Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Welcome to the MENNOTES conference.  Topics discussed here cover
just about anything related to men. Some popular subjects are 
relations with women, family, the role of men in society, and careers
but feel free to talk about anything you like within the broad confines 
of "men's issues".

While we'd prefer the discussion to be as uninhibited as possible, we know
from past experience that if "anything goes", one thing will be sure to
go - this conference.  Thus we ask that you, as a mature adult, to refrain
from entering notes which you think would be extremely upsetting to
Digital management.  For example, "four-letter words" and explicit
description of sexual practices are rarely necessary in order to get 
your point across.

If you are ever in doubt as to the suitability of something you'd like
to enter, please consult one of the conference moderators by mail before
entering the note.  We promise a quick response to all inquiries.

Likewise, as a mature adult, we ask that you be tolerant of other people's
way of expressing their thoughts and be sensitive to the feelings of
others.  If you object to an entry, please send mail to the author and
discuss the topic off-line.  Only if you can't resolve the matter to
your mutual satisfaction should you consult a moderator.  If you are
easily offended by material related to human emotions and the expression 
thereof, perhaps this conference is not for you.


Most conferences have rules, and this one is no exception.  Our rules are not
meant to inhibit people, but are intended to allow this conference to be
the most useful to the widest possible audience within Digital without
posing an undue risk to the file's existence, the moderators or the 
contributors.  In that spirit, please observe the following:

    1.  The contents of this conference are FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL
    	USE ONLY.  No part of this conference may be shown to anyone
    	who is not a current Digital employee.

    2.  No part of this conference may be transmitted to any other
    	party without explicit permission of the entry's author(s).
    	This includes posting entries in other conferences, printing
      	entries and giving the copy to another person, forwarding entries
    	by MAIL to another person, etc.  Of course, you are free to do
    	what you want with your own entries.  It is the violation of
    	this rule that destroyed other conferences in the past.

    3.  If you wish to consult a moderator about any topic, including
     	queries about suitability of certain topics, please contact us
        by MAIL.  To find out who the current moderators are, use the 
    	SHOW MEMBERS command.  Each of the moderators has equal authority, 
    	though the moderators reserve the right to argue amongst themselves 
    	about matters!  Pleas to the moderators in notes may not always
	be seen and replied to in a timely manner - if it's important then
    	send mail!  (You are free to contact as many moderators as you 
    	wish, but please make it clear that you have done so.)


    4.  If you object to any contribution, please contact the author
    	by MAIL.  (Using the command SEND/AUTHOR will usually do what
    	you need.)  Only if you cannot resolve the matter to your
    	mutual satisfaction should you contact a moderator.

    5.  Moderators will NEVER delete an entry without first discussing
    	the matter with the entry's author.  Moderators will generally
    	follow rule 4 and discuss a problem with the author before
    	taking any action, but we reserve the right to "hide" an entry
    	if we feel it is necessary.  We hope that we never have to
    	invoke this rule!

    6.  Personal attacks in notes are a no-no.  If you want to flame
    	at someone, use MAIL.

    7.  Please take the time to learn the elementary NOTES commands
    	needed for proper noting etiquette.  Use REPLY when you want
    	to add a comment to an existing entry rather than WRITE.  If
    	you enter a note that you want to move or modify, DELETE it
    	and then use REPLY/LAST or WRITE/LAST as is appropriate.
    	Moderators reserve the right to move entries when they are
    	obviously misplaced.  Please use mixed upper and lower case
    	when writing notes.  If you have questions about using the
	NOTES utility itself, ask a friend or a moderator, don't enter
	a note about it.

    8.  Please pay VERY careful attention to the following:
    
	When writing notes that discuss other identifiable individuals,
	whether or not that individual is a current DEC employee,
	be EXTREMELY careful not to make negative comments about such
	individuals.  Such notes could be considered harassment, and
	could have extremely serious consequences for you, your career,
	the moderators, the corporation, the existence of this conference 
	and the existence of all other employee activity conferences on 
	the network.
    
	Even if you don't consider your comments harassing, your target
	may do so, with possible extreme negative consequences.  So PLEASE
	err on the side of caution and take Thumper's advice ("If you can't
	say anything nice, don't say anything at all.")  After all, we have
	seen what can happen already.

