Conference decwet::windows-nt

    Re .0, have you contacted the network engineering group responsible for
    the DE435 driver?
    
    --svb

    I have contacted my MCS support group. Their answer is that Microsoft
    maintains the driver; We can do nothing.
    
    I would be glad to escalate to the de435 engineering people if they are
    NOT the same people monitoring the noted::etherworks conference. I have
    already placed my notes and problem descriptions in there.
    
    How do I find out who the de435 engineering group is?
    

    One of the network product managers is George Nielsen DELNI::G_NIELSEN
    who should be able to point you to the right one.  Dick (NPSS::) Kirk
    and Mike (NPSS::) Condry used to help me out with the Ethernet product
    support issues.  You might try them to find out if they are supporting
    the DE435.
    
    --svb

Joel,

Which de435 driver is causing the problem on your system? Is it the
one from the CD-ROM? If so, then contact Claudio Hazan
([email protected]). He maintains the dc21x4 driver on the NT CD-ROM.


Scott

>>    I would be glad to escalate to the de435 engineering people if they are
>>    NOT the same people monitoring the noted::etherworks conference. I have
>>    already placed my notes and problem descriptions in there.
>>    
>>    How do I find out who the de435 engineering group is?

The DE435 engineering group is the same one you've been communicating with in
the ETHERWORKS Notes conference.  The Product Manager for the DE435 is Adrienne
Denault (NETCAD::DENAULT), the SW Team Leader is Janice Ferguson
(NETCAD::FERGUSON), and the Project Manager is Ray Lin (NETCAD::R_LIN).

As was mentioned in the other conference, we recommend that customers use the
Microsoft-supplied (and supported) DC21X4.SYS driver for the DE434 and DE435
adapters.

- Larry

    That's the WHOLE problem ,Larry. The Microsoft supplied driver from the
    4.0 cdrom appears to be the problem. We have not had an incident since
    Jan 13 (16 days). Previously, the customer stated the fail rate at 7-9
    days. We removed the Microsoft supplied driver and installed the one
    that is in the 3.51 folder at the mumble-mumble /pub/adapters location.
    

I also had a problem with the DC21x4.sys from the NT 4.0 CD on a DE450. The
Digital DE450 V253 kit solved the problem. See note 1255 in the ETHERWORKS
notes file

>>    That's the WHOLE problem ,Larry. The Microsoft supplied driver from the
>>    4.0 cdrom appears to be the problem. We have not had an incident since
>>    Jan 13 (16 days). Previously, the customer stated the fail rate at 7-9
>>    days. We removed the Microsoft supplied driver and installed the one
>>    that is in the 3.51 folder at the mumble-mumble /pub/adapters location.

I'm not sure how to respond.  The DC21040 chip in the DE434/DE435 adapters was
OEMd by dozens of third party companies, I suspect most of whom rely on the
generic DC21X4.SYS driver for their Windows 95 and NT OS support.  Starting with
the DE450 and DE500-XA adapters we (NPB) started writing our own NDIS 3 drivers
(DE450.SYS and DE500.SYS) to add value to our adapters.

It's certainly in Microsoft's interest to have the generic DC21X4.SYS driver
support as many DC21x4-based adapters as possible.  I'm not surprised that
there were driver changes from 3.51 to 4.0, but I am surprised at the problem
reports.

Perhaps someone from DECwest can speak towards the best way for you to escalate
the problem with Microsoft.  You should be able to use the 3.51 driver under
4.0 in the interim.

/l

    If a customer is having a problem with this driver, and the customer is
    under support, MCS should be supporting them.  MCS will work the issue
    through Microsoft PSS.
    
