| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 90.1 | No easy answers | TALLIS::NELSON | Are we grading on a curve? | Thu Mar 30 1995 09:53 | 38 |
|
I think you need to be sure in your own heart that if you do leave,
you're leaving for the *right* reasons. I myself try never to fall
prey to the "grass is greener" syndrome. Instead, I give a
relationship my all, and if it doesn't work out then I know in my heart
I did everything I could and I can walk away with no regrets or doubts.
It would drive me crazy to leave someone for someone else without
knowing I'd given it everything, I'd always be wondering what things
might have been like had I stayed.
Having said that, I must say I know *I* would have trouble with the
relationship you seem to have with your wife.
Don't leave for this other person, no matter how attractive that
situation may look (especially when compared to your current
situation). No matter how good it looks, there are lots of risks
involved. Rather, if you're going to leave let it be because the
current situation really is wrong for you -- and the kids.
Your situation reminds me of a recent song by Kenny Loggins who
went through a very similar thing. He divorced his wife to go to
another woman, but there was more to it than that. In the song he
explains that he left because he didn't want his kids to grow up seeing
what he and his wife had as "true love". The song was written for his
older daughter who was having trouble coping with the situation. I'm
not saying what he did was right or wrong, but the song was a very
touching one.
Best of luck,
Brian
|
| 90.2 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Thu Mar 30 1995 14:02 | 5 |
|
One other thing to take into consideration is the fact that you
might also be giving up 1/2 of your retirement income to your
present wife for remaining in the marriage over 10 years.
|
| 90.3 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Thu Mar 30 1995 14:29 | 64 |
|
Dear Anon,
It sounds to me that you've already given your marriage an
appropriate amount of effort toward "making it work" or whatever.
Allow me to at least validate that you've stuck it out for 13 years
and through 4 years of counseling. It seems that you've come to a good
understanding of what's going on between you two, and only lack a
successful way of going about "bridging the rift" between each other.
Sometimes, what the time means is that there's just so much
water over the dam that the cleanup effort is inmense, too inmense for
someone to take on. This is where you have to be realistic with your
own self and each other. This is also where an outside relationship
can look very appealing; I do not doubt that the ease with which you
can comminucate with your new friend is partially due to the lack of
history you have with her, vs your wife. Without being "taken", i.e.
having your thinking be altered by the new situation, you need to make
some personal decisions: "Am I capable of taking this amount of work on?"
"Is this what I really want to do with my own life - what is being true
to my own self?" "Is what we've had together worth this amount of effort".
Because your marriage *can* be saved, it *is* possible; but realize it
took 13 years to get where you are, it is possible that a complete recovery
would take that same order of time.
I guess what I'm saying is to look deeply into the reality of where
you are and how you feel and what you know about yourself - and try to
do that when you're not influenced by the excitement of your "new
possibility".
It is my belief that your kids will ultimately appreciate whatever
your choice is, provided that choice is based in truth, what your
own truth is. I believe kids know when parents are bullsh*tting
themselves, vs being honest with themselves, because dismissing the
truth for "looking good" or "sounding good" or "doing what you're
'supposed to'" or "doing it 'for the kids'" eventually catches up and
manefests in a shadow form - and guess who ends up standing in that
shadow the whole time they're growing up? There's nothin like taking on
your parents' "unlived lives", let me tell you...
It - sounds like I'm advocating a breakup and I'm not, because
what's truth is open ended and for you to decide - it could be either
way, that which is right for you. It might be that you cant imagine
lying on your death-bed and realizing you've never one time gone with
your own gut feelings and instincts and saying "what the hell did I do
with my life?". It might be the same situation, but realizing you had
everything right in the palm of your hand, but you threw it all away to
chase a "feather in the wind" and then saying "what the hell did I do
with my life?".
Look deeply into the things I've suggested and make your choices;
know that either way it goes, *you* deserve better than the current
at-home situation you've described. To allow it to just go on
"flat-lined" is tantamount to allowing an abusive situation for
yourself and everyone else to continue.
IMHO,
Joe
|
| 90.4 | | GRANPA::TDAVIS | | Thu Mar 30 1995 16:31 | 5 |
| I know we only had 1 side to this story, based on the facts presented
I would leave, and go pursue the other woman, anger like he
describes with his wife will never go away. I would also
not make a committment with the other woman until all his feelings
were sorted out.
|
| 90.5 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Fri Mar 31 1995 12:30 | 22 |
|
A program on TV last night went into the new study about the
effects of divorce on children. It shows that damage is done
and parents need to keep in mind the old-fashioned concept of
being there for their kids as a couple.
A possible scenario at this point would be for both of you to
do some separate counseling work on how to deal with each other's
imbedded style and understanding of it with possible modification
by each. Then come together for couple work. It might even be
separate work done in group setting. Avenues are still there to
explore. Plus explore your recent new partner within therapy.
Also, be tested for STD's to make sure you aren't bringing presents
home to your family. You know where you have been but do you really
know where *she* has been and does *she* know where "they" have been?
These days life is more complicated than ever. Do your best to
protect yourself, tect yourself and your present family. They are
still and will always be part of your life.
justme...jacqui
|
| 90.6 | | DANGER::MCCLURE | | Fri Mar 31 1995 15:50 | 43 |
|
You are the only person who can decide what is right for you. Do
you know what you really want out of life ? Perhaps you want to be
true to some set of moral principles set down by some religion or
that you think you should live up to. Things like "Thou shalt not
commit adultery", or "do what's best for the kids", or "be a good
person". Or is your primary objective security, or to have someone to
live with, or maybe just to be happy, or maybe something else ?
Your basenote suggests that both you and your wife have difficulty
(different of course) being married to each other. You said you had
been in counseling. It sounds like you do this together. If so
perhaps you should get some counseling without your wife to be clear with
yourself what you want, what would make you comfortable, and to address
any problems you have being close with someone and expressing feelings.
You need to understand that no matter what you do (and this includes
doing nothing) there will be consequences, some good, some bad, for
your self, your wife, your children, and your friend. You cannot know
all of these in advance.
Perhaps you don't want to work on your problems, or you don't want to
work on you marriage. Ok, then maybe moving away from the aggravation
would be good for you and your wife.
One of the great secrets of life, is that no matter where you are, or
what has happened to you, you have the choice to be happy or sad. You
have said your wife berates your lack of communication and libido. OK,
after a while, you know you can expect this kind of behavior, and apparently
your wife isn't willing to change. Maybe this hurts you. But you can
choose to be happy or sad. You can let this make you miserable, or
you can accept it, or you can work to change things, or you can run away.
