Conference quark::human_relations

 Ask yourself one question, What exactly is it that I'm trying to hold onto?

 It doesn't sound like much.  

 I did the counseling and all that other bullshit, it just seemed like 
 another place for my ex-wife to shit all over me. I was already
 feeling low and I didn't need organized, weekly sessions with the touchy-feely
 guy and her using me for target practice.  Witholding of affection and the
 silent treatment ... are all forms of emotional abuse - so says the counselor.
 Stop playing these games, stop drinking and do something, don't wait for her
 to tell you what your next move is.  Pick yourself up and move along. 
 Talk to your children, you'll be surprised at what they already know about
 what is going on between you two. See them whenever you feel like it and not
 when she says it's O.K.,  who cares what she thinks?  You already have a lawyer 
 - excellent, you'll need him. Please, don't be a wussy when it comes to dealing
 with your wife, have some self-respect.

   

 Take charge of your life

    I'm very sorry to hear that you are going through something like this.
    
    Your wife really doesn't know what the 'real' world is. She doesn't
    know what hardship 'is'. She must feel like she is missing something to
    feel strongly enough to divorce.
    
    You either grow together or you grow apart. It sounds like you two have
    grown far enough apart that she wants something else.
    
    Sometimes a separation is enough for both of you to figure out what is
    what. We all do things sometimes to contribute to a situation.
    Sometimes it escalates to a point where separation and divorce is the
    only solution. If you were going to counseling and getting sick then
    you must of touched some 'hot' spots. 
    
    I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy. There isn't anything anyone
    can do to take away the pain. It does get better.
    
    
    

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    	Re .0 -
    
    	A couple of thoughts; while your daily business seems to be in
    balance, the "other half" of life seems to not be. Guess what? That
    "the chores and financial hardships" are perhaps shared equally, does 
    not a successful relationship make! So *who's* out of touch with reality?
    If you think it's her...well, that only says just as much about *you*.
    
    	Drop the "afterdinner companion", to help clarify things for you.
    Forget about "relief" in this way as an option to even consider. If your
    reality is too much pain to step into without "taking some of this with 
    you" or "looking forward to it afterward", perhaps there's another problem
    compounding and confounding things in your life.
    
    	I sense that you're a very rational guy - I mean, after all, you
    do "your share", why should she want a divorce? Perhaps some of the
    things brought up in counseling that feel like *such an indictment* to
    you do so because they conflict directly with how you've got everything
    worked out about yourself up in your head.
    
    	I can empathize with your feeling ill prior to the sessions,
    given that the counselor is attempting to tear down your rational
    reality. I can see how that would be a *very* threatening experience for 
    you. Allow me to say that it takes a very open mind to entertain 
    alternatives to "the way one is". To sit with the discomfort of 
    confrontation, without balking at it. To take a step into what it would 
    mean given that some belief you've worked out for yourself is, in fact, 
    incorrect. Is "wrong" as you say.
    
    	It's very hard, as I can sense by your implied relief when the
    sessions stopped. It *is* very hard - not for just you, but for
    everyone. So, you're not alone. I used to do the "afterdinner companion"
    routine and you wouldnt believe the *layers* of rationale' I had to
    all set up in me to justify that behavior. For me, that was just the 
    beginning. 
    
    	In life, I've learned that you can only "avoid" the conflict, the
    hassle, being open to "what is" for so long - before it blows up or
    manefests in some way that's simply *worse* - like a divorce! I hang
    around those who sometimes say that when the pain gets bad enough -
    you'll do something about it. You'll do *whatever it takes*. It's too bad 
    that for some, it has to get to that point. For me, I was headed there but 
    I - somehow - became willing and open *real quick* to ideas that challenged 
    my rationalizations and how I had my beliefs about myself worked out.
    
    	I was lucky that this happened in my 30s. I have longed that it
    happened in my 20s, but I certainly didnt have the willingness it takes
    back then! Maybe in being faced with what you're being faced with, you'll
    be able to find it in yourself, perhaps just in time. I hope so, for
    everyone's sake!
    
