for a man; for a man it is his abilities
that count above all; but a woman, people are more concerned about her
appearance", that "so-and-so, she always dresses the same, she could change
more often", etc.

To change clothes is like making yourself over new for the day, to rid 
yourself of yesterday's problems, to face the next hours with a clean body.
Perhaps it is also the mark of lack of self-confidence, a doubt about the
image you present to others, a desire to appear perfect to others.

And you don't change all the clothes at the same time.  Underclothes are 
changed everyday (who dares to wash just once a week?),  trousers are changed
once a week (if they are still clean), and blouses approximately every 3 days.

So much for me. 
        
In the end, nothing is keeping you from doing as much as you wish, if you 
love the feel of freshly washed clothes against your skin !                    
              
    
    Zoziau
    
    Unquote.

    	Definitely worth translating. I was going to do it myself when
    I could find time. But your French is probably better than mine.
    
    	"parties de billes"  -> marbles games (I have bilingual kids).
    
    			Dave

    I wear whatever I feel like wearing;  usually it is a different
    outfit than what I wore the day before, but not always.  
    
    However, I am now acutely aware if don I now the same apparel
    [sorry, 'tis the season, you know  ;-) ] as yesterday...ever since
    an experience several years ago.  I was the most senior woman
    in a small consulting firm in Boston.  One summer day, I wore
    a very colorful skirt and blouse...no clients visiting, so no
    need for the business suit or skirt and jacket.  I enjoyed
    wearing the outfit, so I wore it again the next day.
    I was (and still am) horrified that over half of the men in
    the office made some snide remark along the lines of "So...
    you didn't get home last night, eh? [smirk, smirk]."
    
    	still wondering why...   Penelope

    re.22
    Because Americans believe that wearing the same clothes two days
    in a row is the same as, or worse than, being a white slaver.
    It is perfectly allright for them to condone that type of activity
    whilst smelling like thee back end of a bus themselves....

    re.23   pass those persons the anti-perspirant then!
    
    
    Color, weather and fashion.  Three reasons why we women don't
    usually wear the same outfits day by day.  (not to mention the
    previous noter who was smirked at...)
    
    For myself, I couldn't wear the same color all the time.  Different
    shades set different moods.
    Weather may dictate different sleeve lengths and thickness of material.
    Fashion today is how you choose to wear it... whether you follow
    the classic lines or the new fads.
         
    If I have 5 different outfits to wear during one week, I can always
    wear them again the following week with varied accessories for another
    new look.  I don't want to dress boring.
    
    theresa.