Whatever you decide to do, please enjoy it. Don't just stay because you
don't have the "cahones" to change. If you decide to leave your wife,
make it exciting, and enjoy it. If you decide to stay and work on your
problems, enjoy the challenge and don't stop working until you are happier
than you have ever been. You will only live once. Make the most of it.
Thank you for the opportunity to say these things to you. I hope
they help you. Saying them helps me.
|
| 90.7 | | GOOEY::JUDY | That's Ms. Bitch to you! | Mon Apr 03 1995 11:50 | 21 |
|
jacqui,
I partly agree with what you stated in the first paragraph.
But I also believe that children should be raised in an
emotionally healthy environment. How can we know that two
parents staying together and being unhappy and bitter
won't do more damage than if they were to separate in order
to have happiness? While I'm not a parent, I believe that I
could only be a good parent to my children if I felt like
a whole person myself. Being unhappy and bitter isn't going
to help my kids. Sometimes adults don't give kids enough
credit....they *do* pick up on their parents feelings and
emotions.
IMO
JJ
|
| 90.8 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Mon Apr 03 1995 15:26 | 49 |
|
re .0
First thing - your wife needs to work her anger. The anger
is a defensive mechanism, underneath the anger is a lot of
hurt. Her anger probably has nothing to do with you, it may
have everything to do with her childhood. I was a lot like your
wife. My father was the one I was angry about and I took
it all out on the closest people in my life. She needs to
understand what is really going on in her head, her thoughts
and emotions. You happen to be there all the time, and she
could be confused with the real reason of her anger. Help
her understand in whatever way you can. Books by John Bradshaw
on our childhood are very good.
Second thing - the grass is not greener on the other side. Given
this woman is nice and all, you've fallen in love, but it doesn't
mean it will mature into the kind of love that'll last a life time.
Love that last a life time isn't the huggy lovey kind of thing;
it is commitment, compromise, teamwork, sharing, trust, honesty,
more dirty work and the glamour that TV and movie portrait. It isn't
how long you can hold hands with someone that counts, it is how long
you'll stay around when things are not that good anymore. A relationship
is just like anything else in life, it has its ups and downs. The
initial walking on clouds gets the two of you together, then you
got to work on building a friendship. Your wife is supposed to be
your female buddy. Unless you understand what you should be looking
for and working on, the new love will just be a repeat of the first
error.
Third thing - If you believe you wife is a nice person, you'll find
your angel underneath the anger. Don't leave her now, that things
are tough. She needs your understanding more than any other time.
See if you can look at her differently, not taking in her anger.
See if you can understand her anger, knowing you are not it. It
took me a while to understand what went on in my life. I don't
think those things are the real cause of her anger. I bet there
is much more to it.
Good luck.
Eva
ps. I see a lot of similaries here and if I can help in anyways,
please feel free to email me.
|
| 90.9 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Mon Apr 03 1995 16:00 | 19 |
|
A couple more points to add -
You may want to check out this book,
"Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" by John Grey.
It is about how men and women communicate and their
expectations.
The bottom line - don't rush to a decision with
understanding the real problem.
The last thing - I, personally, do not trust anyone
who knowingly has an affair with a married person.
I'm sorry, but integrity is something one cannot
compromise.
Eva
|
| 90.10 | Go with your heart | KAMALA::DREYER | Soon to be cruising! | Mon Apr 03 1995 23:19 | 30 |
| I agree with Judy, I think it's important for children to be in a
happy, loving environment even if this means one parent as opposed to two
unhappy, fighting parents.
You have given your wife more than a fair chance to try to work things
out. It seems as if you made a very big mistake when you got married, feeling
it wasn't the right thing to do you should have decommitted before saying your
vows. If you were not in love with your wife then, and haven't been all
this time, I don't think you ever will be. It's not even a comfortable
relationship for you, if it were you could put up with it. That would simply
be existing IMO, not living a happy life. You say you have never felt the
way you feel about this new woman with anyone before. I think that's too
important to ignore. For all we know for sure, we're only on this Earth for
a short while. Make it the happiest time you can. I understand how the
thought of losing alot of money is a big concern. Will your wife sign away
her rights to half your retirement? I've heard of this being done. Child
support, of course, is your obligation and visitation is your right. I can't
recall if you said whether your wife works or not or what state you're from.
In Mass., alimony is not very common any more.
Do be careful if you decide to persue the other woman. Your heart
is going to be very susceptible after all these years of being in a
hostile relationship and kindness is easy to mistake for love. Slow and
easy, get to really know her and be sure of your feelings for her...and
practice safe sex!!
Good luck whatever you decide to do. Don't let anyone shame you into
staying in a loveless relationship!
Laura
|
| 90.11 | my .02 | ASDG::CALL | | Tue Apr 04 1995 11:21 | 24 |
| When a man is interested in another woman his wife can't do anything
right. Why she can't even stand in a grocery line right. He will pick
and pick until he has enough reasons to 'justify' treating his wife
like he is treating her. A woman knows when her man isn't interested
anymore. This other woman doesn't have anything else to do when they
are together except please him. I'm sure it's wonderful and exciting. A
new experience. What is she going to do when you have all these new
problems that divorce brings. What is she going to do when you have no
money? You'll be paying childsupport and divorces aren't cheap. If you
think your wife is angry now wait till she really finds out without a
doubt that you are betraying her.
One more thing...sometimes people become involved with someone that's
married because they don't make committments. You might leave your
family and find out she's that kind.
You've become involved with someone that doesn't mind breaking up a
family. That reads 'no morals' or 'values' in my book. You aren't
getting a prize. Some day she may betray 'you'.
Mark my words if you do this you'll soon realize you have made a grave
mistake. You'll wish you could have your family back..the way it used
to be. They are the most valuable thing you have. You'll give your eye
teeth to have them back.
|
| 90.12 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Tue Apr 04 1995 13:04 | 42 |
|
I need to add one point after reading the other replies. It is so
common nowadays for people to encourage others to leave their
unhappy marriages in search for happiness when we hear only one side
of the story. How terrible/unreasonable/nasty is the other person!
But, what makes us think that we really know what is going on? Most
people don't see their own shortcomings, their own baggage, their
own mistakes. It takes 2 people to start a fight, not just one.
When there is a fight, both parties are responsible. Why does he have
to participate in fights if he dislikes them so much? People make
conscious decisions to fight or not to fight. Fights don't just happen.