    9.  If you have a problem accessing the conference, please contact
    	the conference host moderator, Mike (2B::) Zaharee, by MAIL.  
    	For questions or comments relating to the conference in general,
    	contact any moderator by MAIL.


		The Moderators
			Alfred Thompson
			Michael Zaharee

    There are occasions when one wishes to write a note or reply, but
    does not want one's identity revealed to all who read the conference.
    Because each of us is responsible for what we write, each note must,
    at some level, have an identifiable author.
    
    To address these seemingly conflicting goals, a channel has been
    set up whereby anyone can contribute a note and have their identity
    hidden from everyone except a selected moderator.
    
    To do this, choose one of the conference moderators (use SHOW MODERATOR
    to see the list) and send the moderator the text of the note, a
    title if you wish one (new topics must have a title), and whether
    this is a new note or a reply to an existing note (specify which
    one).  The moderator will post the note for you, concealing your
    identity from the readers and other moderators.
    
    You should be aware, however, that there is no "shield law" for
    moderators, and we must release the name if ordered to by management.
    However, this is unlikely to occur.  The moderators will make every
    possible effort to keep anonymous notes anonymous.
    
    					Steve

    Based on the feelings of the majority of the readership of MENNOTES, and
    based on the feelings of the moderators of this conference, foreign
    language postings are fine 'as they are'.

    Posting 107.3 summarizes the position the moderators will take, so I'll
    just modify the text slightly.
    
    Our position is that if a noter does not feel comfortable writing in
    English, then they should use their native language; understanding that
    without a translation into English, the note will be unreadable by the
    majority of noters (especially the Americans!)  We would urge anyone who
    writes in languages other than English to try to connect with someone to
    provide translations.  However, the informal method seems to have worked
    reasonably well in WOMANNOTES, so we see no real problem with it here. 
    
    In summary; PLEASE write in English if you can.  If you can't, then write
    anyway and we'll do the best we can.
    
    -----
    
    The readers can expect a translation of a foreign language note to
    follow the original posting shortly.  If a posting does not have a
    translation for some period of time, please send a MAIL message to the
    moderators and we'll try and get a translation posted.

    The moderators of this conference strongly support the notion that
    the most valuable discussion is one that is open to all.  Therefore,
    it is a new policy of MENNOTES that it is not permitted to artificially
    restrict the set of people who are allowed to respond to a note, such
    as by saying "men only", etc.
    
    Clearly the context of certain notes may suggest a primary class of
    responses, such as from divorced men as an example.  But ANYONE who
    has a contribution to a topic should feel welcome to respond.  If the
    moderators feel that a note is contrary to this policy, it will be
    returned to the author for modification.
    
    Furthermore, any existing notes which include such restrictions
    are declared open to all members of the community.
    
    Comments on this policy should be directed by MAIL to the moderators.
    
    				Steve Lionel
    				Jeff Coffler
    				Mike Zaharee

    Within the past two weeks, a noter who participated in many discussions
    in this conference, with many replies, decided on their own initiative
    to delete all of their notes in this conference.  The result is that
    many discussions are now disjointed and in some cases unintelligible.
    
    The moderators strongly discourage such actions, but do not at this
    time have the technical means to prevent them.  A note worth writing
    is worth keeping.  If it's not worth keeping, it's not worth writing.
    
    In selected topics where the conversation now no longer makes any
    sense, the moderators may choose to clean up the topic as seems
    necessary.  If any notes are deleted or modified, the original text
    will be first returned to the authors.
    
    					Steve, Mike, Jeff

    If the need arises to contact the moderators, please do so by MAIL
    only, and not by telephone calls.  We (the moderators) have work to do,
    and conversations via MAIL allow us to handle work as a priority when
    necessary.
    
    Telephone calls, unless exceptionally justified, will be ignored.
    We have not, as yet, received a telephone call of such burning
    importance that it couldn't wait.
    
    	Thanks for your understanding ...
    
