Conference quark::human_relations

    
    	Hi .0 -
    	
    	>and each time I tried to discuss it with my SO he ends up 
	>in an outrage screaming and saying he can't do anything to 
	>change things so "GET A GRIP"  I am trying to decide
    
    	IMHO, that's the tie-breaker right there! The problem is not with
    this sister-in-law, it's with your husband to be's attitude toward this
    situation. While it's true that he cant do anything to change this
    person's behavior, his own behavior reeks of undifferentiated issues;
    "ends up in an outrage screaming" indeed. Maybe after you're married
    he'll smack you around some over it. I'm sorry to say that; but just be
    aware of what this kind of behavior indicates: violence.
    
    	He's also abandoning you to the problem; the difficulty being
    presented by this situation is apparently too much for him to
    tolerate! I see no space in him to support you and be on your side
    within this idea of "GET A GRIP" he proposes. How many other things
    would you guess, that you'd encounter in the ordinary course of life
    together, that he'd likewise abandon you to, with that convienent 
    "It's not my problem"? In some situations, that may 'sound' good and
    healthy - but it can taste terrible. Where's his compassion for you?
    (Where's his compassion for himself, for that matter...)
    
    	I believe in your experiment of being together some significant
    things have been revealed. That's good and a good outcome of trying
    it out before you make the comittment of "forever" - because some 
    things; some of the qualities you've found you might not want to be 
    with, "forever". Like a guy who, when there's difficulty, loses his
    compassion for you and instead presents a violent reaction to you, as
    you're trying to work it out by talking about it; looking for support
    and understanding from him. The red flags are waiving!
    
    	Joe

    Hi -
    
    Sounds like a very upsetting situation to me.
    
    I'm glad that you took the initiative to seek some
    counseling...have you suggested that your SO come
    along with you to help you with this?
    
    I think his reaction should tell you a lot...judging
    by his behavior towards you it sounds to me like there's 
    something going on he can't/won't deal with.
    
    /b
    
    

    	I find it VERY strange that a sister-in-law would be jealous of
    you!  I mean, this person is married to your SO's brother; why should
    she be jealous of *you*?  Answering this might put more pieces into the
    puzzle.  If it were me, I think I would confront *her* with all this. 
    Ask her why she's doing this, and explain how it's affecting you and
    your relationship.  I grant you the other family members shouldn't have
    covered for her, but in the end they're *not* the real problem here.
    Perhaps if you talk to her, she can come to understand your position.
    If nothing else you'll hopefully have a better understanding of her
    position.  The thing to keep in mind is my belief that people never do
    anything without a reason.  We may not always know it, and knowing it
    we may not always understand it (even more subtle *they* may not know
    or understand it themselves!), but it IS there.  Knowing why someone
    acts a certain way gives you a big jump on knowing how to deal with
    them.


    	As for your SO, while I do not condone screaming like that at the
    same time I'm more inclined to be more forgiving than the previous
    replies.  Think about it from his perspective:  presumably this has
    happened before and I'm sure he must be really sick and tired of it by
    now.  I'd be willing to bet his screaming in reality wasn't directed at
    you it was directed at *her*.  I'm sure he's as upset as you are.


    	In the end you can't control her or anyone else, just yourself.
    But what you *can* do is limit your exposure to her.  Talk to your SO
    to see if you two can do things and be around the rest of the family
    when she's not around.  If you like the rest of his family and they
    like you it'd be a shame to throw it all away because of just one
    person.


    	If you want to save this relationship, it sounds like you're going
    to have to take some hard steps.  The questions remaining are:  are you
    willing to take them; and two, is your SO willing to help and support
    you?


    	Good luck,



    Brian

    I agree with .3; I think you should go to the source (the sister-in-
    law) and let her know you want this nonsense to stop.  A good way of
    venting beforehand would be to write down as much of her foolishness as
    you can remember (with dates and "evidence"); that might enable you to
    go to her with a cool head, knowing that if she denies it, you have
    documentation.
    
    I know you can't stop her from this little trip she's on, but you can
    let her know that YOU know it's nonsense and you intend to pay it no
    mind from now on.  You can let her know that "the family" in general,
    or specific people in the family, also realize that the SIL's
    accusations are lies.  Remember what Ann Landers (or Dear Abby?) says:
    no one can manipulate you without your permission.
    