    	Joe

    I attended a class before church on Sunday where a counselor discussed 
    Grief and Growth.  He handed out a Life Function wheel that originated
    at a point of loss and then followed through with the denial, shock,
    anger/protest, disorganization, recovery and reorganization.  Under 
    each category were listed the manifestations of thinking feeling,
    bodily mainfestations, social/antisocial behaviour, defenses and
    caring/helping responses.  Not a wheel to be taken lightly.
    He also pointed out that regardless of how long you stay within
    that wheel and regardless of how much help or healing you go through,
    you never end up where you began. "G.K. Chesterton...'You can't go
    home again'".
    
    Where you seem to be is on the verge of "going there."  You have 
    the ability to decide if and what you want to do about it.  If you
    don't consider some of what Joe said in the previous note, i.e.
    evaluate you first, you will have no choice but to find yourself
    on that wheel headed inextricably through most of those phases.
    There is a lot of help you can get alone or together.  If you don't
    like one therapist, don't stop there.  It is worth it to pay for
    one outside of your insurance if they are good and they speak the
    language that "reaches" you.  Getting one that either says what
    you want to hear, or jumps straight to the conclusion that "Oh,
    divorce is a way of life, let me help you deal with it", then 
    perhaps that therapist doesn't value marriage a whole lot.
    If you are going to pay the money, ask their experience with similar
    situations an their track record.  It's your life and your wife.
    You will not have that option again in this life.  Next time it
    will be  different....maybe better and maybe worse, but never the same.
    
    Often, if you take it too lightly, you will go deeper during the
    aftermath pain and pray to God you had thought harder, tried harder
    etc.  There are a lot of books about your situation....they do not
    have your name on them, but you can find them with your story in them
    if you look.  Most family psychologists believe marriages can be
    saved if you really want and work at it.  You have invested so much
    into it that no one stands to gain more than the two of you and 
    the potential to actually make it deeper exists.  However, it rarely
    works after one leaves and the tie is broken. (Rekindled by Pat
    and Jill Williams is one of those books.  He was the general manger
    of the 76ers. and it is a story of what he realized he needed to do
    to himself first before she could find a reason to love him or herself
    again.)
    
    Peace
    
    Jim

    I went through this 3 years ago, after 7 years of marriage,
    one 10 month separation and a year and a half of counseling.
    It's not easy going to a counselor and listening to them tell
    you you are wrong, but a good counselor will show you where
    you are BOTH off-base, and will not let your wife "dump" on
    you.  While we were in couples counseling, we also each saw
    a different individual counseler once a week.  This was 
    extremely beneficial, since each of us had a person we could
    talk with who was "on our side".  And after all that work,
    we still wound up divorced 4 years later.  And I think it's for
    the best.  He's remarried, and I have a very good relationship 
    with my SO.  Once you find a good relationship, it's surprising
    all the little things you'd forgotten you missed and how much
    they really mean to you.  We were lucky, we had no children,
    and dealing with my SO's two kids from his divorce, I can see
    some of the problems and the pain.  But I can also see that
    my SO has more patience and a better sense of humor and fun
    around his son now, than (from what he's told me) he did 
    previously. I think removing some of the burden makes a 
    difference in your energy, your patience, and your ability
    to have fun with your kids.
    
    Mary-Michael

    The moment you mentioned that your wife gives you the "cold shoulder",
    is a definite indication that she has some type of resentment towards
    you.  Most of the time, it is due to a misunderstanding or perhaps she
    feels that you are not be sensitive to her feelings on something she
    feels is important to her.  You may not even be aware that you have
    done anything wrong.  Communication and honesty is the key.  Many
    times, I find that it is not even what my husband says to me, but the
    attitude in which it is said that hurts more than anything else.  
    Most of the time he does not even realize he has hurt my feelings. 
    If I do not let him know right away, I found myself starting to resent
    him for the smallest details; hence, this can snowball into something
    that is totally unnecessary and can be resolved with a
    "heart-to-heart".
    
    If you really love each other.  Listen and respect each other.  You may
    not agree with each other all the time of course, but the key is to
    Listen and not attack; respect each others feelings.
    
    I truly hope you can work things out.  Marriage is really special.  Too
    many people are ready to give-up these days.  I will never forget a
    saying that my husband and I learned in a class at church in
    preparation of our marriage:  "marriage is not 50/50......it is
    100/100!!
    
    I think that says quite a bit.  
    /Z
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

This sounds like a tough situation.  The counseling seemed like it might
go somewhere, but I can sure understand that it got too painful for you.

Please update us.  What has happened since March ?  It's August now...

Thanks.

/Eric