Conference quark::human_relations

    good point
    
    
    

    I have a friend who I met in a hospital who is dying of AIDS.  I like
    him alot and I enjoy spending time with him.  The only thing is I 
    don't know what to say to him when he gets depressed and does not want
    to go on living.  I think he thinks I sound like an ass when I try to
    cheer him up.  He gets so sad I don't know what to do or say.  I don't
    have anyone else I can talk to about this because the people in my
    social circle don't understand.  They are afraid of people with AIDS. 
    I am afraid of AIDS but not the people who have it.  My friend is a
    wonderful person who has alot to offer the world but I don't think he
    knows it.  He was diagnosed with HIV in 84 and now has full blown AIDS. 
    He goes through life like he is dead already instead of making the most
    of the time he has left.  Do I sound stupid saying things like this.  I
    don't want to hurt his feelings and when are together I almost feel
    like I have to walk on egg shells when he starts talking about how he
    feels depressed and wants to kill himself.  I don't know if this is
    important to anyone else but it is to me and any advise would be great.
    
    
    kim

Kim, 

I understand what you're going through. We've been presented with so many
positive images of people with AIDS being humourous and life-loving that the
real thing is a shock. (Not that Andy Lippincott in Doonesbury or Angels in
America are bad things in themselves.) The closest friend I've had who's died of
AIDS seemed to live and die up to the ideal. I didn't see him for a year or so
before he died, but the disease obviously was going to destroy a lot of the
ordinary things I and his friends liked in him (like his appearance and his
total patience). 

You are helping your friend by accepting his humanity in spite of physical and
mental distortions and pain. He has a right to die like a human being, with the
chance to know that people love him. But what he's going through means he can't
do this on his own: he needs others to assert his humanity.

The only thing I'd say to you is: don't internalise his despair. You are doing
good by spending some of your life with him. Don't devalue the part of the life
you are sharing with him. For yourself as well as for your friend, keep a part
of yourself out of sympathy with him. You have a lot of grief to cope with now,
and will have a painful period of mourning soon. Consider why he is wrong to
despair, but respect his right to think for himself.

Love,

Helen

    Kim,
    
    It may very well be that there's a support group in your area for
    loving friends of people living with AIDS.  If so, they could really
    help you with not internalizing the depression, as .3 noted, and with
    the problem of being upbeat without sounding goofy or discounting your
    friend's very real pain and depression.  Your paper's calendar section
    (Thursday?  Weekend?) might give you some pointers, or EAP might know
    of a group.
    
    With admiration,
    Leslie
    
    

    My brother has full blown AIDs. It was a really hard thing to go
    through when he called to tell me. He wanted it to be kept a secret
    because he wasn't ready to tell my parents about it and some of my
    other siblings didn't know yet either. Last August he finally told my
    parents and then last October my grandfather died. He went to the
    funeral and my parents drove him out to the airport. I'm not sure
    exactly what happened but mother isn't taking it well and he won't talk
    to her. Somehow they tried to pull me into the middle of their
    aurgument...which really upset me. My brother lives in Oregon...my
    parents in Georgia...and I'm in Mass. I told my mother that life is too
    short to be carrying on this way. She wants to sell everything and move
    to Oregon and take care of her baby...this is the last thing in the
    world that my brother wants. Whew...what a 'major' rift this has caused
    in the family. I finally had to come to terms and not internalize all
    this. 
    
    At first I grieved...then came to terms and now I'm closer to my
    brother than I have been for years. He's very emotional about it. I
    want to fly to Ca and drive up the Oregon coast this summer with my
    sister and see him at least one more time before he dies....
        

    that is real sad, I don't know how I would handle it, but you are doing
    real well, keep it up. It makes one appreciate what we have, or don't
    have.... thanks..
    
    	Bob R.

    Kim,


>    I have a friend who I met in a hospital who is dying of AIDS.  I like
>    him alot and I enjoy spending time with him.  The only thing is I 
>    don't know what to say to him when he gets depressed and does not want
>    to go on living.


    	This is a really tough thing.  I suspect different people have
    different ways of handling this.  I can only tell you what I try to do.


    	There was a time when in a situation like this I probably would
    have said the first thing that entered my mind, something humorous,
    something clever -- SOMEthing to cover up the awkwardness of the
    moment.  Or perhaps my own feelings.  I don't think it ever worked.  It
    usually only makes things worse.  Now if a situation arises and I can't
    think of anything to say, I don't say anything.  It may very well be
    that the person wasn't looking for any insight or advice, but just a
    friendly ear to tell it to.


    	There's a line at the end of "A River Runs Through it" that I
    really like.  Tom Skerritt, a minister, is giving a sermon and talks
    about why it is that those most in need don't want to accept help.  He
    says, "It may be that the part of us we have to give is not sufficient,
    or more likely that what we have to offer is not wanted."  All that you
    can do is what you can do.


>                  I think he thinks I sound like an ass when I try to
>    cheer him up.  He gets so sad I don't know what to do or say.  I don't
>    have anyone else I can talk to about this because the people in my
>    social circle don't understand.  They are afraid of people with AIDS. 
>    I am afraid of AIDS but not the people who have it.  My friend is a
>    wonderful person who has alot to offer the world but I don't think he
>    knows it.  He was diagnosed with HIV in 84 and now has full blown AIDS. 
>    He goes through life like he is dead already instead of making the most
>    of the time he has left.  