    Leslie

    It sounds like you are not being supported by your SO to be at all.
    His cavelier (sp?) attitude towards the whole thing would really 
    bother me.  When push comes to shove and he screams at you does
    not sound healthy at all.  I would be really cautious at this point
    becuase he is starting to show you a side of him that you were not
    aware of...
    
    The s-n-l sounds like nothing but trouble and she does not seem
    stable.  Like others said before maybe you should confront her. 
    It seems like she is going to try to annoy you any which way she
    can and as long as the "door is open" so to speak she will keep
    coming back for more.    
    

    My take on the the basenoter's SO is that this is a very old problem
    between him and his SIL and for some reason they're at a stalemate. 
    The basenoter says that after the first honeymoon period of having the
    brother and SIL over, suddently the SIL made it difficult FOR THE SO to
    see his brother... told the brother (and this makes no sense to me
    unless a typo was involved in the basenote) that the brother is MORE
    intimate/attentive with the SIL after the brother has seen or visited
    the SO.  The SO seems (to me) to be the main target here, and it seems
    he's unable or unwilling to change it.
    
    Now when the SIL expands her target to include the basenoter, and she
    complains to the SO about it, the SO gets angry, says he can't
    (won't?) do anything about it, and to "get a grip".  Maybe the SO
    believes he's working on it, in his way (either by trying to understand
    the problem before he acts on it, or by hiding from it hoping it will
    pass).  There may be an elaborate history to the SIL's behavior and his
    reaction to it, and the SO may be falling into his role in their
    "dance".  He may also believe it's HIS problem and that the basenoter is
    challenging his ownership in solving it.  I think he doesn't (want
    to?) see that the basenoter ALSO has HER OWN problem with the SIL.
    
    In any event, basenoter, take on one clown at a time :-) and if you can
    show the SIL that her theatrics aren't working on YOU, the rest may
    fall into place.  She may let up on your SO, but she also may redouble
    her efforts on him, in which case you decide whether he's handling it
    well or whether you should leave (chances are you won't get HIM to change).
    
    Leslie 
          

    
    those out-laws sound like some miserable people. tell the SIL to screw!
    
    good-luck, !
    BR

    If it's petty...let it roll off..depends on if it's something you
    really need to get upset about or not. Sometimes you just have to
    consider the source. Of course she might get mad because she wants to
    play this game and you might not be playing. (no energy put into it by
    you) she'll soon find someone else to do it too.
    
    If she says something to your face you might want to say something like
    'why are you doing this?' 'what's your problem?' She's expecting you to
    get upset. If you don't get upset then she's lost and you've won.
    
    BTW family isn't the relationship. You don't have to even 'like' the
    family in order to have a relationship with someone. You might want to
    reconsider your belief system.
    

	The following reply is being posted anonymously. You may contact the
author by mail, by sending your communication to me and I'll be glad to forward 
it on. Your message will be forwarded with your name attached, unless you 
request otherwise.

	Joe
				*	*	*


	Thank you all for your responses and support. I appreciate
	all the feedback and suggestions.

	Re: 106.1
		In response to your comments and suggestions. 
		You bring out many key factors that I am starting
		to see more and more, such as the intolerance for
		any issues, the lack of support with this and
		other issues that anyone would have. I firmly believe
		if you have a problem lets talk it out and try to
		come to a resolution where most can be happy. He would
		rather bury it under the carpet, but that carpet keeps
		coming up to slap him in the face. These issues have been
		going on long before I was in the picture and no one
		knows how to deal with them. We did insist on a meeting
		between me, my SO, the brother and SIL and she refused.
		The parents got involved and asked the brothers to work
		their issues out. My SO was willing to, but the brother
		says "there is no problem", but it is so apparent.
		My SO was supportive at first but as time goes on and
		the SIL inflicts more pain on both of us then the
		less tolerant he becomes. Especially since his 
		parents are spending a good amount of effort enabling
		the problem.  Thanks again for your input....

	Re 106.2
		I have taken him with me to a couples therapist that 
		specializes in Family Dysfunction. My SO agreed to go 
		"only to make me happy" as he put it, but he is firmly 
		against counseling. He was fine the first 2 sessions and 
		then when a lot of issues in regards to upbringing, family 
		roles, dynamics, dysfunction etc... came up he started being 
		less interested and started making excuses. So we never got 
		any further than three visits. He feels there is nothing he can
		do to change his family which is true, but the healthier
		he tries to get the more they avoid him and that
		is very painful to deal with. Thanks much for your input.
		