He sure has his own problems if he can't stop himself from fighting.
What do couples fight about anyways? Most of the time - about nothing
important. It is their ego, pride, insecurity, unspoken expectations, etc,
that they are fighting about. We have no idea what the fights are about.
Maybe these two people just don't know how to deal with conflicts or how to
negogiate. Maybe they lose their perspective after long hours of hardwork
coping with everyday life, parenting, paying bills, dealing with sick/crying kids,
etc and they don't know how to deal with their own stress. All these
problems will happen in any relationship with anyone. So are these good
basis for a divorce? If their relationship was so bad, why did they have
children? Happiness does not come from outside, it does not come from
another person, it comes from within. Mature and life long love sure isn't
what he described he found with this other women. So before we encourage
others to leave and search for happiness, let's take a better look at life
and relationships ourselves. Life is not too short, as a matter,
tediously long when one keeps making the same mistakes over and over
again, because one didn't take the time and effort to learn what went wrong
the first time around. Love is not some magic thing that a fairy sprinkle on
us, it is hardwork, it is like growing a garden, you get out what you put
in.
Children - if this couple really makes an effort to learn more about
their own problems, not their collective problems, and learn to resolve
conflicts in a productive way, learn to love each other again, this
would be the most valuable lesson these 2 kids can ever learn; it would
be the best thing the couple can ever, ever give their children.
Eva
|
| 90.13 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Tue Apr 04 1995 13:37 | 14 |
|
>Children - if this couple really makes an effort...
That's a really big "if". Because for some, no amount of effort can
resurrect something that was never there, or build something out of a
vacuum. That has to be determined by the fella who we're all "talking
about"; as much as some would hate to see him go off and "be a loser"
with his new prospect, others would hate to see him go off "spinning
his wheels" forevermore too.
I dont think anyone here is in the position to advise him as to his
best choice. It sounds pretty "individual for the individual" to me.
Joe
|
| 90.14 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Tue Apr 04 1995 13:42 | 7 |
|
re .7 - JJ
Boy, the lovingkindness and wisdom in your reply sure goes askew
to what's in your "personal name"... ;')
Joe
|
| 90.15 | Come Clean about the Affair | FOUNDR::SHEEHAN | | Tue Apr 04 1995 14:13 | 37 |
|
Reply .0
My advice to you is to come clean about your affair with this other woman
and the feelings you have for her with your wife. Explain to your wife that
this was not meant to hurt her and tell her how you felt from your wedding
day up untill now. You may find out that she feels the same way about you.
You may also find out that she may have some skeletons in her closet as well.
You will have opened Pandora's Box be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Keeping secret however will only prolong the inevitable and will hurt all
concearned much worse in the future. If you want to make it easier on yourself
write her a letter and leave it for her as well as a number to reach you at
after she has read it. Tell it all, don't hold back!
The next step may come easy if she either decides that she cannot live
with you after cheating on her. Her anger may be so great that she makes
the next move herself. However she may also realize what led you to this
affair and that she has some changing to do to salvage your marriage. Either
way realize that you made a "BIG" mistake by letting yourself get involved
with another and that whatever the outcome there is a price to pay. If you
decide to ask for forgiveness realize also that you may not be forgiven. If
you feel that you cannot live with your wife any longer because there is no
love then again realize that you have a problem there as well. I'm not
condoning staying in a onesided or loveless marriage but realize the reasons
for your lack of love and learn from your mistakes.
As far as your children are concearned you will also have to come clean with
them at some point. Although they don't need to hear all the details it is
important that they understand that you love them even if you don't feel any
love for their mother any longer.
Don't be a COWARD! Look where it got you so far!
Good Luck!
Neil....
|
| 90.16 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Tue Apr 04 1995 14:19 | 28 |
|
Joe,
I sensed that he was looking for support or even approval from
others to leave his wife at this point. IMHO, he is spinning the wrong
wheels. The one option that he didn't see is to work on himself. I
just hate to see so many people jumping on the divorce bandwagon
without knowing what the real problem is. Sure, for some, there is
no patching up. But, according to this guy, he was hanging around for
13 years and raised two kids. It couldn't be that bad. That's gotta
be something clicking at the beginning, before things got out of control.
I have watched 3 good friends jumping on the divorce train in the last
3 years, thinking that the grass was definitely better on the other side.
Guess what, the grass dried up over there too. The rosy tint is gone.
They lost everything they've worked for in those married years and I am
not talking about money. They were going for the jackpot and lost their
shirt. Are they happier now? They don't seem too happy to me, spending
100% of their free time reading personal ads and frequenting single dances,
seeing their children once in a while. Was it all worth it, looking for the
presumed happiness? For some, it was the most naive thing they've done in
their entire life. And for us to say the person has done enough for his/her
marriage, is in the same as saying "Yup, you're right and she's wrong".
In my book, this guy doesn't even understand what is going on, so how could he
have done enough.
Eva
|
| 90.17 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Tue Apr 04 1995 14:29 | 93 |
| Thanks for all your comments. I may call up a couple of you and talk
about your comments. Here is a few of my own:
90.2: tell me more about giving up "1/2 of your retirement". Does that
mean when I retire, I give up 1/2 of my income to her? Or, does it mean
that if my IRA is now worth, say, $100K, then she gets $50K in
compensation for it?
I think the difficult part about this is that I have some agreement
with almost everything that everybody has said, even when it seems to
conflict with each other. For example, I AM concerned about the fact
that she would have an affair with a married man. I have to temper that
judgement with the knowledge that I also am involved, and so I ain't
clean on this one. But, she has had previous relationships with
married men....and that worries me. She has never sought them out, but
I acknowledge that she also hasn't absolutely refused them. My
experience with her was that she was very stand offish in terms of
getting closer with me. I wasn't pushing a physical relationship on
her at all, but it was months before we even had a perfunctory kiss.
Also, I have great fear that I would move out, thereby virtually ending
my marriage, and then the relationship with this person would not work
out. There are a couple of minor warning signs about whether we could
make it together (for example, we have different religions). But, there
are large number of very positive signs: I love being with her, she and
I both love sports (my wife couldn't give one s**t about sports), we
have great communication, she's incredibly funny, and last but not
least, she doesn't get angry like my wife does. (several weeks ago
when I last saw her, I did something stupid. My wife would have gotten
furious...she just shrugged and gave me a hug). And, the other thing
that bodes well, I think, is that I have felt that there was something
special about her from the time I got to know her at the workshop. As I
said earlier, I couldn't get my mind off her, and that has never
happened to me before. And, every time I saw her, it was wonderful to
be with her, and I felt closer to her. Is this proof positive of the
perfect relationship? Not by a long shot, but it's strong evidence
that there is at least SOMETHING there to build on.