    Benn

    Benn
    
    Is that a committment to take ownership? Or a general statement?
    A customer is having the problem. Southern Indiana Gas and Electric Co.
    or
    SIGECO. The customer has hardware support through MCS and I am told
    software support through Colorado. I am desperately looking for someone
    that will help me escalate. The driver size increased almost two-fold
    from 3.51 to 4.0 It makes me think that they wanted a driver that would
    fit everything. The customer is very unhappy that the driver on the
    cdrom doesn't work and is blaming digital. I know that Microsoft is
    responsible for the driver, but we are close enough to yell at; not
    them.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Joel P

    I can't make commitments for MCS.  But, the support flow for problem
    escalation is: MCS>>MS PSS>>MS NT ENGINEERING.  If MCS isn't taking
    ownership for escalating the issue to Microsoft, then you should raise
    the issue up in MCS management.
    
    Benn

    
    To help us, could you get a sequence number from the call that your 
    customer logged with the Customer Support Center that addressed this 
    issue? 
    
    Thanks. 
    
    Mary Jo 

>...The customer has hardware support through MCS and I am told
> software support through Colorado.

Nit - the CSC (Atlanta, Colorado, Shrewsbury in the U.S.) are also part of MCS

    >>>To help us, could you get a sequence number from the call that your 
    >>>customer logged with the Customer Support Center that addressed
    >>>this issue?
    
    #1 How will that help?
    #2 I didn't say the call had been logged with the CSC. We provided a
    	workaround on our own under a local log#. Had we waited on an
    	answer from the support groups, they would still be waiting on a
    	Microsoft fix.
    #3  Note .0 asked for help with escalation and only help with 
    	escalation. There appears to be none. I am tired now. I will
    	escalate through CAPE and provide the 5 notes conferences I have
    	been in as a starting point for Engineering Mgt.
    #4 I have just been trying to get the message to someone that could DO
    	something not anybody that wanted to blast me for "semantics"

    Sorry I lost my cool. Felt like I was yelling in a hurricane.
    Just talked to someone in NT engineering. They have the same problem on
    3 other sites and were looking for a work-around. Now, they have it.
    

    
    My request for a sequence number was not to give you a hard time.  It 
    was to get a documented case to escalate to Microsoft.  And to try to 
    find out why it may not have been escalated by our organization for 
    your customer since you indicated your customer was frustrated that 
    it had NOT been escalated. 
    
    We are here to serve you and your customer.
    
    Mary Jo 

To add some weight to this request... or ask how this case was 
resolved.

We are seeing a similar problem with the MS driver on the NT4.0 CD 
for a DE435 on AS1000 and AS1000A's. Using the driver from our DE435 
driver disk for 3.51 seems to have resolved the issue for now, but 
how many customer are not calling us?

Could you please keep this note stream updated with the results of 
your ESC to MCS->MS

Thanks,

Greg Harkness
Sydney CSC

    At the present time, the issue has been escalated to Digital
    engineering. They have, in turn, escalated to Microsoft and have a log
    number with Microsoft for the problem. It is available in CAPE under
    Southern Indiana Gas. The Digital engineering escalation manager for
    MCS has had a difficult time escalating as documented in the CAPE. It
    seems that some of the URL's for escalation for our proposed plan for
    escalation to MS are "unknown" and other probs.
    Several people told me that I should escalate through 1-800-354-9000 or
    1-800-525-7104. Do you really think a call would be escalated to
    Microsoft on my say-so to these groups? From a field engineer? Curious.
    Maybe. Not likely.

    
    
    Mr. Dickerson, 
    
    By calling 1-800-354-9000 or 1-800-525-7104 you should be able to 
    talk to someone who can have an IPMT case (old SPR system) initiated
    and/or escalation to Microsoft. 
    
    In fact, folks in the field can initiate their own IPMT case (old SPR
    system). 
    
    If you do not get the service you require by calling the above 
    numbers, you are welcome to ask to talk to a Manager-on-Duty (MOD) 
    at any time.  
    
    As I said in an earlier note, we ARE here to serve Digital employees
    and our external customers.  
    