    	The moderators (Jeff, Steve, and Mike)

    Within the past couple of weeks, the moderators have been made
    aware that a member of our community has been the recipient of
    harassment from another noter, apparently in reaction to the
    content of a note written in this conference by the first noter.
    This harassment was primarily in the form of abusive MAIL messages.
    
    We state emphatically that we have zero tolerance for this sort of
    behavior, and will support anyone who wishes to persue a legitimate
    claim of harassment against another employee if the harassment is
    in connection with this conference.  If you feel that you are the
    victim of harassment because of your activity in this conference,
    please contact us immediately and we will advise you on your options,
    which can include a formal complaint of harassment to Personnel.
    We suggest that you save all correspondence and keep a record of other
    communications to support your claim.
    
    To all we say "Please don't assume personal malice if you read a note
    that you disagree with.  If you choose, state your objections in
    a calm and rational matter, and avoid making rash assumptions about
    the motivations behind what was written.  Do not feel that you must
    attack whenever your position appears threatened.  And finally, if
    you feel that a note is objectionable, bring it to the attention of
    the moderators - that's what we're here for."
    
    There is no excuse for the behavior we have seen recently.  It is our
    sincere hope that no further action will be required, as the
    consequences can be severe for the perpetrator, including dismissal.
    
    If we could only give one piece of advice when reading notes, it would
    be "Don't take it personally."
    
    			The MENNOTES moderators - Steve, Jeff and Mike

Welcome to MENNOTES on node QUARK.  Please be aware that QUARK is a small
system and has a limited number of network links.  Your cooperation in not
reading the conference for prolonged periods is appreciated.  QUARK does
run a batch job that will disconnect NOTES links that have been open for
longer than a specified time; that time is currently a minimum of 1-1/2
hours, but may change to a shorter limit if resources get tighter.  The
peak usage period of 12 noon to 2PM Eastern time should be avoided.

Also at this time, Jeff Coffler is stepping down as a co-moderator.  I'd
like to thank Jeff for hosting MENNOTES for a long time and for his
excellent contributions as a moderator.

				Steve

With the addition of MENNOTES to QUARK, NOTES activity during peak periods
has become more intense.  Especially between noon and 1PM, Eastern time,
the NOTES servers often become full to their capacity (32) of network links.

The symptom you will see when the servers are full are the error messages
"network partner exited" or "insufficient resources at remote node".  If
you get these, please wait several minutes and try again.

To this end, and to make the conferences more accessible to more people,
I have modified the "link monitor" batch job that runs on QUARK to be much
more aggressive between the hours of 11 and 2.  Between those hours, it runs
every 30 minutes, and disconnects the NOTES link of anyone who had that link
open during the previous run.  This means that you get somewhere between
30 and 60 minutes of NOTES activity during those hours, which I would think
is MORE than enough for anyone.  During other hours the batch job runs
at intervals of 90 minutes or 4 hours on weekends.  If the link monitor decides
to disconnect your link, you'll get an error "network link disconnected by
third party".  Also, I keep track of who has their links killed, and may
decide to send mail to "repeat offenders" if the problem gets severe.

Please, PLEASE!  Open the conference, do your noting, and close it so that
someone else can get in!  Do not open the conference and leave it open while
you're not actively using it.

There is plenty of capacity for everyone if people are just a bit reasonable
at how they use notes.  Avoiding noon-1PM, if possible, would be much
appreciated.

If you have further questions, just send me mail.

					Steve

A DNS (Distributed Naming Service) name for this conference has been created.
If you have VAX NOTES V2.0 or later, you can use the DNS name instead of the
DECnet file specification to locate the conference.  The advantage of the DNS
name is that if the file changes locations in the future, you will access the
new location automatically.

Use the following NOTES command to set the DNS name for this conference:

    MODIFY ENTRY MENNOTES /OBJECT=easynote.confs.valuing_diffs.mennotes

If you have questions or problems with using the DNS name, please contact
me by mail.

				Steve

During the past few days, this conference has gone through some rough times.
Different groups of noters seemed to want different, incompatible things
out of MENNOTES.  Tempers flared and emotions were heated.  A lot of people
got angry.  Many got scared.