Re: a previous comment. Yes, I know that it is MUCH easier for the
other woman to be exciting than the wife. But, given that one's home
life is not fun, and given that whenever I think of this woman I get a
warm feeling inside....what
My wife and I went to our regular counseler meeting last night. I feel
sort of sh**ty about it, since deep down I want us to agree to
separate, and so I'm not absolutely devoting 100% of my energies to
making it work. I asked my wife if our marriage had EVER been good.
Not surprisingly, she said no, it had been unhappy almost from the
start. I would say the same, although to me, it's been "comfortable"
about half the time. But, there are been literally NO highs....just
about 60% mediums and about 40% lows. Can we turn it around? If we
hadn't been trying for so damn long, I might say yes. But, what
instant insight will we have that we didn't have before? She's pissed
off because she doesn't feel that she gets what she needs from me
(affection, attention), and I'm pissed off because of the way that she
sometimes has treated me. The counseler said "it's amazing how much
anger there is in this room". And, we both agreed.
I left feeling very down, because there was nothing resolved. The
counseler said that pretty soon, we would have to have a timetable to
make a decision about staying together. He also said that we'd have to
be willing to totally forget the past and start from ground zero. In
his words..."this tree doesn't need some pruning, you've got to
dynamite it down to the roots and replant it again".
I guess I just don't know when to pack it in and give up. If someone
said "if the next 13 years were just like the last 13, would you want
to stay in this relationship?". The answer is definitely no. I know
that I have friends who've gotten divorced who's marriages were not as
bad as mine (at least by all external signs, which I admit aren't
always accurate). But, I also know that if this woman didn't exist,
and I was faced with staying where I am or living in some dingy room
somewhere, I would stay where I am. A boring relationship would be
better than the loneliness and the separation from my kids.
I feel as if I have one foot in each of two rowboats, and both are
slowing drifting away from each other. The answer is simple: I've got
to decide and take action on whichever choice I want. But, I feel
frozen with fear. I've felt true happiness and love for the first time
in literally 15 years, and I can't afford to lose the opportunity to be
happy. But, if I lose on both counts and end up in NO relationship, I
would be devastated.
In hindsight, I probably should have not gotten involved in this
relationship. But, in my defense, we became very close friends before
we even talked about kissing...in other words, our emotional closeness
FAR surpassed our physical closeness for a long time. It's been
wonderful to have that deep down sense of warmth that comes when you're
really in love. And, that contrasts even more with my home life, in
which there is often an argument about some minor thing.
thanks for listening......
|
| 90.18 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Tue Apr 04 1995 14:29 | 6 |
| I'm sorry, but I totally reject the advice in reply 15. There
can be no overall positive outcome of that course of action.
I also resent the last comment, though you are entitled to your
opinion.
|
| 90.19 | Dance Of Anger | PCBUOA::JPILOTTE | | Tue Apr 04 1995 15:12 | 8 |
| I found the book "The Dance of Anger" to be invaluable to me. During
the last year we too had been in counseling. I read this book and was
able to state my needs more clearly. I now know that I need to divorce
where before I was on a fence. We are now separated and tho its hard
it feels like the right thing for me.
Good luck in finding your own happiness. Judy
|
| 90.20 | Pick and run with it | DANGER::MCCLURE | | Tue Apr 04 1995 15:24 | 40 |
|
.17 I feel as if I have one foot in each of two rowboats, and both are
.17 slowing drifting away from each other. The answer is simple: I've got
.17 to decide and take action on whichever choice I want. But, I feel
.17 frozen with fear.
There are no guarantees in life. Change is inevitable.
You can decide to desperately hold onto the security (wife, kids, etc.)
that you now have, and your wife may throw you out anyway. And if the
marriage doesn't get any better why shouldn't she ?? You may decide
to leave and your new friend may leave. You work for DEC ... you
may lose your job tomorrow.
I think your therapist was right ... you need to forget the past and
decide what you want to do. And it really doesn't matter whether you
decide to stay or go. But it does matter how you do it.
If you decide to stay, do the best you can to make it a great marriage,
not just a good one. You said your wife
.17 doesn't feel that she gets what she needs from me
.17 (affection, attention)
Well if you want to stay try to give her what she wants. Take her favorite
flowers home to her tonight. If you don't know what her favorite flowers are
ask ! If she wants physical affection give her a real kiss every morning
when you leave for work. Call her during the day and ask how her day is
going. Be interested in what she is doing and feeling. When she gives you
anger, ignore it ... it may not even be meant for you. Obviously the
suggestions should be tailored to who she is. Talk to her about what things
she would like you to do for her. And then do them.
You need to accept responsibility to make the marriage great. (yes I know
she needs to also, but you can't control that ... work on your part).
If you won't do this, then get out and do these things for your new
friend, or better yet live alone for a while and get to know yourself better.
.17 The answer is simple: I've got
.17 to decide and take action on whichever choice I want.
You got it. Pick one. No matter which you pick do the best you can
and enjoy it, both the good and the bad.
|
| 90.21 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Tue Apr 04 1995 16:32 | 7 |
|
I don't have first hand knowledge but do realize that I had heard
of it and did mention it to a person who had been married over
20 years and was wanting out. He apparantly checked it out 'cause
he is working his tail off in his present marriage. He stood to
lose a LOT!
|
| 90.22 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Tue Apr 04 1995 16:47 | 33 |
|
The book Men are from Mars and women from Venus has a lot of important
information on communication, especially on attention/affection.
I have to point out that the most important values to build a
relationship are integrity and trustworthiness. The worst thing is
a relationship is having to question about faithfulness. Life itself
is tough enough, we don't need these worries. It is awlays easy
to find people to go partying with, funny, sporty people, etc. But,
how many of those fun-to-be-with people are going to stick around when
you lose your job, when your babies are sick and up all night, when
you have to skim and save for your kids' college, when you're old
and wrinkled and no fun to be with? There are plenty of fair weather
friends, but you need someone to stand by you no matter what happens.
If your wife has stuck around all these years, she must care about you.
