Conference quark::human_relations

    I have more male friends than I do female friends. I find that they are
    easier to get along with. I hate to say it, but they are not as petty.
    They don't worry about how they look, what they eat what they're
    wearing or who they are trying to impress...so they are great friends.
    I just set that expectation at the beginning. If it changes, it is
    discussed. My SO and I are best friends. It started that way, but the
    passion overcame us. We are still best friends. We do everything
    together. I love him the way he is, as he loves me the way I am. I
    wouldn't change him for anything (even when he's being a skooch).
    
    

    I think you have to have alot of communication with your friend. I
    think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex. I think it's also 
    to important if you have a one on one relationship to be included in
    with some of those friendship activities. My SO has female friends.
    If he is doing something with one of them I usually know about it and
    I'm also included if I choose to be. If you are in the beginning stages
    or it you are insecure in this relationship then maybe you need to 
    clarify your feelings. See if they warrant the emotions that you might
    be feeling as a result of other friendships.
    
    It might be that you have past baggage that you need to deal with.
    
    It might be that your friend is having more than one close friendship.
    If you you might need to decide if you want to step closer.
    
    It might be that trust is an issue in your life.

     re.1  I know when they can be skooches, and when I'm one.
    Most of my buddies are guys, and they can be relaxed, cool, and not
    petty. But...sometimes guys can be real jealous especially if they
    want the attention of a certain female...watch-it! All hell can break
    loose! Or/And if they want the attention of another guy! meow!
    
    

    I'm really "iffey" about it.  I don't mean to be but my ex-husband
    had a good female friend - they did everything together and included
    me some of the time.  It ended up they discovered that they were in
    love and they ran away together during our 12th year of marriage. 
    I never had insecurities before but I do now...I don't know if I'll
    ever feel secure again. I guess it all comes down to "trust" and 
    how good you feel about yourself.  Just my thoughts.
    
    Colleen

    
    	IHMO,
    
    	There's nothing wrong with the practice of having opposite-sex
    friends with whom you share common interests. It just bring up
    difficulty...around attachment, trust and ego, for relationship partners. 
    
    	A skillful use of the situation would be to investigate what it is
    that comes up for you, when you know your partner is off with someone
    of the opposite sex, "sharing common interests". Maybe you could find
    someone new and different for yourself to share those feeling with! ;')
    
    	Issues around trust could come up, because perhaps you've been
    burned before. It's easier to forbid such activity on the part of your
    partner, than it is to go into distrust...than it is to be reminded of
    that time when your trust was violated.
    
    	Issues around ego: who you think you are, perhaps in the vein that
    "I *deserve* someone who's behavior is such that they have no interest
    in anyone of the opposite sex, regardless of the context". Likewise,
    it's easier to *require* such behavior from a partner, than it is to
    face your own ego; what that really is.
    
    	The situation trully offers an interesting opportunity to
    investigate these parts of ones own self. That's something that is easy
    to propose, very hard to do. Because the nature of the mind is not an
    easy thing to go into, what with it presenting states of doubt, fear,
    jealousy, greed, worry, confusion, and insecurity over situations we
    encounter in life. Some of which, we have no control over.
    
    	Rare is the person willing to sit with these states of mind, so
    their partner can go off and enjoy some platonic activity with an
    opposite-sex friend. Rare is the person who, should inevitable change
    occur, perhaps as a direct result of this interaction, simply accepts
    it as blameless change - and is willing to go through the necessary 
    coping processes.
    
    	Most people are so taken by the difficulty this situation presents;
    the fear, the jealosy, and whatever heavy states might come up, that
    it's just easier to poo-poo it. Say "it aint right!" Really raise a
    ruckus over it. But, there's nothing wrong with it, it just makes
    the difficulty apparent. To each their own; if it's your practice to
    take away any difficulty your partner might experience, maybe for the
    sake of "love", albeit at your own expense or loss of a true friend, 
    that's as legitimate as doing the opposite.
    