During this time, some of you expressed to me a feeling that I, as the most
active moderator, was "biased" against men being able to use this conference
as a "man space".   This is emphatically not true, but I can certainly see
how people could come to that conclusion.

Let me explain a bit about how I generally approach problems in the conference.
When there is trouble brewing, I will first put in a request in the file
asking people to return to the topic and to avoid personal insults.  If I
find notes that I consider unacceptable, I return them to the author with
an explanation, deleting them from the conference.  This action is NOT
announced to others, and may often be invisible.  The positive effect of this
is to limit the unproductive "process" arguments that can drag down a
conference.  The negative effect is that nobody but the moderators see the
whole picture, and each side thinks that action is being taken only against
them, and thus accuse me of bias.  In fact, I got some very upsetting mail
from both sides of the issue recently, each accusing me of siding with the
other.

I cannot plausibly inform the entire community each time action is taken
on a given note or to a given noter.  In the past few days, Gerry and I have
taken a LOT of our time and energy trying to head off the looming disaster
and trying very hard to keep going the "opening up" and good communication
we had recently seen happening.

You can't see it, but I think it's working.  All of us want MENNOTES to be
a place for male issues to be aired.  Men should feel free to express their
emotions and feelings without worrying about having their feelings challenged
at every turn.  Men do generally have a problem with expressing emotions,
due to cultural conditioning, and the pain inside sometimes gets transformed
into something unrecognizable when it emerges.  We ask patience, understanding,
sensitivity and tact.  There is more to life than debates.  Sometimes it's
good to just talk.  Sometimes it's good to just listen.

Women are welcome here - they share the world with us (or we with them),
and we should welcome their insights and experiences.  However, this conference
is not a "women's issues" conference - there exist other forums for that.

We cannot guarantee complete "safety" - no one can.  We can't, nor would we
want to, keep specific individuals from being able to participate if they
so choose.  But we will work harder to keep problems such as the recent one
from reoccurring.

Let's try again, shall we?

					Steve

The information in the following note, forwarded to me by Maggie Tarbet,
co-moderator of WOMANNOTES, also applies to MENNOTES.  Please see my
additional comments at the end of Maggie's text.

					Steve

[Begin forwarded text]

                <<< PIGGY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V3.NOTE;3 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
================================================================================
Note 1.27                           Welcome!                            27 of 27
MOMCAT::MODERATOR                                    57 lines  26-SEP-1990 21:26
                       -< A Serious Problem Resurfaces >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Two years ago we had a problem and posted this note:


            <<< MOMCAT::PIGGY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V2.NOTE;1 >>>
              -< ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women --ARCHIVE >-
================================================================================
Note 1.12                           Welcome!                            12 of 37
RAINBO::TARBET                                       24 lines  13-OCT-1988 15:40
                             -< Potential Problem >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    We've recently learned that a Digital employee has been contacting
    women members of this community and, in the context of seeking
    information and help with a personal relationship, engaging in
    sexually explicit conversations with them.  We have asked him to
    stop and to seek further help through more conventional channels
    such as the EAP. 
    
    Here are some things you can do if this person contacts you: 

    1) Do not feel obligated to answer any questions at all.   
    
    2) If you are talking to this person and start to feel
    uncomfortable, let him know that you feel this way and disengage
    from the conversation.  For example, "I don't want to be rude, but I
    don't feel comfortable talking about personal matters with you and I
    want to stop now.  Goodbye." 
    
    3) Let the moderators know *right away* so that we can work on
    preventing this behavior in the future.  This is important! 
    
    Thank you
    the moderators

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Although you may find it hard to believe, the same individual is
    back at it!  We believe the excuses being given are fraudulent and
    that this behavior constitutes sexual harassment within the meaning
    of DEC Policy 6.03.  We want to put a stop to it once and for all. 

    If you think you know who this person is because of an incident...
    *tell us* so that our records show the real magnitude of what's
    going on.

    If you know of other files whose women members may be victims,
    please mail this warning to the moderators of that file and ask them
    to post it.  And tell us about it.

    This person has been put on notice by moderators of 4 major files,
    ours included.  One future incident will be enough for us get the
    disciplinary action process started.  If this individual makes
    contact with you, please tell us at once!  This exploitation must
    be STOPPED.
              