Her devotion during those years is worth more than 10 fun-to-be-with
relationship. You just need to figure what your needs. If life is boring,
make it fun. You can always go to games with your buddies or your children,
if your wife is not into sports. When kids are little, most parents
devote all their time to raising the little ones and not take care of
their own needs. Now that your ages are of decent age, start a hobby
together just 2 of you. Focus on the two of you again. People go
through different stages in life, and we need to adjust to time
changing. No one person in our life can provide us with every drop of
happiness. Marriage is just about 25% of our life, the rest is work,
kids, friends, hobbies, etc. So, logically, we get 25% of our total
happiness from our partner; the rest we have to attain ourselves.
You each need to fulfill 75% of the pie yourself.
Eva
|
| 90.23 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Tue Apr 04 1995 16:51 | 5 |
|
It's half of the current value of retirement fund.
eg. If you have 20K in your 401K, she gets 10K.
Eva
|
| 90.24 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Tue Apr 04 1995 17:06 | 11 |
|
plus half the social security too, i think.
half the kid's expenses...
does she work for pay outside the home???
do consider putting more serious, concentrated time on your family
before cutting the boat loose.
|
| 90.25 | | BLAZER::MIKELIS | Software Partner Eng., MR01-2/L2 | Tue Apr 04 1995 18:25 | 16 |
| From what i've read so far, in my opinion, there isn't much of a marriage
left and i question if there really was one to begin with. My advice is to
make yourself happy whatever that takes. Life is so short and regardless
of whether there is someone else or not, you must question how happy you are
now. My wife and I are the very best of friends and that makes all the other
tough times we share, which there aren't that many, worth it. Without that
closeness we share-we are barely ever apart, i'd have to question whether it
is worth being married. Who cares about all that other stuff when the person
your married to might just as well be a roomate. I don't believe you have to
force a marriage to work. Thirteen years is a long time and why spend anymore
effort on trying to rebuild something that probably was never there to begin
with? Know yourself, follow your heart, accept the consequences, and deal
with your decisions. At least you won't die wondering why you never took a
chance at happiness. You've only got one life, why waste it away in misery?
/james
|
| 90.26 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Wed Apr 05 1995 10:52 | 33 |
|
It is also important to keep in mind that when people sign their
name on the dotted line, they are the same person before and after.
Our generation is probably the first or second generation who can
marry for love because women can support themselves. We didn't
grow up with role models that work for us. We were brought up
with a mix of traditional ideas and new concepts of equality.
When it's time for us to be in a relationship, we don't have a
good idea how to make it work. So, we follow social expectations,
wife do this, husband do this. If our spouse does not measure up,
we get upset. But we forgot our spouse is not a wife or husband
but a real person, a good friend at the start. We lost ourselves,
our true self, in the role playing. After a few years, we look at
ourselves and each other and go "What in the world happened to me?".
Well, we forgot that marriage is just another extension to our
selves, it does not replace our own self. So is parenthood. We
are still someone's kid, someone's sibling, someone's buddy,
someone's sweetheart after we got married and have kids; we don't
lose those facades. We just have a few more balls to juggle.
So, stop thinking about relationship as this magic thing that
solves everything, it doesn't. Marriage is the water in your
soup, but it ain't soup by itself; you'll need veggies and the
meat, too. Stop believing what the media tells us, be ourselves.
We can still be silly, goofy, sexy, whatever when we become a
spouse and a parent; don't bury our true self to become a perfect
spouse or parent. We'll never measure up to society's checklist,
because we are human.
Eva
|
| 90.27 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Wed Apr 05 1995 10:56 | 61 |
| One more comment.
Last night, I asked my wife some questions, just to see what her
answers would be. Here's how it went. I'm asking the questions....
"Do you consider me to be a friend?"
"no"
"Do you love me?"
"In a way, yes"
"You love me, but you don't consider me a friend?"
"that's right"
"Can you quantify how our relationship has been for you, in terms of
high points, medium, and low points?"
"no..I don't think like that. Only a computer nerd would ask
a question like that"
"But, just tell me how much of the time you have felt unhappy about the
relationship"
"about 95%"
"you mean that on almost every day, you have felt bad about the
relationship??"
"yes"
"why have you stayed in the relationship?"
"I won't tell you."
"why not?"
"I don't want to hurt your feelings"
"then, it must be money and security"
"no comment. But, I will say that one reason is the kids.
I wouldn't do anything to hurt them"
[end of conversation...]
In my tortured mind, there are two facts that keep haunting me, both
of which argue for different sides of this question:
1. If this woman didn't exist, would you be considering moving out?
I'd be unhappy, but I probably wouldn't be considering moving out
2. If you could design the absolutely PERFECT woman for you, what would
she be like?
with a couple of minor exceptions, she would be this woman! I've
never met anyone with whom I could communicate better than this woman.
|
| 90.28 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Wed Apr 05 1995 11:29 | 38 |
|
re. 27
But, you don't really know this woman...If this woman is so good,
why is she still single and why is she hanging out with married men?
Has she met your kids? Does she she know what it takes to be a
parent? She is probably everything that her wife isn't at this moment.
But, it doesn't mean much in the long run. Distant yourself from your
emotions for a moment and think. Was your wife fun to be with when you
first met her? I'm sure you saw something in her at the beginning.
What was it? What happened? Was she too busy being a good wife and
mother and forgot about herself? Was she angry because she thought she
did everything she knew how to please you and you're still not happy,
even if she wasn't exactly happy doing some of the things? Vice versa?
Did she tried to do the right things even if you didn't care about
those things? Do you just want her to be the same person she was when
you first met her, without the wife and mother thing? If so, tell her that.
Unspoken expectations is the worst enemy. MAybe she is just as happy
not to play the wife and mother role, the all buttoned up, responsible,
respectable adult role all the time. Talk to her in a honest way. Get
beyond the polite conversation and let it out like you're talking to a
buddy, not to a wife. Take off the masks and talk like real people.
Get the new woman off your mind for a while.
She is a non-option, IMO. 99% of relationships formed within one year of a
separation are failures. You are not looking at the situation clearly. If this
woman really loves you and knows what the world she is doing, she would stop
seeing you until you straighten out your current marrriage. All she is doing
by hanging around is to cloud your judgement right now. Yes, she is in your
life for a reason. She is the catalyst of change, her presence is getting you
and your wife to do something about your marriage, either work on it or call
it quits. But, don't consider this woman as the next boat. You'll
end up holding onto to a driftwood.