    	I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to cheer someone
    up.  But you have to take stock of the situation and decide if that's
    what's most appropriate or needed.  It may be that your friend only has
    you to talk to about these things (though that seems unlikely to me).
    He's bound to have a tremendous amount of depression and sadness built
    up inside of him, and like all emotions it needs to find release.  It
    might not hurt to (discreetly, delicately) inquire and find out if he
    talks to others about this.  As a friend you can expect he will have
    this type of need, but on the other hand it doesn't seem fair that you
    bear *all* the burden either.  If he hasn't already you might consider
    mentioning support groups and such to help him through this.


>                          Do I sound stupid saying things like this.  I
>    don't want to hurt his feelings and when are together I almost feel
>    like I have to walk on egg shells when he starts talking about how he
>    feels depressed and wants to kill himself.  I don't know if this is
>    important to anyone else but it is to me and any advise would be great.


    	No, not at all.  This is a very hard situation (ironic isn't it
    that all growth in life seems to come from the hard things we do), and
    in your position I would likely feel a lot of the same things.  I've
    never had a friend who was dying, and I'm honestly not sure exactly how
    it would affect me and how I would deal with it.  I do know I would
    need my other friends to help me through it.


    	Can you talk to him, openly, about these things the way you have
    entered them here?  I can understand why you would be reticent about
    doing so, but on the other hand if he is your friend I would think he'd
    understand why you need to discuss this stuff.  Walking on eggshells is
    not a good sign.  It sounds like you are internalizing his pain, and
    what others have already said about trying not to do this makes sense.
    The hard part of course is that since he *is* your friend, it's very
    difficult to not do this.  Find someone to talk to about it; the only
    thing I've ever found that helped with something like this is to talk
    about it.


    	Good luck -- hang in there,



    Brian
    

    A good friend of mine, Sean, died three weeks ago (22 March).  We spent
    a lot of time together in '84-89.  He moved to CA from MA and we didn't
    keep in real good touch since then.  Though I knew he had AIDS, I let
    the years slip by and never got a chance to say goodbye.  He wrote some
    excellent parting words last month, which I'll share here:
    
            I was brought up to believe that the sky was my limit
            and that I could accomplish anything I set my mind upon.
            Possibly out of this arose a respect for self-reliance
            and a need to be in control of my situation.  And I felt
            that this was the way everyone should feel.  A bit
            like a John Wayne western:  "Honey, grab the kids and I'll
            get the shotgun; we'll defend our land."  I valued greatly
            this self-reliance.  But people are social creatures and
            cannot live in a vacuum terribly successfully.  We need
            to interact, to be dependent upon each other to some degree.
            As I was unable even to give myself a sponge bath, I was not
            in control; I was not in line with my own expectations.
            What was wrong?  I learned that this tenet of my belief
            system was flawed.  While a healthy dose of independence
            is important, it should be supplemented with a realization
            of the value of interdependence.  Everyone has special
            strengths and weaknesses and where I am strong, I can
            help others.  And where I am lacking, I can be helped by
            others.
    
    I better call my ex sometime soon, I'm not at all sure how I'll take it
    when he develops major symptoms--it's been a year since we spoke and I
    wonder how he's doing.
    
    The politicians and bureaucrats used to always say an HIV diagnosis
    is not a death sentence, but alas I've run across no exceptions yet.
    Somehow we've gotta lick this disease.
    
    -rich
    Mass Storage Engineering OEM D&SG  SHR1-3/O13    DTN:  237-2124
    Work: [email protected]                      508-841-2124
    Home: [email protected]                URL http://www.pn.com

The only point I would add is that in many situations we have a limited 
scope of influence, and in those situations we must recognize that is the 
case.  When my Mom was dying of brain cancer in '89, I knew I couldn't 
cheer up my Dad or my sister, so I didn't look for any "results" of my 
being there for them.  I was just there.  I mean, I would ask questions, 
trying to sense what they wanted to talk about, and then I'd focus on 
getting them to "dump."

I wouldn't lose any sleep about failing to cheer up a terminally-ill 
patient.  I think a lot of us go through life pretty much ignoring our own 
mortality (driving safely, looking both ways, not inserting our fingers 
into electrical outlets, etc. notwithstanding); how could we possibly 
understand how a person whose mortality is in his/her face every day feels, 
let alone expect to cheer that person up?  The psychological burden must be 
truly crippling.  I would think that asking and allowing the sufferer to 
express his/her personal grief in one's presence would be a wonderful gift.

FWIW...

    
    	Sometimes all we can do is listen and love them. Sometimes
    	that is what people need. An ear and a heart. I wouldn't
    	try to cheer up someone who has a terminal disease. If everyone
    	did that..where would they get to talk about their loss, their
    	pain, their fear ? The last note talked about letting them "dump".
    	I think that's very important. I know that when I was in CCU after
    	a mild heart attack and looking at my mortality the people that
    	it was toughest to be with were the ones I was trying to "put
    	on a happy face for" and the ones I was most comfortable with
    	were the ones who let me talk about how I really felt..how
    	terrified I was. How ANGRY I was. 
    
    	I don't know..it just seems to me that we give what we are able
    	to give..and sometimes the most valuable thing is just our
    	listening. Letting the person know that they don't have to be 
    	any other way than how they are..if they are depressed..listen..
    	let them be depressed. That NOT an easy thing to do ! It's
    	not comfortable to hear someone's suffering. 
    
    	I dunno..
    	just ramblin.
    
    	Back to base note...I agree. The only one who ultimately has the
    	responsibility for my health is me. There are no guarantees...
    
    	Life is tough..no one gets out alive !
    
    	Dotty