    Thank you.

[End forwarded text]

This person has also contacted women because of notes they had written in
MENNOTES, and has attempted to do so through HUMAN_RELATIONS.   The moderators
of MENNOTES and HUMAN_RELATIONS have joined with Maggie and the other 
moderators in an effort to bring this sort of behavior to a halt.  Please
let us know if you think you have been contacted by this person or by anyone
else who exhibits similar behavior.  Together we can help.

						Steve

Note 11 has been established for announcements of interest to the MENNOTES
community.  See that note for further details.

				Steve

I'm pleased to announce the addition of Vick Bennison as a co-moderator of
this conference.   Please give Vick your support and cooperation.

The current list of moderators are (in alphabetical order): Vick Bennison,
Steve Lionel, Mike Zaharee.

					Steve

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M
 
                                        Date:     30-Jan-1992 
                                        From:     John Sims
                                                  SIMS.JOHN AT A1 at CORA @ CORE
                                        Dept:     Strategic Resources
                                        Tel No:   223-7243
 
TO:  Employee Interest Notes File Participants 
 
 
Subject:  A message to employee interest notes file users                          
 
           A MESSAGE TO EMPLOYEE INTEREST NOTES FILE USERS
    
    
    Over the last few months I have received a number of complaints 
    from employees, and individuals outside of the company about 
    material communicated in electronic mail systems and posted in 
    various employee interest notes files.  After reading some of this 
    material it is clear that a reminder about appropriate comment and 
    behavior in these systems is necessary.
    
    First, and most critically; the electronic mail systems and notes 
    files are company facilities subject to normal workplace rules of 
    conduct.   As such, the same rules that govern conduct and comment 
    in any other Digital workplace apply with equal weight in these 
    systems.  Stated simply, if you wouldn't say something in a 
    Digital business meeting, you shouldn't say it in electronic mail 
    or notes. PERIOD.  
    
    Statements that attribute improper, illegal or immoral motives or 
    actions to others; statements that cast aspersions on the 
    character or integrity of others or that amount to libel or 
    slander are not permitted. PERIOD.  In this regard, it does not 
    matter whether the individuals subject to the comment are elected 
    public officials or directors of organizations disfavored by the 
    author.   There is no "Public Figure" exception in these systems.
    
    Comments of a sexual nature are not acceptable whether they are 
    about the author or directed at others.  Similarly, comments that 
    degrade, devalue or discriminate against others are also 
    prohibited.
    
    Neither the notes conferences nor electronic mail should be used 
    to solicit other employees.  This prohibition covers efforts to 
    solicit employees for personal or political gain, to sell or 
    market goods or services (except authorized marketplace or 
    discount conferences) and efforts to solicit employees to take 
    action, sign petitions or support particular causes or candidates.
    
    Finally, employees should remember that it is never appropriate to 
    spend working time in employee interest notes for non-work 
    purposes.  Personal or entertainment activities in these notes 
    files should be limited to assigned break times, lunch time and 
    before or after business hours.  
    
    Employee interest notes files and conferences provide an 
    electronic forum to share ideas and opinions about matters of 
    common interest.  In supporting these conferences, the company 
    understood that there would be occasions where employees would 
    disagree on issues being discussed, but we believed and continue 
    to believe it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.  
    Personnel Policy 6.54, Proper Use of Digital Computers, Systems 
    and Networks provides further information about appropriate 
    conduct and comment in these systems.  Employees who fail to meet 
    these expectations, or who use company computer systems in ways 
    that are contrary to the letter or spirit of that policy are 
    subject to Corrective Action and Discipline up to and including 
    the termination of their employment.
    
    The moderators of these conferences, along with your system 
    managers, personnel representatives and the Personnel Policy 
    Manager are all available to answer any question you might have 
    about appropriate use of these systems.
    
    Please feel free to forward this memo to other Digital notes 
    files and conferences.

Please do not use the NOTES SEARCH command on this conference; it places too
high a load on the system.  Use the DIRECTORY command or send mail to a moderator
for help instead.

				Steve