Eva
|
| 90.29 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Wed Apr 05 1995 11:45 | 19 |
|
Also, think about the fights? What were they about? About big issues,
like moral values, life and death? Or about being appreciated, being
validated, about being right? If your wife is a full time mother,
her job is the most under-rewarded job on this planet. It is a very
important job, but it a wicked tough job since she does not get any
instant gratifcation from it. She gets no raise, no reviews, no prep
rallies, nothing. Yes, 10 or 20 years from now, she can sit back and
say she did a great job as a mother. But, on a day to day basis, she
gets no job satisfaction, the kind we know here. It's the same thing
over and over and over again everyday. You are probably in only person
in her life who can say "It's great to have you around." Or "Thanks
for all this." Things that your boss says to you. All she wants to
know is that she is being appreciated, that things she does means a
lot to you guys. Think more about this. Get in her shoes and think
about her life.
Eva
|
| 90.30 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Wed Apr 05 1995 12:01 | 8 |
|
And, remember that your wife is just so lonely and hurt as
you are. Anything coming out of her mouth may not really
be the complete truth. Remember the fight and flight mechanism.
Action is more important than words at this point.
Eva
|
| 90.31 | Follow your heart | SHRCTR::SIGEL | Takin' care of business and workin' overtime | Wed Apr 05 1995 13:35 | 7 |
| As hard as it is to make the change, if you love that lady you only
live once and you should follow your heart. Since you are unhappy
in marriage I see no problems. The transition will be tough but
think of the benefits it will bring. Happiness is important in anyones
life.
Lynne Sigel
|
| 90.32 | my $.02 | USCTR1::WOOLNER | Your dinner is in the supermarket | Wed Apr 05 1995 13:38 | 11 |
| IMO the worst thing you could do would be to jump into the other
woman's arms immediately. I believe what you need is (what you
probably fear most) a good stretch of time *alone* to get to know who
you really are--after 13 years of befuddlement. If I were you I think
I probably would leave the marriage; but I *hope* I'd have the sense to
take a year (minimum) hiatus: NO relationships, not even dating. I'm
serious; you need to get yourself centered. If the other woman is
interested in your wellbeing, she'll understand, and she may even be
thre when you are really ready.
Leslie
|
| 90.33 | Reply .18 | FOUNDR::SHEEHAN | | Wed Apr 05 1995 14:55 | 31 |
|
Reply .18
>I'm sorry, but I totally reject the advice in reply 15. There
>can be no overall positive outcome of that course of action.
Put the shoe on the other foot! How would you feel if your wife witheld
an affair from you? Who are you trying to protect? Do you feel that lying
about your feelings and your affair is better? Or are you afraid of what
your wife will do or of what your family and friends will think after
finding out about the affair. The questions will be asked and you'll have
to face up eventually or go through life trapped in a web of deciept.
>I also resent the last comment, though you are entitled to your
>opinion.
Excuse me but didn't you say you didn't have the "cahones" to
-back out of the wedding at the last minute
-just walkout
aren't you afraid of the consequences of your actions, aren't you afraid
of telling your wife and children how you really feel about your marriage.
I appologize if this doesn't mean you are being a cowardly. I guess it
just means you have no "cahones". I say these things not to hurt you but
to encourage you to face up to your mistakes and move on in whatever
direction you choose.
Neil....
|
| 90.34 | What are you doing to make things better? | DANGER::MCCLURE | | Wed Apr 05 1995 15:06 | 19 |
|
You said your wife has some negative feelings about your relationship.
What can you do to make things better for her ??
When are you going to start doing some of these things ??
Take more initiative.
If you don't start, why should your wife do anything differently ??
She may or may not change. She may or may not leave or throw you
out tomorrow or when the kids are gone. You can't control these things.
Just worrying about them isn't productive.
You can control what you do to make things better for her. And maybe
if you make things better for her, things will get better for you.
|
| 90.35 | Anonymous reply | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Wed Apr 05 1995 15:16 | 60 |
| The following entry has been contributed by a member of our community
who wishes to remain anonymous. If you wish to contact the author by
mail, please send your message to QUARK::MODERATOR, specifying the
conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
your name attached unless you request otherwise.
Steve
You sound very similar to my fiance. He was in a marriage similar to
yours right down to the lack of sex drive. His ex-wife was and still
is a very angry person and he received, and still receives, the brunt
of her anger.
His then wife caught him in an emotional affair with another women. He
says the affair had not yet become physical but would have in time
because he loved this other woman. He says that kicking him out of his
house was the BEST thing his ex-wife has ever done for him becuase he,
like you, could not make the break from his marriage. Unlike you, he
didn't even realize that he was unhappy or he simply stuffed his
feelings for all those years and avoided thinking about them. When he
moved out he had to come to terms with his true self.
That was 7 years ago. It has not been an easy road for him. Through
the divorce he lost everything he owned except for a few tools, his
stereo, and a beat-up old car. She got the kids, the house, the
furnishings, the newer car, half his pension, 40% of his take-home pay
for alimony and child-support and she got to keep a tidy sum of money
that she inherited when they were still married! He also has to pay
for 1/2 of his kids' college educations in addition to child support
until they are 23. When Digital laid him off his ex-wife took him to
court on 4 separate occasions during the 18 months he was out of work.
At one point he was making $60.00 a week and ordered to pay her
$125.00 a week! Now that he is working again he is back up to giving
her 40% of his take-home pay.
I'm telling you this so you realize exactly what you could be giving up
if you leave, especially when you have an angry wife who will only get
angrier should you decide to leave. If she finds out you are having
an affair things will be even worse, believe me!
However, the bottom line is that even though my fiance went through
Hell to get divorced from this woman, he said he would do it all again
because the end result is worth it. Nine months after leaving her (the
other relationship didn't work out) he met me (at a Human Relations
party of all places) and we have been together now for 6 years. That's
not to say that we don't have our ups and downs but he feels like he
is the winner in the divorce arena. He is the winner because he is
HAPPY and she is still stuck in her anger and resentment. He has
found out who he really is and has decided that he likes the person he
is now as opposed to the person he was with her. He and I have a much
more open and communicative relationship than he ever had with his
ex-wife. Even though we are broke and cannot get married until he is
finally rid of her financially, he believes he came out on top because
he has what she doesn't have......a sense of peace within himself and
someone to love and share his life with!
|
| 90.36 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Wed Apr 05 1995 16:17 | 49 |
|
Re .27 -
Sounds like a case of "if the paycheck just kept coming, you
wouldnt be missed". That's a form of abuse, btw, when your only value
to someone is the support your wages provide. _Use_ is abuse; how
convienent for everyone that you're so willing to remain "unhappy"!!!