    	Joe

    
    Dear Basenoter:
    
    I think you hit the nail right on the head when you said:
    
    >but I don't want to force someone else to change just because I have a
    >problem with it. I'd rather they just shared my feeling that this is
    >probably not a good thing to do.                               
    
    You probably should look for a relationship with a person who agrees
    with you in the first place about this.  *I* personally don't want a
    relationship with someone who expects me to give up things that have
    made me what I am (after all - didn't he first like me for what I am?), 
    and my friendships, male and female, are a large part of what I am.  I 
    don't want to be 'forced to change' or have an SO 'draw the line' about
    this.  It smacks of control.
    
    If you trust your SO, and s/he trusts you, it shouldn't matter if you
    see your friends in public or in private.
    
    There are lots of women out there who agree with you about this sort of
    thing.  I don't know how you search for them, though 8^).
      
    
    Debra
    

>	I think friendships are very important - but I was wondering where
>    other people draw the line. I sure can see where a women (who is
>    romantically  involved with someone else) may innocently invite another
>    man to her house  to share some common interest - and they really are
>    just friends. What do  others (both men and women) think of this? For
>    those women who think this  is not a problem - is it also not a problem
>    if the man you are involved with  invites other women to his house to
>    share some common interest?


    	Everyone draws the line at a different place.  In my book, it's
    totally okay for me to do something with a female friend in either a
    public or private scenario.  Likewise for the women I date.  It really
    comes down to trust -- if you trust the person, it shouldn't matter.
    If you don't, why are you dating them?


>	Since I asked the question, you can probably guess what I think. I
>    think public places are fine - but not regularly in private places
>    (like at home). So, I either need to change - or discuss it .. but I
>    don't want to force  someone else to change just because I have a
>    problem with it. I'd rather they just shared my feeling that this is
>    probably not a good thing to do.


    	That's good, because you *can't* force someone else to change.  ;-)
    Why do you have a problem with it?  Before you can begin to address
    what to do about it, you first have to understand where it comes from.
    I think part of the situation may stem from something you said in your
    first paragraph -- that you haven't done a lot of dating.  It's not
    unusual to be a little bit more insecure when you first start dating,
    and I wouldn't be surprised if this insecurity is at least part of
    what's causing this.


    	Speaking only for myself, I know back when I first started I was
    considerably more insecure, and probably would have shared your view on
    this much more.  I don't know that I thought about it a great deal back
    then, but at least subconsciously I probably thought I could control
    (ugh!) things such that the other person wouldn't have the opportunity
    to find someone "better".  I also think I didn't understand male-female
    friendships very well, and that in reality they don't necessarily
    interfere with other relationships.  Now that I have quite a few female
    friends -- in fact most of my friends are female, and both of my
    closest friends are likewise female -- I understand the dynamics a lot
    better.  If I understood it perfectly I'd write a book and get rich.  ;-)


    	So, my advice is to give it time and when you start dating someone,
    sit down and talk about it with them -- preferably *before* it becomes
    an issue with you, so that you can deal with it much more rationally.
    Try to understand their point of view, and try to convey yours as best
    you can.  I would NOT try to tell them who they could see or in what
    scenarios they could see them.


    	I would also try to cultivate some female friendships if you
    haven't already.  Do so with the express purpose of make a *friend*.
    Going through this exercise will help you to understand what it's all
    about, and you'll also have some good friends.  I find women in general
    are better listeners and much more willing to talk about relationships
    and stuff like that.


    	Good luck,



    Brian

    I personally think it's just fine to have friends of the opposite
    sex.
    
    In fact, MOST of my friends are MALE...and they are strickly PLATONIC
    friends.
    I'd rather converse with a man because they tend to be less judgemental
    and " catty ".
    
    That's not to say that I don't have female friends, too....because I
    DO.  
    
    I consider my friends to be FRIENDS...whether male or female...their
    gender doesn't play a role in our relationship.
    
    I'm not the jealous type, so I wouldn't be bothered at all if my 
    " mate "  had friends of the opposite sex.  A friend is a friend. 8-)
    
                            *** KATHY ***