    It is probably most expedient to escalate any lack of service by the 
    CSC to the Manager-on-Duty rather than only expressing dissatifaction 
    in a notesfile. 
    
    Thank you for expressing your concerns.
    
    Mary Jo Hoepner 
    Windows NT Support
    Colorado Springs Customer Support Center 

    I have already apologized for losing my cool. I don't intend to do so
    again. Have you been in the field and requested escalation only to be
    told to just try this and hear the dial tone? I have. Have you
    requested escalation to the M.O.D. and been told the M.O.D. is unavailable
    but another engineer (support guy's buddy) will talk to you. Basically,
    nothing gets done, but the M.O.D. is never told and nobody gets in
    trouble. I have been there ,too.
    
    I am not saying that you don't have an excellent Windows NT Support
    group. I am saying that I don't believe there is any chance that I can
    call in from the field and get either of those groups to escalate a
    problem to internal engineering or Microsoft based on what I tell them.
    I am sure they have the ability to escalate, I just don't think they
    will if I request them to. I have escalated per the old CAPE system,
    now. The escalation manager is having some troubles following our
    agreed upon Microsoft escalation flow.
    I thank you for trying to get involved. I wish I had talked to you
    before I got so frustated.

    Final Solution from Digital Engineering C.A.P.E. # 71WB12497
    
    1. Alphaserver 1000A is the only system to exhibit a problem with
       the DE435.
    2. Digital Engineering's answer will be to phase in DE500's instead of
       DE435's in the manufacturing process. This is a more cost effective
       solution.
    3. The DE435 driver will not be fixed. See cost effective in #2.
    4. Digital Engineering has notified Microsoft of our intentions to only
       ship DE500's with AS1000A's in the future. As a result, Microsoft
       has agreed to stop pursuing a fix for the generic dec chip driver.
    5. No speculation on what this might do to the other manufacturer's
       cards that use the dec chip we sell them.
    
    
    This is all and final resolution to this problem.
    
    
    Joel Dickerson
     

                Hello Joel et al,

                This is water under the bridge, but maybe I can
        help for next time, or maybe it will help for somebody
        else.

                Each country or region has a designated number of
        people who are authorized to make elevations to Microsoft,
        under our ASC (Authorized Service Center) agreement with
        Microsoft -- part of the AEC Alliance.  For USA-based
        field people, your formal elevation path is via the USCSC. 
        In the USA, You have two ways to access this path:

                  1.  You can call us directly as Mary Jo
                  suggested.

                  2.  You can log an elevation against
                  Windows NT software in IPMT or CLD or
                  CAPE, which will come to me and my
                  team.

                (People outside of the USA who wish to elevate to
        Microsoft should do so through their Country Support. 
        Please do NOT use a Digital elevation process as it will
        come to me instead of going to your local Country Support
        people.)

                In this particular technical issue, the problem
        was brought to my attention by the customer Cerner in St
        Louis.  We did some testing and elevated the issue to NPB
        on 5 Dec 1996, via IPMT case CFS.47233.  I did *not*
        elevate it to Microsoft because the newest drivers from
        Digital, available from NPB via our website, also
        exhibited the same problem. 

                In general -- if a person from the field refers a
        problem to me -- will I elevate it to Microsoft?  Of
        course -- as long as you have a cohesive, credible, and
        complete problem statement.  It is my job to make that
        assessment -- I would be called on the carpet if I failed
        to do so.  In the IPMT system, we play the role of
        engineering; if you have elevated a problem to us via the
        formal support mechanism, and it gets ignored, I assure
        you that I will have high-level people on my tail.  :-)

                Please do not let whatever bad history you've had
        with the CSC prevent you from using us for elevations to
        Microsoft.  We're overworked, like you, but we're your
        formal path, and we do care about Digital's future, and
        we've staked our careers on Windows NT.

                Thanks,
                _Scott

        For cross reference, these IPMT cases were associated with 
        this issue:
                CFS.47233
                CFS.50008