I've heard it said to look at where we're willing to co-conspire
with another to cause abuse to a human being; even when that human
being happens to be US, it's still *the abuse of a human being*; no
less despicable.
I think your new friend was sent to you, so you could open your
eyes to just what you've been allowing to happen for so long! The wife
doesnt even consider you her friend, yet she's willing to take it and
spend it - and, apparently, without someone else to set your sights on
- you're okay with that!?!
In the same spirit of another recent reply, I believe you have to do
whatever it is you're going to do _for you_, in you, of you and from a
positive position of your own self worth - not from the hope of a
bright sunny future based entirely on the presence of someone else!
State a bottom-line, maybe something like "either you change how you
feel about me - or I'm outta here!" As in "I'm worth far more than *this*".
You know, I feel especially sensitive to your situation because
what you're doing is similar to what my parents did. Oh, they "looked
good" on the outside, but in actuality they couldnt stand one another;
life was a constant Bickersons routine, they each sacrificed their own
happiness for the sake of "making an appearance" of another normal
family on Woodcrest drive - and I, as the only child in that family -
was completely powerless to do anything but try to escape from the
field of tension in that family system; I always knew that the worst-case
situation for being was with just Mom and Dad.
And then - get this - they load onto that the idea that it's all
being done 'for me'...I get it that *I'm* somehow more important than
they are to each other and than they are to their own selves! I *hate*
my father for doing that to himself; for doing that to me and I *hate*
that part of myself that's like him; which manifests in the very same
way in my relationships. My emotions just go black when I consider the
part of myself that my parents chose their own virtual deaths to
uphold. They might as well have cut off an arm and handed it to me
with the message "See what we're willing to do for you?" Gag me; I want
to throw up. How's that for a core sensation of one's own self? That's
what this kind of thing has the potential for leaving someone with!
Joe
|
| 90.37 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Wed Apr 05 1995 17:25 | 12 |
|
to .35 ANON
I do believe you might want to re-look at your relationship
with this divorced person. The key to the whole affair showed
up in the "I can't get married until my obligations are done".
What's that but another line for not taking responsibility.
You are poor now so why not be rich in marriage together?
justme....jacqui
|
| 90.38 | Ask the big question! | FOUNDR::SHEEHAN | | Wed Apr 05 1995 17:36 | 25 |
|
Reply .27
Hmmm it seems like you beat around the bush and left out the one big
question!
Would you like a divorce?
Then a possible follow up with, "lets work out a divorce arrangement and go
on with our seperate lives with as little pain as possible for ourselves and
our children."
Obviously from her answers your wife is also not willing to take the first
step and is probably waiting for you to make a move. So do something! Don't
just use this other woman as your crutch or as port in a storm. Stand on your
own two feet and make your decision then tell everyone what you've decided
to do and the reasons behind your decisions. There has been a lot of advice
given here but only you know what you can and can't live with. Don't base
your decision on the chance that you might live happily ever after with
this other woman for this will most likely not happen.
Good Luck!
Neil....
|
| 90.40 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Thu Apr 06 1995 13:13 | 6 |
|
Mod hat on: People, Let's be careful with Our passing judgement
on our anonymous base noter. He's written asking for help with his
situation, not to hear what we think of him personally.
Joe
|
| 90.41 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Thu Apr 06 1995 14:48 | 52 |
| Last night, I went to the library and read the May, 1993 issue of
Psychology Today. They had a long article on Infidelity, and it was
fascinating. I recommend it to anyone who has had/is having/thinking
about having, an affair.
This is a topic that I can't tell ANYONE about. I'm in a men's support
group, and I can't even talk about it with them. So, I have found
these comments, both the supportive and the attacking one, to be very
helpful to me. I feel much more "balanced" than I was a week ago.
A couple of quick comments about .39:
After reading all of the replies...I'd suggest a trial separation.
Sort out how you really feel. You'll get a taste of what it will be
to have to live on your own 'and' support your obligations.
{I suggested this. She said that if I moved out, it was over.]
If I was your wife and you treated 'me' the way you're probably
treating 'her' I'd have already thrown you out.
[I admit that over the past month, I have pulled back emotionally
somewhat, as my mental conflict started to increase. I have nobody to
blame but myself for that, though. But, I do want to say that I have
treated her as good as I could over the years. She doesn't think that
I've treated her as well as she would like, but I really HAVE tried to
make it work.]
You have to give her credit to be in counseling and trying to make
it work.
[hold on. I have been the one to push us into counseling, all three
times. In two of those cases, she has quit, even though I didn't object
strongly. SHE was the one who threatened a divorce 1 1/2 years ago, and
I said "let's try counseling just once more, with a different person".
So, I'll take blame for a number of things, but not trying to make it
work to the best of my ability, (at least until a last couple of
months) isn't one of them.
You on the other hand are out having an affair and are really
destroying what you do have.
[valid point. No defense is offered]
It's too bad what you are going to go through. I wouldn't touch you
with a ten foot pole!
[I don't blame you]
|
| 90.42 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Thu Apr 06 1995 15:18 | 12 |
|
Forget the blame, who did what, who said what, who quit, who didn't.
Forget the right and wrong. Stop taking score and stop judging. Learn
from the experiences, good or bad. In the long run, all these scores
are irrelevant. You both did your share of good and bad. You both feel
sh*tty so what difference does it make who said what when. Don't laugh
but the fact that both of you share the same sh*tty feelings about this
whole thing is a start. YOu have to fall out of love to fall in love
again!
Eva
|
| 90.43 | | ASDG::CALL | | Thu Apr 06 1995 15:57 | 22 |
| You're doing the right thing by getting as much information as you can.
It's not an easy thing to make a decision like this. It's one of those
that have big consequenses. You're the only one in the long run that
can make it. After all you'll be the one to live with it. Divorces are
one of the most difficult things to go though.
One more thing...I think you should make up a list of questions and
make an appointment with a lawyer. This is for information gathering.
Also if you do decide to get a divorce...get the meanest lawyer you can
find. Men can get hit hard and you want to make sure you're covered on
all angles.
Also make sure you work through who's going to get what 'before' you
leave. You'll have a harder time working through that 'after'.
It's because the emotions will run a little higher then.
I'm not saying that you will get a divorce I'm just trying to give you
some advice.