	Re 106.3
		My thoughts exactly. I don't know why?? I 
		have done everything to make her and her children
		feel comfortable. My SO says that I'm a threat to
		her. She feels her place in the family threatened. 
		She's told me that she had no relationship whatsoever
		with her biological family that lives in CA and this
		is the only family she has. My SO believes this
		also started happening when we started spending a
		significant amount of time with his parents
		going to dinner or having them over, vacations etc.. 
		She has expressed these same tactics on my SO other 
		girlfriends as well as on my SO other brothers girlfriends. 
		As time goes on I learn more and more.  I have tried talking 
		with her but she pretends like nothings wrong and then goes
		behind our backs and continues to slander and 
		creates attention getting tactics to the point now 
		that we don't want anything to do with her. Because of
		this the other members of the family are starting
		to cover for her and making excuses for her and
		telling us that nothing is wrong.  
		Thanks so much for your input.

	Re: 106.4
		As you will see in .3 I have tried going
		to the source and its pure denial even with facts.
		I like the idea of writing things down, I have written
		some of the incidents down so that I can look back
		if I have to.  Thanks for your input.

	Re: 106.5
		Hi, your very right about the yelling and screaming
		and I know I can't try to control it, but I have
		given options. If he yells, I leave until he 
		calms down. Your right and I need to know how
		to close this door as you say. I'm lost as
		to how to do this???? The unstable part I'm seeing
		more and more of and I'm also starting to see
		more alcoholism in the family then I would like
		to contend with.  Many of the family members are
		saying "she doesn't mean it, they've been married
		10 years, they have a miserable marriage, their
		children are miserable and they drink to much, so
		you should feel bad for them" I will never fall
		for that. My feelings are very strong about
		making your life what it is, we do have choices
		and I will not accept excuses like those.
		Thanks again for your input.

	Re 106.6
		Your very right there is a long history. Last
		time this happened with my SO and his girlfriend
		at the time the SIL made so many problems for
		them causing the whole family to get involved.
		The 2 couples and children lived in the same two 
		family in different apartments. The SIL made many
		problems including getting the law involved with
		my SO's girlfriend and then called my SO's parents
		and lied and said if you don't help us I will
		move back to CA and take your grandchildren. The
		parents reacted by relocating them to their house
		and then eventually giving them the house and moving
		themselves. This inturn caused a break-up in my SO's 
		relationship and the parents forced my SO to apologize 
		to the SIL for the inconvenience. He said if he didn;t he 
		would have been blackballed from the family... It took him
		3 years before he could date again and thats where
		I come into the picture. 

	106.7
		My sentiments exactly, but I don't want to cause
		any attention to be drawn to me. I would only
		do this if I left the relationship.


		All in all my SO continues to say he loves me
		very much and just wishes I would just ignore
		the problems and start our own life together. NO WAY!!
		He would like to get married tomorrow and start
		a family of his own.  He would also like to make a 
		healthy break from his family and concentrate
		on us.  I don't think its a good idea unless he's
		in some type of therapy to do this. I also believe
		he will be torn the rest of his life between trying
		to make his family happy and continue enabling their
		dysfunctions and also trying to make me happy at
		the same time. I guess its me who can't let go
		of it. The family continues to ask me to attend
		family functions, but I refuse because I don't
		want confrontations and this makes my SO unhappy.
		
		I hope this wasn't to lengthy. Thanks again for
		all your input, it really helped.	

My advice to the basenoter is to say "goodbye", no matter how hard it may
be.  Your SO is already demonstrating he is unsupportive - sure, he says he
loves you, but that really means little.  Your SO's family is going to make
your life miserable.

				Steve

    
    I agree.  Run, don't walk, away from this relationship.
    
    

    
    	I'll echo your own words: "NO WAY!". If your SO is going to make a
    break from his family, he needs to do it on his own and for himself.
    Without the relationship being a bait and inspiration for him to do it.
    
    	Watch out for your own self - and you dont have to feel guilty
    about a choice to steer clear of this mess.
    
    	I think your messages were only as long as they needed to be and
    I'm glad to be able to help you, as I believe all the people who
    replied to you are.
    
    	Joe