I also think you're doing the right thing by not confessing. That would
only bring pain and it wouldn't solve anything.
|
| 90.44 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Thu Apr 06 1995 16:28 | 10 |
|
If divorce is the way to go, try to settle the split civilly with
your wife. Use a mediator if possible. A mediator is cheaper, they
work on a fix rate $2-300 usually and are faster than lawyers. Once
you've got 2 lawyers involved, you may not have much $ after paying
the fees, $ that could go towards your kids' upbringing would be some
lawyer's Mercedes.
Eva
|
| 90.45 | reply .27 said it all ! | MKOTS3::FLATHERS | | Mon Apr 17 1995 11:50 | 9 |
|
Get out of the marriage.
Do your best not to "use" the kids during the divorce process.
DOn't let the "guilt trippers" work their way into your head. Guilt
riddin parents make lousy parents.
|
| 90.46 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Tue May 09 1995 18:48 | 59 |
|
I thought you might be interested in a brief update on my situation.
Things have been going from one end of the spectrum to the other,
often very quickly. Within the past few weeks, my friend and I have
actually talked about potential future plans for getting married,
and having a kid. As recently as last week, she told me that she loves
me "very much....probably too much". I also told her that there was
an "80%" chance that I would be moving out by the end of this month.
(I said 80% because I really thought there was a 99% chance of it!)
I have gone from thinking "I can't lose this opportunity for real happiness",
to "what are you doing???!?!?! You can't throw away all this for something
that is far from sure!",.....and back again. I have literally thought of
nothing else for a couple of months now. My relationship with my wife
has correspondingly gone up and down, as my thoughts and mood changed.
We told my wife's parents that we might get divorced. They were upset,
but not too surprised. We also told our kids last week, which was
very hard. They appeared unfazed, but each one in his/her own way was
very upset.
The next morning, when all looked bleak, and I was leaving for work,
I gave my wife a small hug. She returned it, and so we went off to work
on a non-negative note for a change. The weekend was very pleasant,
with my wife in a good mood and we got along fine.
At our counselor's session last night, my wife said that she wasn't going
to come back anymore, because I needed to work this out myself, and she
didn't want to be a part of it. She told me "you're going to have to decide
what you want, and I'm going to hold you to it!". ie, if I move out, it's
over.
This morning, when she woke up, she put her arm around me. And, when
she left for work, she gave me a kiss.
Right now, I would have to say that it looks like I will stay in my
marriage. How do I feel about that? In a way, I feel relieved, because
I won't have all the stress and harm on my children that I was fearing.
But, I have a great sadness and pain about losing the only person I've
loved in a long time. Even though I know that I haven't led her on in
any sense, it's certainly true that when I started calling her, she
told me that she had been hurt by getting involved with a married man
earlier, and she didn't want to do it again. So, I feel very bad that
the same thing happened again, and she will get hurt.
The question of "what if?" will always haunt me. This woman is my best
friend in the whole world, and I still am very much in love with her.
The thought of not seeing her is very painful to me. Just typing
these words is very emotional for me. I feel almost like there's been
a death of someone very close to me. This is especially painful because
there's been so little love in my life for so long......
I don't expect anybody to understand this, because I'm sure that for most
of you, the fact of my affair is too powerful to allow anybody to understand
this. But, that's OK....
I don't know what will happen. But, this is how it looks now.
|
| 90.47 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Wed May 10 1995 10:45 | 25 |
|
Dear Anon,
Please realize that this "other woman" has issues of her own
to work through herself as she seems to be drawn to non-avail-
able men.
The other thing you need to do is to visit your local STD clinic
and be tested for anything you might have "picked up" in order to
protect yourself and your family. Clinics do provide an environ-
ment of anonimity if you don't want to involve your family doctor.
Realize down the road that you and your wife might just get started
into a neat relationship of love and friendship that you would have
missed out on by climbing over the fence to what you now think is
"the ideal relationship"! You will now have your family with you
in this new journey to the future. Think of the joy and happiness
that can come of this.
Your wife is being wise in letting you work this issue out for
yourself. Once your decision is solidified, then both of you can
work the new future road to travel together.
justme....jacqui
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| 90.48 | | WRKSYS::MACKAY_E | | Wed May 10 1995 11:17 | 16 |
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I think your friend has to take responsiblity in her own
actions in getting involved with married men. You are not
hurting her, she is hurting herself by placing herself in
unfavorable situations and she has to learn that.
Sounds like you have a second chance in your marriage to
get it right. Learn from your experiences, the ups and downs.
You should be wiser now ;-).
Good luck, stay focused and enjoy life,
Eva
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| 90.49 | | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Your mind is in here and mine is also | Wed May 10 1995 11:44 | 22 |
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Re - .46
>This morning, when she woke up, she put her arm around me. And, when
>she left for work, she gave me a kiss.
That's nice. Big change too - wonder what spurned it on? I hope for
you that it stays that way; doesnt just go back to the way it was once
the "heat's off" or whatever. Really, good luck with it.
>Right now, I would have to say that it looks like I will stay in my
>marriage. How do I feel about that? In a way, I feel relieved, because
>I won't have all the stress and harm on my children that I was fearing.
Guilt and fear - now _there's_ a couple of good reasons to...ah!
I have the feeling I'm going to be labled some sort of "relationship
destroyer". Like I said; good luck with it. I sincerely hope you dont
have to turn everyone's world upside down again in the future, in order
to gain the affection you need. Let there not be a circular quality to
that dynamic for you!
Joe
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| 90.50 | Reply from anonymous author of base note | QUARK::MODERATOR | | Wed Aug 09 1995 11:21 | 27 |
| [If you would like me to forward your reply to the basenote author,
please say so in your reply. - Steve]
I am the base noter. I have left Digital. I may not be able to see
your reply, but I have to get this out of me.
After months of stress trying to decide what to do, I moved out around
July 20. Almost immediately, I realized it was the biggest mistake of
my life. (as many of you predicted). I am living in a small room, and
am absolutely miserable. My wife has started to like her new-found
freedom, and gives every indication of wanting it to stay this way.
I am sleeping about 3-4 hours per night. I go through the day like a
walking zombie. I spend much of each day, sitting in my office trying
not to cry. Most of my drive to work, and back home is spent crying
hysterically.
For the first time in my life, I am seriously considering suicide. I'm
not strong enough to endure this pain for much longer. I just can't
take it anymore. Nothing in my life (which has been somewhat
difficult) even remotely compares to the pain I'm in. When I wake up
in the morning, I start to cry because I've got another day of pain
ahead of me. I know it takes several years to go through and get over
a divorce, and I just don't have it in me.
The sense of loss and sadness is simply too much for me to bear
anymore.
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